***OFFICIAL MINNESOTA AT ILLINOIS BIG TEN OPENER IN-GAME THREAD!!!***

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Man there really is no excuse for Pitino anymore. His teams cant guard. We will talk until we are blue in the face about offense but Pitino’s defenses have always been the issue. If we are focused on athleticism over IQ than bring in guys who know how to guard. We got a bunch of athletes who cant stay in front of guys are shoot
 

bhk3yx said:
It was our first road game. We played a team ranked 13th that is probably much better than that. One of our lead scorers in Gach, had a terrible night. The team as a whole shot terrible. It was a really bad game. Write it off and move on, the team probably learned a lot tonight so I’m glad it happened.

Reading some of the alarmist posts on here, you’d think we were ranked higher than IL going into this game. The amount of complaining and bitterness is pathetic. It’s one game. It’s becoming almost comical how triggered some are by the hint of a negative outcome and begin rage posting about Pitino or lamenting with doomsday posts about the gophers season being over. We had a very easy 6-0 leading up to conference play. I didn’t expect a smooth transition overnight into Big Ten play, especially with our first game against IL.
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When has Pitino coaches a team that has overachieved? It's a big question because this team is going to be undermanned most nights in the Big Ten. Illinois was just the first game of a really tough stretch. If they have more nights like this, and they will, it's going to make it really tough to turn it around.

I really enjoy hearing Pitino interviewed, especially on KFAN. He is very personable, funny, and honest. But his job is to build a basketball program and that has been a struggle.
 


EG#9 said:
I thought this was the toughest game on the schedule, I didn't expect the Gophers to win. It sucks to lose, but 0-1 with a loss at Illinois is not the end of the world. It's how we lost that is so discouraging. Lots of talk about the Gophers shooting percentage tonight, not much about them giving up 92 points. It was a massacre on both ends of the floor.

Things started unbelievably well for the Gophers from a shooting standpoint with Robbins going 2-2 from 3 and Curry banking in a jumper while Illinois started ice cold from the free throw line. This resulted in an early 18-10 lead for the Gophers. A worst case scenario from that point should have them trailing by no more than 5 entering halftime. What happened from there was utterly ridiculous. Illinois gets the next 6 points. Timeout Pitino. Illinois ties the game then a media timeout. So it's an 8-0 run at that point. It gets to a 14 or 16-0 run for an Illinois lead of 24-18 or 26-18 before Eric Curry(!) hits a top of the key 3. Then it gets to a 22-3 run where it's now 32-21 Illinois and Pitino still hasn't used another timeout! We were an Eric Curry 3 away from a 22-0 run against us. We were taking terrible rushed shots, giving up offensive boards left and right, and generally getting our butts kicked and Pitino just let it go. What makes this more concerning is there was no crowd, so they shouldn't be "shook". The guys can clearly hear instructions from the bench, yet nothing changed during this run and there was no second timeout...this leads me to believe Pitino simply had no answers?
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Toughest game????

We play at Iowa coming up. Did you see what Cockburn did to us?? Garza can do that, and unlike Cockburn hes actually got versatility to his game and is surrounded by 3-4 elite shooters.

Illinois is really good but match up wise I don't think they are the toughest. Cockburn is an impossible individual match up with our complete lack of post players but most of these teams are gonna have that crazy mismatch. Illinois has been pretty bad defensively in other games ive watched.

If we don't shore up the rebounding and low post play. Garza might have another 30 pt half. Rutgers is gonna just play volleyball with the backboard until they score. Sparty will pound us inside.
 

Norman Dale: "How many times are we going to pass before we shoot?"

Team: "Four"

Coach Dale: (louder) "How Many?"

Team (louder) "Four!"

Coach Dale: really loud) "How Many?"

Team: (really loud): "Four!"

Coach Dale: "Four Times!"

Do you suppose Pitino has never seen "Hoosiers?"
 

3399 said:
I think what was most disappointing was how early they mailed it in. First conference game of the year and they mailed it in at the first sign of adversity.
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This post write here is my most disappointing take on Pitino. This has been a theme. I don't know if there's data to back this up, but it sure feels like once we're down 10-15+ that score just continues to run up. I'm not counting when we score on their backups in the last minute or two.

It's overall lack of mental toughness.
 

Pitino just let the dumpster burn tonight. Gophers were just wildly overmatched. They will need to dramatically change their approach on offense--and it starts with getting your PG to prioritize doing PG things--to stay out of the cellar in the B1G.
 



golf said:
Took a step forward:
Robbins, Curry, Kalscheur, Mutaf

Treaded water:
Johnson, Williams

Took a step back:
Carr, Mashburn, Ihnen

Focus on next game:
Gach
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Ihnen had a horrible shooting night, however the rest of his game was sound, imo.
 

Northeastgopher said:
A common defense of Pitino seems to be that we have a bad shooting night and thats not his fault. By now there is enough game data to conclude we are a horrific three point shooting team, so why isn’t our offense being adjusted accordingly? Having guys stand around on the perimeter like the Houston Rockets while Carr tries to be James Harden doesn’t work for most teams, especially when we shoot 29 percent from three.

A well coached team would utilize the above average athleticism of the the team and emphasize cutting and finishing at the rim. Ihnen for example is used as a spot up shooter frequently. The dude is 6,9 with legit length, but it doesn’t look like his dribble drive game was developed at all over the offseason. I don’t even think I’ve seen him dunk yet. What a waste of talent.
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This.

A bad shooting night, ok. A consistently bad shooting team? For years?
 

You can't win if you shoot less than 30% and allow the other team to shoot better than 50%. - Captain Obvious
 

3399 said:
When has Pitino coaches a team that has overachieved? It's a big question because this team is going to be undermanned most nights in the Big Ten. Illinois was just the first game of a really tough stretch. If they have more nights like this, and they will, it's going to make it really tough to turn it around.

I really enjoy hearing Pitino interviewed, especially on KFAN. He is very personable, funny, and honest. But his job is to build a basketball program and that has been a struggle.
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I would say they overachieved in year 1 and year 3, but those seasons seem like forever ago.
 



Consistent bad shooting for players who are expected to be Division 1 level is indicative of a bad offensive scheme putting players in poor position to shoot when they are given the opportunity. This is indicative of either a offensive scheme or a communication problem. Either way it's on the COACH!

Fix it or get fired.
 

The craziest thing to me is Pitino's roster. He has never been able to build a deep roster. We are in year 8 and we needed THREE transfers and we are still going to finish in the bottom of the conference. What's worse is what are we going to do next year??
 

Otis said:
Consistent bad shooting for players who are expected to be Division 1 level is indicative of a bad offensive scheme putting players in poor position to shoot when they are given the opportunity. This is indicative of either a offensive scheme or a communication problem. Either way it's on the COACH!

Fix it or get fired.
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I have to agree. That was terrible, awful basketball last night and that is on the coach. Carr is not a point guard or at least he is not playing like one. He is strictly play for his own shots.
 

BarnBurner said:
Ihnen had a horrible shooting night, however the rest of his game was sound, imo.
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Yeah, will be really interesting how he develops as the year progresses. See glimpses from all of these guys that make me think this team has a chance to be very good, but probly not illinois good. Seemed like we just lost confidence in ourselves once illinois punched back. Started quick shooting which led to a lot of runouts. When we got a chance to setup, I thought our half court defense was pretty good other than the kofi mismatch and gach mistakes.
 

We usually rank 10th or 11th in the conference in defense and we usually finish in a average of about 10th in the standings. The one year we finished 4th, we were top 5 in defense. Illinois, simply by playing their starters the whole game would have soared way over 100 ! 48-83 is a terrible record but worse is a winning % of under 10 % when giving up more than 75. More than half our losses and hardly any of our wins have come playing the style we attempt. We have defensive possessions where we give up a quality shot very early in the shot clock and on offense we take poor quality shots early in the possession. I am all for a early shot if it is a high quality look.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Norman Dale: "How many times are we going to pass before we shoot?"

Team: "Four"

Coach Dale: (louder) "How Many?"

Team (louder) "Four!"

Coach Dale: really loud) "How Many?"

Team: (really loud): "Four!"

Coach Dale: "Four Times!"

Do you suppose Pitino has never seen "Hoosiers?"
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Carr thinks that the "picket fence play" is where he dribbles around and everyone else stands there like fence posts. Pitino has to do better than this. That was truly as ugly as it gets on offense.
 

bga1 said:
Carr thinks that the "picket fence play" is where he dribbles around and everyone else stands there like fence posts. Pitino has to do better than this. That was truly as ugly as it gets on offense.
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The team will grade a D for offense but a F for defense. Individually and as a team that defense is atrocious. Gach, Carr will grade the lowest because their breakdowns lead to total team breakdown. We are the worst on the post double, we are the worst at the hard hedge. Simple ball fakes cause many of our guys to rise up and thus be off balance thus allowing drives, straight line and or easy entry passes. We will win one in a thousand giving up 92.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I don't really think the pick and roll part of it is the problem, tons of offenses start with that action. The problem is that's the entirety of the offense. Either that or an outdated high-low between two bigs.

The big problem is the other three guys. They aren't moving, creating space, and are rarely cutting. When they are, it's often some weird action where the 4 goes to the block (thus bringing another post defender down low).

The other problem is that Carr dribbles way too much. He should get into the action and start moving the ball around. We would be a much better team if he dribbled 30% less. In his defense, no one is moving or cutting, so there aren't many better options to pass.

Our offense sucks.
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That is Pitino's style of play and always has been, if you get superior players it works, if not it looks like yesterdays game, my guess is it takes at least two that can dominate to be somewhat successful, Carr and Oturu. I will argue that Greenlee was a point guard, Pitino had no use for that in his offense so he is gone, now you have Carr without Oturu and very few options. I really don't see a PG on this team to facilitate an offense that gets into sets and involves five guys.
 

60's Guy said:
Complain about offense all you want. Our number one deficiency is post defense. We cannot defend the post for several years. Doesn’t matter who, they have no clue how to defend the post.
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We also don't defend the 3 pt line well either. I think it's fair to say defense in general is awful lol
 

jovs said:
That is Pitino's style of play and always has been, if you get superior players it works, if not it looks like yesterdays game, my guess is it takes at least two that can dominate to be somewhat successful, Carr and Oturu. I will argue that Greenlee was a point guard, Pitino had no use for that in his offense so he is gone, now you have Carr without Oturu and very few options. I really don't see a PG on this team to facilitate an offense that gets into sets and involves five guys.
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We have a decent offense when we have superior players in spite of the system. We aren't seeing a lack of fit right now. The scariest thing is that we aren't even seeing a lack of execution. We are seeing an atrocious offense that can occasionally be masked by NBA talent.
 

builtbadgers said:
We usually rank 10th or 11th in the conference in defense and we usually finish in a average of about 10th in the standings. The one year we finished 4th, we were top 5 in defense. Illinois, simply by playing their starters the whole game would have soared way over 100 ! 48-83 is a terrible record but worse is a winning % of under 10 % when giving up more than 75. More than half our losses and hardly any of our wins have come playing the style we attempt. We have defensive possessions where we give up a quality shot very early in the shot clock and on offense we take poor quality shots early in the possession. I am all for a early shot if it is a high quality look.
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This piece of data and the fact Pitino cannot repeat it, is the only reason needed by people who want to move on from him should need. Get over the MN recruiting and that offense. Focus on this point of data. This is controllable and a true sign of our staff's ability to teach and gameplan.
 


EG#9 said:
I thought this was the toughest game on the schedule, I didn't expect the Gophers to win. It sucks to lose, but 0-1 with a loss at Illinois is not the end of the world. It's how we lost that is so discouraging. Lots of talk about the Gophers shooting percentage tonight, not much about them giving up 92 points. It was a massacre on both ends of the floor.

Things started unbelievably well for the Gophers from a shooting standpoint with Robbins going 2-2 from 3 and Curry banking in a jumper while Illinois started ice cold from the free throw line. This resulted in an early 18-10 lead for the Gophers. A worst case scenario from that point should have them trailing by no more than 5 entering halftime. What happened from there was utterly ridiculous. Illinois gets the next 6 points. Timeout Pitino. Illinois ties the game then a media timeout. So it's an 8-0 run at that point. It gets to a 14 or 16-0 run for an Illinois lead of 24-18 or 26-18 before Eric Curry(!) hits a top of the key 3. Then it gets to a 22-3 run where it's now 32-21 Illinois and Pitino still hasn't used another timeout! We were an Eric Curry 3 away from a 22-0 run against us. We were taking terrible rushed shots, giving up offensive boards left and right, and generally getting our butts kicked and Pitino just let it go. What makes this more concerning is there was no crowd, so they shouldn't be "shook". The guys can clearly hear instructions from the bench, yet nothing changed during this run and there was no second timeout...this leads me to believe Pitino simply had no answers?
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Do you think Pitino is the type of coach that has answers, to begin with? His MO to me seems to be "get the best guys here, and let them play".
 

manderson1984 said:
This piece of data and the fact Pitino cannot repeat it, is the only reason needed by people who want to move on from him should need. Get over the MN recruiting and that offense. Focus on this point of data. This is controllable and a true sign of our staff's ability to teach and gameplan.
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Exactly. Volumes of data for decades on how unsuccessful programs became successful in a sustainable way. You must play elite defense. In every single case of a power 6 program that rose from mediocrity to conference championships, to multiple 30 win seasons and on and on, they played great defense. Every great coach thinks this way. Some are simply special teachers, that is why they are special. Teams will be what they can learn and execute. Pre-scouting in recruitring, recruiting are a huge part of what will fit what you teach. Then how well they do what is taught and how well you do it as a team. Few can do this at a high level, that is how special they are. In taking down blue bloods, who always have better talent, cheaters and rising above them from mediocrity is extraordinary. Most fans of this program would be thrilled by 11-9 records year after year, a trip to the sweet 16 every 4-5 years. I want conference titles, conference tourney titles, final 4's.
 

Last year and now this year, you've created an identity on offense that has evolved into "PG tries to score, many times taking bad shots, dribbles the ball flat, passes sometimes, rarely sets up a teammate". Easily called out by the TV crew last night.

Defense is "bad" to "very bad" ... many on the team "look the part", but very few are willing to really work on that end of the court. Of the few that are willing to work, many of them lack the fundamentals of a good defender let alone understand how to play defense as a team. Again, easily called out by the TV crew last night.

This is not a quick fix.
 

jovs said:
That is Pitino's style of play and always has been, if you get superior players it works, if not it looks like yesterdays game, my guess is it takes at least two that can dominate to be somewhat successful, Carr and Oturu. I will argue that Greenlee was a point guard, Pitino had no use for that in his offense so he is gone, now you have Carr without Oturu and very few options. I really don't see a PG on this team to facilitate an offense that gets into sets and involves five guys.
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We weren't successful last year so 2 players isn't enough
 

That game was ugly, I turned it off in second half. Their guard and big man just dominated our players. Everyone ragging on Pitino but I don't think there is anything he could do, they had superior talent. We need a couple guys getting hot from 3 to have a chance against them.
 

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