Shooter: Minnesota, conceptually, has considered either renovating Williams Arena or building a new arena in the parking lots north of arena

[SHGopher]

Different subject, but I'm not sure ice is at a premium in MN. Prime time might be. MN teams pay about 1/3 of what hockey programs in other states pay for ice. It's a rite of passage for every community in MN to have ICE. Can't get prime time or the times you want, just go cry to your City and get another sheet built that is a huge money drain subsidized by the taxpayers. If only basketball was treated the same way.

Hockey out east is astronomical in price, for rich people.

We the common folks of Midwest Minnesota, especially up north in places like Roseau, support affordable ice for all kids. This is Minnesota where hockey is in our culture and we carry pitchforks. I wonder how much the expensive parks in the Twin Cities cost. And the $1.8 million the state of Minnesota gave to the Taste of Minnesota for Minneapolis.

My kids graduated out of the nest but I am happy to pay my school district taxes and related taxea because I don't pull the ladder up after I use it

 

[MaxyJR1]

Hockey out east is astronomical in price, for rich people.

We the common folks of Midwest Minnesota, especially up north in places like Roseau, support affordable ice for all kids. This is Minnesota where hockey is in our culture and we carry pitchforks. I wonder how much the expensive parks in the Twin Cities cost. And the $1.8 million the state of Minnesota gave to the Taste of Minnesota for Minneapolis.

My kids graduated out of the nest but I am happy to pay my school district taxes and related taxea because I don't pull the ladder up after I use it

I support it all and work in the industry. I just find it funny how ice rinks are treated here in MN. Brooklyn Park wants to convert their rink to sports that are supported by their community but the Hockey people (most aren't residents) are outraged.

Communities spend $11M to build an ice arena, but God forbid they spend $1M to light an athletic complex. We'll build an ice center, but a community center? No way!

 

[SHGopher]

I support it all and work in the industry. I just find it funny how ice rinks are treated here in MN. Brooklyn Park wants to convert their rink to sports that are supported by their community but the Hockey people (most aren't residents) are outraged.

Communities spend $11M to build an ice arena, but God forbid they spend $1M to light an athletic complex. We'll build an ice center, but a community center? No way!

I do empathize with what you wrote. BP probably should convert if the budget is one or the other. Plenty of truth to go around.

 

[disco]

Different subject, but I'm not sure ice is at a premium in MN. Prime time might be. MN teams pay about 1/3 of what hockey programs in other states pay for ice. It's a rite of passage for every community in MN to have ICE. Can't get prime time or the times you want, just go cry to your City and get another sheet built that is a huge money drain subsidized by the taxpayers. If only basketball was treated the same way.

To be fair, every school building in the state has a basketball court, if not multiple ones.

 

[disco]

I support it all and work in the industry. I just find it funny how ice rinks are treated here in MN. Brooklyn Park wants to convert their rink to sports that are supported by their community but the Hockey people (most aren't residents) are outraged.

Communities spend $11M to build an ice arena, but God forbid they spend $1M to light an athletic complex. We'll build an ice center, but a community center? No way!

Hockey in Minnesota = Football in Texas.

 

[MaxyJR1]

To be fair, every school building in the state has a basketball court, if not multiple ones.

Absolutely as is should be. However the facilities rarely match the level of hockey, are split between multiple sports and are not all the same size.

Basketball associations typically have 45+ teams in the metro and schools don't have enough courts. Teams practice at churches on carpet, in 1/2 gyms. Hockey has all the same size sheets of ice and all games are played on the same sheets. Most associations don't get time in HS guys because there isn't any time to be had.

 

[disco]

Absolutely as is should be. However the facilities rarely match the level of hockey, are split between multiple sports and are not all the same size.

Basketball associations typically have 45+ teams in the metro and schools don't have enough courts. Teams practice at churches on carpet, in 1/2 gyms. Hockey has all the same size sheets of ice and all games are played on the same sheets. Most associations don't get time in HS guys because there isn't any time to be had.

Oh tell me about it with court time. My son plays SW league. He would have been borderline to make traveling, but he is just in it for fun. His team gets the WORST practice slots. They have practice tonight from 8:30-10 (he's at the Gopher hockey game, so he's missing it). We couldn't go to a single varsity game in December because he had practice during every home game too.

 

[MaxyJR1]

Oh tell me about it with court time. My son plays SW league. He would have been borderline to make traveling, but he is just in it for fun. His team gets the WORST practice slots. They have practice tonight from 8:30-10 (he's at the Gopher hockey game, so he's missing it). We couldn't go to a single varsity game in December because he had practice during every home game too.

We practice once a week in a 30x50 cafeteria with metal backboards, no lines, and get 60 minutes at 8:30 at night. 9 middle schoolers and two hoops.

 

[disco]

We practice once a week in a 30x50 cafeteria with metal backboards, no lines, and get 60 minutes at 8:30 at night. 9 middle schoolers and two hoops.

We've had a couple like that too. Cafeteria at a private school at 8:30. I get it.

 

[PMWinSTP]

We practice once a week in a 30x50 cafeteria with metal backboards, no lines, and get 60 minutes at 8:30 at night. 9 middle schoolers and two hoops.

Grew up in a small city in southern MN. Had five (now six) full sized indoor basketball courts when I was growing up. We played HS hockey at a neighboring city's ice rink, practiced outdoors 50% of the time. Finally built an indoor rink in the mid 1990s.

 

[Some guy]

I am in favor of renovation over new arena simply because it will guy the football tailgate if you lose a couple of lots

 

[GopherJake]

How many times has that happened in Gopher history?

There's no need for anything larger than 10k seats.

Maybe you should look it up to see how wrong you are.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Maybe you should look it up to see how wrong you are.

I'm wrong about the Gophers being rarely a top 10 team?

They've finished in the AP top 10 five times in history, and one of them 'doesn't count'. And that was the only time that's happened in the last 41 years.

 

[GopherJake]

I'm wrong about the Gophers being rarely a top 10 team?

They've finished in the AP top 10 five times in history, and one of them 'doesn't count'. And that was the only time that's happened in the last 41 years.

You’re wrong about attendance. We’ve averaged over 14k fans dozens of times. In the 90s, they were basically sold out on season tickets alone.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

You’re wrong about attendance. We’ve averaged over 14k fans dozens of times. In the 90s, they were basically sold out on season tickets alone.

Maybe you should read the last few words of what I responded to. I wasn't arguing about the attendance.

Just because they averaged that in a crappy arena, doesn't mean they should, or need to build another one that large. 10k is perfect for college basketball in today's world.

 

[GopherJake]

Maybe you should read the last few words of what I responded to. I wasn't arguing about the attendance.

Just because they averaged that in a crappy arena, doesn't mean they should, or need to build another one that large. 10k is perfect for college basketball in today's world.

Disagree. The Barn would be packed if the team was even close to consistently competitive. There’s no rule when building a new facility that it has to be screwed up.

 

[MplsGopher]

Honestly a shared arena with the Wolves probably makes sense, even though no one wants that.

Sure, as much as playing at the Metrodome made sense?

 

[MplsGopher]

I see a number of people saying get rid of the Pavilion.

If you do that - what do you do with the Volleyball program? from what I hear, the Pav is exactly the size that VB wants, for creating a better atmosphere at matches. moving VB into Williams would mean a half-full building - not to mention creating issues for practice time, etc.

I know VB was down a little this last season, but over the years, it has been one of the more successful athletic programs at MN. so the VB community would kick up a ruckus if they lost "their" arena.

It's really not that hard, you make the new arena have a "lower bowl only" configuration where you use black tents to make it seem/feel that the upper bowl doesn't even exist. Then the full open config is for major sports or any event where they know they're selling more than 5-6k tickets.

 

[MplsGopher]

I am sure those would be obstacles, but I doubt insurmountable. I am guessing the number of schools that have Men's & Women's teams with multiple ice arenas rinks is rather limited. Just guessing, there.

Would truly be curious how many schools in the country maintain multiple gameday ice venues, period. Not talking practice rinks that happen to have 500 seats.

 

[MplsGopher]

The Barn would be packed if the team was even close to consistently competitive.

Average ticket prices only need to be > than 1.4% higher to net more revenue from a sold out 10k vs a sold out 14k.

 

[USAF]

Average ticket prices only need to be > than 1.4% higher to net more revenue from a sold out 10k vs a sold out 14k.

Maybe put some thought into a post before posting stupid shit like this. An adult should be able to look at your claim and immediately question your math. It's that bad.

14,000 x $50 = $700,000
10000 x $50.7 = $507,000

Average ticket prices need to be greater than 40% higher to net more revenue from a 10000 vs 14000 seat venue.

14,000 x $50 = $700,000
10,000 x $70 = $700,000

Not to mention selling more concessions in a 14000 seat vs 10000 seat venue.

Of course, construction, maintenance, and operating costs would be higher in the 14000 seat venue.

But that wasn't the claim.

 

[GFBfan]

Maybe put some thought into a post before posting stupid shit like this. An adult should be able to look at your claim and immediately question your math. It's that bad.

14,000 x $50 = $700,000
10000 x $50.7 = $507,000

Average ticket prices need to be greater than 40% higher to net more revenue from a 10000 vs 14000 seat venue.

14,000 x $50 = $700,000
10,000 x $70 = $700,000

Not to mention selling more concessions in a 14000 seat vs 10000 seat venue.

Of course, construction, maintenance, and operating costs would be higher in the 14000 seat venue.

But that wasn't the claim.

Math is hard!

 

[Dave H]

I am sure those would be obstacles, but I doubt insurmountable. I am guessing the number of schools that have Men's & Women's teams with multiple ice arenas rinks is rather limited. Just guessing, there.

Taking the Women out of Ridder is an awful idea if that is what you are suggesting. They don't draw enough fans to play at Mariucci it was a disaster when they tried. Ridder is the perfect size for a Women's program.

 

[Dave H]

It's really not that hard, you make the new arena have a "lower bowl only" configuration where you use black tents to make it seem/feel that the upper bowl doesn't even exist. Then the full open config is for major sports or any event where they know they're selling more than 5-6k tickets.

This take is so awful it actually is almost as bad as your terrible math in your other post. Have you ever been to an event where they tent off part of the arena? If you have you know it doesn't make it feel like the arena is smaller, it makes it look like you couldn't sell enough tickets. Plus it doesn't change the atmosphere either because you are still 5k in a 10k stadium.

Good lord, if I had a nickel for every one of your terrible takes around here I could fund a new arena myself.

 

[Ope3]

Taking the Women out of Ridder is an awful idea if that is what you are suggesting. They don't draw enough fans to play at Mariucci it was a disaster when they tried. Ridder is the perfect size for a Women's program.

I don't think it would be that awful to begin with. Lots of collegiate athletic teams in various sports are forced to play in largely empty arenas. Not really that much of a hardship, especially with the reduced sized ice sheet.

While I do realize it could be a negative aspect for Women's hockey, if it results in a net positive aspect for Men's & Women's basketball and is neutral (or close) to Wrestling, Gymnastics & Volleyball...then so be it.

Hoops needs to help pay the freight.

Side note on Mariucci, I made my first trip there of the season on Friday night. While not an overwhelming difference from a spectator standpoint, I like the reduction from Olympic size ice to closer of an NHL style. Makes it feel slightly more cozy.

 

[MaxyJR1]

Disagree. The Barn would be packed if the team was even close to consistently competitive. There’s no rule when building a new facility that it has to be screwed up.

Article today in the Athletic about Iowa Men's basketball struggling to draw. They average just about 9,000 this year and Football, Wrestling, and Women's basketball all sold out. They have been to 5 straight NCAA tournaments and finished top 5 for 4 straight years. They won the B1G tournament last year and are near or at the top of the league in scoring each year.

Sometimes things become stale and need an update. Iowa too is looking to renovate Carver Hawkeye arena and people want them to move the student section to better seats.

They also are battling the Katlyn Clark phenomenon this year.

 

[Dave H]

I don't think it would be that awful to begin with. Lots of collegiate athletic teams in various sports are forced to play in largely empty arenas. Not really that much of a hardship, especially with the reduced sized ice sheet.

While I do realize it could be a negative aspect for Women's hockey, if it results in a net positive aspect for Men's & Women's basketball and is neutral (or close) to Wrestling, Gymnastics & Volleyball...then so be it.

Hoops needs to help pay the freight.

Side note on Mariucci, I made my first trip there of the season on Friday night. While not an overwhelming difference from a spectator standpoint, I like the reduction from Olympic size ice to closer of an NHL style. Makes it feel slightly more cozy.

Most mens teams in hockey dont play in arenas as big as Mariucci. I would bet most arenas are closer to 5k than 10k. It is just a different animal. Ridder is an advantage because of its size and it being specifically for the Women's Team.

Have you ever gone to a non-Gopher game/Big School HS Hockey game at Mariucci? It can be a painful experience. Even at 40% capacity (like say an NCAA Regional in the non Gopher Game) it is a friggin library. You can hear people talking across the arena. Women's hockey won't even get those numbers (I remember when they tried it was terrible) so it will be exponentially worse.

If you want to find a way to make Ridder multi-use (or maybe it already is I never looked into that) I am all for that. But sacrificing the Women's Hockey Team arena just to get rid of the Pav and renovate Williams is a bad plan and will go over like a lead balloon.

 

[soneillumn]

Would truly be curious how many schools in the country maintain multiple gameday ice venues, period. Not talking practice rinks that happen to have 500 seats.

To my knowledge, Wisconsin is the only other one with separate men's and women's rinks.

 

[Ope3]

Most mens teams in hockey dont play in arenas as big as Mariucci. I would bet most arenas are closer to 5k than 10k. It is just a different animal. Ridder is an advantage because of its size and it being specifically for the Women's Team.

Have you ever gone to a non-Gopher game/Big School HS Hockey game at Mariucci? It can be a painful experience. Even at 40% capacity (like say an NCAA Regional in the non Gopher Game) it is a friggin library. You can hear people talking across the arena. Women's hockey won't even get those numbers (I remember when they tried it was terrible) so it will be exponentially worse.

If you want to find a way to make Ridder multi-use (or maybe it already is I never looked into that) I am all for that. But sacrificing the Women's Hockey Team arena just to get rid of the Pav and renovate Williams is a bad plan and will go over like a lead balloon.

Not only have I been to "non-Gopher/Big School HS Hockey games" that have drawn less than 40% capacity, I have been Gopher Men's hockey games that have drawn less than 40% at Mariucci.

No, the fan experience is not great. I'm not arguing otherwise.

Do I think it would hinder the Gopher Women's Hockey program from being able to compete for WCHA and NCAA titles? No, I don't. Even if it does, if it's for the greater good of the Gopher Athletic program, I would be totally fine with it.

Having said all that, I do not think it is a likely scenario but everything should at least be considered.

 

[Ope3]

To my knowledge, Wisconsin is the only other one with separate men's and women's rinks.

And the Badgers presumably have to do that because their Men's hockey team shares their arena with Men's & Women's basketball.