Suggs craps on Pitino in strib article

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dpodoll68 said:
The fact that making the Tournament in year 7 would be considered overachieving perfectly illustrates the problem.

And I'm not going to tweet at Chet Holmgren - I'm not interested in committing recruiting violations. Plus - adults who tweet at teenagers they don't know are tools.
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Not trying to single you out dpo, but these "Year Seven" references are so stupid. By the way, I'm not one of the posters who will tell a fellow fan that they should or should not post here -- even if they disagree with me on the direction of the program. But you and I both know that a program won't progress linearly due to how rosters are configured. This team had 2.5 players returning this year that had played any significant minutes in this program. It was most likely going to be a step backward from last year's team given how much they lost and how many new players were joining this year. That is part of the reason why some of us are encouraged by this year. But to say "Year Seven" should be this or "Year Eight" should be that is stupid. Tony Bennett's "Year Eleven" will end much differently than his "Year Ten". I don't think he forgot how to coach.

If you want to make an argument that the peaks aren't high enough and the valleys are too low, that is a different argument for me and one that should happen at the end of the year. A body of work argument.....most of us will listen to. But some litmus test for "Year X" doesn't make sense to me.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
We would never be able to refill that hole. If Chet signs here, it would be a once-in-a-blue-moon situation.

I am not making a personal insult when I say this (in no way am I calling you a loser), but that feels a little like a losers mentality.

Isn't it sort of like saying that you shouldn't go on a dream vacation because that first day back at work stinks?
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Did not take it as calling me a loser. We all have a bias and mine is built on programs that do recruit top end kids early and then back out when it becomes apparent that a kid is one and done. now it is a given that the kid may very well pick one of the blue bloods anyway but as a matter of program philosophy they do not want one and done 's. Where this program is at a one and done can make sense but Theo other philosophy of getting more mature players into the upperclass gives you a great chance to play with men against boys, another way to beat the blue bloods, a proven way that works. Others have tried with a one and done without much team success. LSU as a example. To be clear, I think it is great if Chet wants to stay home and play here.
 


golfing18now said:
Not trying to single you out dpo, but these "Year Seven" references are so stupid. By the way, I'm not one of the posters who will tell a fellow fan that they should or should not post here -- even if they disagree with me on the direction of the program. But you and I both know that a program won't progress linearly due to how rosters are configured. This team had 2.5 players returning this year that had played any significant minutes in this program. It was most likely going to be a step backward from last year's team given how much they lost and how many new players were joining this year. That is part of the reason why some of us are encouraged by this year. But to say "Year Seven" should be this or "Year Eight" should be that is stupid. Tony Bennett's "Year Eleven" will end much differently than his "Year Ten". I don't think he forgot how to coach.

If you want to make an argument that the peaks aren't high enough and the valleys are too low, that is a different argument for me and one that should happen at the end of the year. A body of work argument.....most of us will listen to. But some litmus test for "Year X" doesn't make sense to me.
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You're right that the progress is not linear. The reason that "year X" is a valid argument is that if your year 7 isn't up to snuff, and you want to stay employed, you better have earned more rope on the basis of your first 6 years. Pitino has the worst Big Ten winning percentage in school history, so in my mind, he hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt that year 8 and beyond will be any better. Tony Bennett is possibly the best coach in the country and won a national championship 10 months ago, so he's not a good comparison.
 

dpodoll68 said:
You're right that the progress is not linear. The reason that "year X" is a valid argument is that if your year 7 isn't up to snuff, and you want to stay employed, you better have earned more rope on the basis of your first 6 years. Pitino has the worst Big Ten winning percentage in school history, so in my mind, he hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt that year 8 and beyond will be any better. Tony Bennett is possibly the best coach in the country and won a national championship 10 months ago, so he's not a good comparison.
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I agree Bennett is not a good comparison to Pitino. Clearly not from a pedigree/results standpoint. I was using him as an extreme example of linearity in a program.

I think it is reasonable to look back after this year and make your own determination about year 8 and beyond. I can't fault you for that. I won't fault you for that.
 


dpodoll68 said:
If you're a booster and tweeting to prospective recruits - yes, it is absolutely a recruiting violation.
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If you are a booster - best to tweet under a pseudonym... For the rest go up, shake their hand, and tell them they belong in Minnesota!

Gave me an idea - someone needs to do this. Get the minimum booster donation at Wisconsin and then contact every single recruit with highly inappropriate manner - except for the Davisons of the world - those you let go to reinforce the true badger culture :) Anyone up for it?

P.S. obviously a joke so don't get your knickers in a knot... sheesh

(but seriously if someone does it without me knowing I would think it exceedingly funny)
 

golfing18now said:
I agree Bennett is not a good comparison to Pitino. Clearly not from a pedigree/results standpoint. I was using him as an extreme example of linearity in a program.

I think it is reasonable to look back after this year and make your own determination about year 8 and beyond. I can't fault you for that. I won't fault you for that.
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His mind is made up and he will feel no need to look back which is his right. I appreciate your thoughts on the linearity stuff. I focus on whether I feel we are trajecting forward which I feel we are at this point, but true evals need to be done at the end of the season.
 

CPTMidnight said:
If you are a booster - best to tweet under a pseudonym... For the rest go up, shake their hand, and tell them they belong in Minnesota!

Gave me an idea - someone needs to do this. Get the minimum booster donation at Wisconsin and then contact every single recruit with highly inappropriate manner - except for the Davisons of the world - those you let go to reinforce the true badger culture :) Anyone up for it?

P.S. obviously a joke so don't get your knickers in a knot... sheesh

(but seriously if someone does it without me knowing I would think it exceedingly funny)
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Use the pseudonym/alias dpodoll68
 

This thread is the perfect encapsulation of the gopherhole. The title references the importance some put on local high school athletes. The topic throws the coach under the bus. The same unflappable opinions by the same posters I’ve been reading since 2010 are being repeated. The discussion has deviated from the OP and lasted for weeks.

At first I wanted it to die. Now I just want it to persist indefinitely. This is excellent.
 



dpodoll68 said:
You're lecturing me about not caring what people say? How about you try not caring what other people say? Any time anyone says anything negative about Pitino, you have to jump in and complain - including calling them "trolls". As long as people aren't espousing blatant misstatements of fact (for example, that progress is being made) in order to push some BS agenda, posters can say whatever they want. Pitino doesn't need you white-knighting for him on this Gophers-themed message board.
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People are free to think and feel what they want. It just the same old superficial criticism that gets challenged with specific examples of how it isn’t valid. Just like we have pointed out, if the same superficial analysis was done on coach K at this point in his career, he would have been a D3 coach decades ago.
 

alchemy2u said:
People are free to think and feel what they want. It just the same old superficial criticism that gets challenged with specific examples of how it isn’t valid. Just like we have pointed out, if the same superficial analysis was done on coach K at this point in his career, he would have been a D3 coach decades ago.
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You have proven nothing invalid. And the criticism isn't superficial.

Your hackneyed comparison of Krzyzewski at Army (an independent service academy) to Pitino at Minnesota (a Big Ten land grant public school) is asinine, as you've been told many times. Why not compare apples to apples, power team to power team - Pitino's 7th year at Minnesota to Krzyzewski's 7th year at Duke? All Duke did that year was go to the Sweet 16 - are we going to the Sweet 16 this year? For us, that would be the best season in decades. For them, it was probably somewhat of a disappointment after losing in the national championship game the previous year. Oh, and then, after a "subpar" year 7, all he did in year 8 was begin a run of 6 Final Fours (and better) over a 7-year period. Is that what's going to happen here, beginning next year? Six Final Fours in 7 seasons? I assume that's what you think, since you're the one consistently comparing Pitino to one of the greatest coaches in basketball history.
 

alchemy2u said:
People are free to think and feel what they want. It just the same old superficial criticism that gets challenged with specific examples of how it isn’t valid. Just like we have pointed out, if the same superficial analysis was done on coach K at this point in his career, he would have been a D3 coach decades ago.
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Is criticizing Pitino for his horrendous conference record considered superficial criticism and not a valid example?
 
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scools12 said:
Is criticizing Pitino for his horrendous conference record considered superficial criticism and not a valid example?
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Yeah! Im with scools. If Richard Pitino doesn't get his Bennett Krzyzewski, Williams, Knight, Izzo, Rupp, Wooden, game-on in the next few days I am so ready for a mid season tantrum. We can all take votes on who is the worst coach who ever coached(Hint: his last name is Pitino) and rate all his worst recruiting failures (uh, washington). Lets rub everyones noses in after the next loss. I wanna know who can frame up this coach in the most negative light.

We are going to tell the recruits to stay away, demoralize the players and generally make this board miserable by talking endlessly about how bad life is and how if you would just have listened to us we would have hired the next John Wooden and we would have 5 (count em) Kareem Abdul-Jabbars playing on the court at the same time going on a string of national titles that nobody would ever believe. Buuuuttt nobody ever listens, do they??? Totally sucks!

Everyone needs to try it. Who's with me? dpdoll? Spaulding? cjfp? bueller? Nobody expected that at the end of January 2020 we would still be projected to be in the tourny - Pitino is clearly getting a little too uppity with some of these wins and needs to be knocked back down to size. C'mon, lets break things and wreck stuff!
 
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alchemy2u said:
People are free to think and feel what they want. It just the same old superficial criticism that gets challenged with specific examples of how it isn’t valid. Just like we have pointed out, if the same superficial analysis was done on coach K at this point in his career, he would have been a D3 coach decades ago.
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How so on K ? At this point in his 6th year at a power 5 job he went to the championship game, had been past the round of 32 three times and had a far better conference winning %. My opinion is there is not a good metric that puts them in the same category for any comparison. Find a coach who did not win big early that eventually built a elite program. By early it certainly covers 5-6 years because you would have all your own guys, your own culture (that is first) and two classes of upperclassmen. Studied and lived in the experience for decades of how elite programs get built, how long it takes. Still hopeful Pitino breaks the mold and wins big now. Lot of season left. Fully behind that and expect him to earn next year. If he does not do that then it would be hard to look past his body of work. That conference record is a killer. It is a season long report card and honestly i would have thought he could win 55% of his conference games by year 5, building takes times but winning happen when what you built had a solid foundation. But the winning % is one of the worst i have seen after 6 years at a power conference school. I do not care about would have,could have, if or but excuses. Over 6 years every program has things they could apply excuses to. To me that is loser talk.
 

Is criticism of Ptino’s conference record superficial and invalid? For CPTMidnight it appears to be a YES.
 
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USAF said:
Somehow, this poster thinks this is a defense of Pitino, in year 7.
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Its a disaster. making the tourney this year makes it 3 out of four. Has that ever happened? And the one year they missed was probably their best team without the injuries/suspension. Be tough to bring in a new stiff if Pitino pulls that off. Best to hope for the worst - right guys? otherwise framing up the negative just gets tougher. Don't worry, Ive got your back on this stuff.
 
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losing the 2020 and 2021 MN classes is the end for RP. WI is stacked with MN kids...this i just dumb.
 


CPTMidnight said:
Its a disaster. making the tourney this year makes it 3 out of four. Has that ever happened? And the one year they missed was probably their best team without the injuries/suspension. Be tough to bring in a new stiff if Pitino pulls that off. Best to hope for the worst - right guys? otherwise framing up the negative just gets tougher. Don't worry, Ive got your back on this stuff.
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whoosh....

(that's the sound of my post's meaning going over your head)_
 

Spaulding!No! said:
losing the 2020 and 2021 MN classes is the end for RP. WI is stacked with MN kids...this i just dumb.
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Reuvers: good player, would like to have him
Davison: has regressed, not a big miss
Hedstrom: barely plays, project
Wahl: doesn't play a whole lot so far
Carlson: would be nice to have
Crowl: would rather have Mitchell
 

Reuvers would be good next to Daniel. Reuvers averages 4.5 rebounds which is brutal. He has plateaued some.
 

CPTMidnight said:
Its a disaster. making the tourney this year makes it 3 out of four. Has that ever happened? And the one year they missed was probably their best team without the injuries/suspension. Be tough to bring in a new stiff if Pitino pulls that off. Best to hope for the worst - right guys? otherwise framing up the negative just gets tougher. Don't worry, Ive got your back on this stuff.
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These bb seasons must be miserable for those who think Pitino is such an incompetent.
 

ltf said:
These bb seasons must be miserable for those who think Pitino is such an incompetent.
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Basketball season is spectacular for me every single season. Pitino is not incompetent. Good enough to get hired in two D1 jobs. The problem is the competition to be great is extreme. In every profession the great are few.
 

Take this as rumor mill:
I had lunch the other day with a person familiar with Minnehaha Academy. He said that Suggs will likely play overseas. Apparently he was held back two years in school and his ACT scores are so low he would never get into the U. Going to a non-academic school in the middle of nowhere might get him the year he needs. (Just get passing grades in semester one and then nothing in semester two.)
If this is the case it makes sense he doesn't come to UMN and picks a place with prominent basketball, but no academic acumen.

Like I said...rumor mill.
 

MennoSota said:
Take this as rumor mill:
I had lunch the other day with a person familiar with Minnehaha Academy. He said that Suggs will likely play overseas. Apparently he was held back two years in school and his ACT scores are so low he would never get into the U. Going to a non-academic school in the middle of nowhere might get him the year he needs. (Just get passing grades in semester one and then nothing in semester two.)
If this is the case it makes sense he doesn't come to UMN and picks a place with prominent basketball, but no academic acumen.

Like I said...rumor mill.
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he was held back two years in school? how old is he?
 

Lakers612 said:
he was held back two years in school? how old is he?
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I thought he was held back at a young age for athletic purposes. He turns 19 in June. To be fair, there is a ton of data that shows especially with young males that if they have summer birthdays you should hold them back. Age wise he would fit in with his correct grad year.

I do believe in the pro part still though. Think it's 75-80% he goes overseas
 

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