Shooter: Minnesota, conceptually, has considered either renovating Williams Arena or building a new arena in the parking lots north of arena

I’m on the fence whether or not a smaller arena would be good. It’s hard to say whether cbb attendance will remain lower than in the past. It it suddenly goes back up then it’s harder for people that don’t live near it to get tickets to the occasional game. Meanwhile we get less and less games televised.
There's more games televised, from the standpoint of they make you double-pay for them. You have to have cable and _____+ to watch them all.

Would rather have the arena packed at 7k than half-full at 14k. You can make ticket prices higher too, more revenue.

I would vote smaller. But that's just me and those voting for larger have valid points too.
 

FWIW - seating capacity of B1G arenas
1. OSU 18,809
2. Maryland 17,950
3. Indiana 17,472
4. Wisconsin 17,249
5. Illinois 16,618
6. Iowa 15,500
7. PSU 15,261
8. Nebraska 15,147
9. Purdue 14,848
10. MSU 14,797
11. Gophers 14,625
12. Michigan 12,721
13. Nwestern 8,117
14. Rutgers 8,000
 

I’m an architectural appreciator. I can announce that I appreciate buildings. I’ve always said I love the Barn. We need something new. Biggest risk in my perspective is losing the intimacy of the upper deck especially. I don’t know of any modern arenas that have replicated the sight lines and proximity of our overhanging upper deck seats.

I know the smaller arenas are the rage. My biggest fear of them is reducing supply and increasing prices and keeping a lot of people out. Advantage of cavernous arenas is a reasonable price most nights.
Ironically, we have the structural ability to build the same kind of overhang arrangement these days without the sight-obstructing columns, but the architects and engineers rarely if ever go that route. Not that it would be cheap, but back to my adage that, if you're in for a penny, you're in for a pound. I don't think of it as scope creep if you're realizing value. How often do we build one of these anyway? Screw keeping up with the Joneses; we should challenge the Joneses to keep up with us!
 

Ironically, we have the structural ability to build the same kind of overhang arrangement these days without the sight-obstructing columns, but the architects and engineers rarely if ever go that route. Not that it would be cheap, but back to my adage that, if you're in for a penny, you're in for a pound. I don't think of it as scope creep if you're realizing value. How often do we build one of these anyway? Screw keeping up with the Joneses; we should challenge the Joneses to keep up with us!
Would you still feel this way if they jacked up ticket prices to help pay for it. Always easy to spend others money.
 

FWIW - seating capacity of B1G arenas
1. OSU 18,809
2. Maryland 17,950
3. Indiana 17,472
4. Wisconsin 17,249
5. Illinois 16,618
6. Iowa 15,500
7. PSU 15,261
8. Nebraska 15,147
9. Purdue 14,848
10. MSU 14,797
11. Gophers 14,625
12. Michigan 12,721
13. Nwestern 8,117
14. Rutgers 8,000
Now do the average tickets sold and tickets scanned.
 


Ben Johnson was on KFAN this morning and mentioned how Baylor got it right by building the smaller stadium. I wouldn’t be surprised if there is a lot of talk within the program about reducing the seating count to add more modern amenities and suites.
  • The TV camera angle is awful.
  • The student section behind the benches is tiny.
  • The stands are too far away from the floor because of course they had to have two rows of courtside seating followed by an empty walkway to separate those people with money from the commoners.
  • It's smaller because it's in Waco, we should be able to easily fill 14000 seats if we had a top ten team.
 

Would you still feel this way if they jacked up ticket prices to help pay for it. Always easy to spend others money.
It's the approach I take with anything I myself buy or build, and I feel ownership of this situation.

First of all, our ticket prices are already near the top end of the league, so if the question is whether I'd tolerate high ticket prices to sustain the program and the department, the answer is already yes. In practical terms, though, there's only so high you can raise ticket prices and still have anyone left in the building to cheer your team, so what you suggest is an impracticality. In real life, things like this are funded and financed from a variety of sources, and that would be the case here, too.

I see the new football stadium as an example of something that was done well. It's not extravagant, but we didn't go Metrodome on the deal either. I personally think it's one of the finest facilities in the country to watch a college football game, and we should do no less well when it comes to the new basketball arena (whether that happens now or in 100 years).
 

Now do the average tickets sold and tickets scanned.
the discussion was over whether the U of MN should consider a smaller facility.

I was trying to point out that they already have one of the smaller facilities in the conference.

but just for fun, let's list them by when they were opened - starting from oldest to newest

1. Gophers - 1928
2. Nwestern - 1952
3. Illinois - 1963
4. Purdue - 1967
4. Michigan - 1967
6. Indiana - 1971
7. Rutgers - 1977
8. Iowa - 1983
9. Michigan St. - 1989
10. Penn St. - 1996
11. Ohio St. - 1998
11. Wisconsin - 1998
13. Maryland - 2002
14. Nebraska - 2013
 




the discussion was over whether the U of MN should consider a smaller facility.

I was trying to point out that they already have one of the smaller facilities in the conference.

but just for fun, let's list them by when they were opened - starting from oldest to newest

1. Gophers - 1928
2. Nwestern - 1952
3. Illinois - 1963
4. Purdue - 1967
4. Michigan - 1967
6. Indiana - 1971
7. Rutgers - 1977
8. Iowa - 1983
9. Michigan St. - 1989
10. Penn St. - 1996
11. Ohio St. - 1998
11. Wisconsin - 1998
13. Maryland - 2002
14. Nebraska - 2013
I personally like the barn. I was at Nebraska last year for a game. The arena is beautiful, but I didn’t feel close to the game like I do in my seat at the barn. It’s only a two hour game it’s not like you live there. I sat in a plane seat just recently with less room for three hours. I would do with getting rid of all of the bench seating and adding urinals in the bathroom and maybe a few things here and there but I’m OK with the way it is.
 



How many times has that happened in Gopher history?

There's no need for anything larger than 10k seats.
I'd have to look it up, but in the first 10 years we had our season tickets, the building was routinely sold out, and for a time, there was a waiting list for season tickets. Capacity was about 16,000 the first four of those years and then the current 14,000+ thereafter.

That was admittedly 30 years ago, and fewer people want to go out these days, but I felt compelled to answer your question. The real issue is that, when that place was full, it was an extremely difficult place for an opposing team to win in. It was a huge factor in the program's win/loss success in those days. In terms of goals and objectives for a new or remodeled arena, preserving the ability to have that kind of atmosphere would be near the top of my list.
 



I just don’t see how they can update Williams with the current sites constraints.

A total tear down would be required to cantilever some of the building over university and the other street(Washington?). And O think that is what’s required.

Minimum seating would have to be 12k
 


Ironically, we have the structural ability to build the same kind of overhang arrangement these days without the sight-obstructing columns, but the architects and engineers rarely if ever go that route. Not that it would be cheap, but back to my adage that, if you're in for a penny, you're in for a pound. I don't think of it as scope creep if you're realizing value. How often do we build one of these anyway? Screw keeping up with the Joneses; we should challenge the Joneses to keep up with us!
I think they can find a firm that can do a reno that keeps those elements and adds those modern conveniences we want.
 

I just don’t see how they can update Williams with the current sites constraints.

A total tear down would be required to cantilever some of the building over university and the other street(Washington?). And O think that is what’s required.

Minimum seating would have to be 12k
Cantilever...or bridge. 4th Street could go through a tunnel of sorts. A parking ramp across the street could deliver people via a skyway level or the like. You could do something similar over University. But the cost would be high, and you'd have the same physical constraint on ground level as you do today. I do question whether the streets and their locations are so sacred that you need to bridge or cantilever over them.
 

How many times has that happened in Gopher history?

There's no need for anything larger than 10k seats.
Just since 1990, the Gophers averaged over 14,000 in a season nine times. Over 12,000 22 times. But I'm not sure those days are ever coming back. I think 12K is certainly enough. Perhaps 10.
 

I'd like to see it remain with a major renovation of the interior.
Turn most if not all the obstructed view areas into suites on the lower level and concessions/restrooms on the upper level. No idea what that would do to capacity.
Get rid of Bench seats. Would think you could get or would want it to have 10 to 12 thousand.
I also think having the floored turned would make the obstructed areas less prevalent, but not sure that is a possibility.
 





the discussion was over whether the U of MN should consider a smaller facility.

I was trying to point out that they already have one of the smaller facilities in the conference.

but just for fun, let's list them by when they were opened - starting from oldest to newest

1. Gophers - 1928
2. Nwestern - 1952
3. Illinois - 1963
4. Purdue - 1967
4. Michigan - 1967
6. Indiana - 1971
7. Rutgers - 1977
8. Iowa - 1983
9. Michigan St. - 1989
10. Penn St. - 1996
11. Ohio St. - 1998
11. Wisconsin - 1998
13. Maryland - 2002
14. Nebraska - 2013
Also good info, thanks for sharing.

But also goes directly to my point: most Big Ten teams have not even had a recent opportunity to "right size" their arenas for average attendance, even if they wanted to!
 

I just don’t see how they can update Williams with the current sites constraints.

A total tear down would be required to cantilever some of the building over university and the other street(Washington?). And O think that is what’s required.

Minimum seating would have to be 12k
If I had a magic genie, I would completely tear down Williams and the Pav and build a new, single multi-purpose arena on the overall site.

Could do a "lower bowl only" config with let's say 5-6k, and then add in the "upper bowl config" to get up to 10-12k.

All arena sports make due with a combination of Mariucci and Ridder for a season or two.
 

If I had a magic genie, I would completely tear down Williams and the Pav and build a new, single multi-purpose arena on the overall site.

Could do a "lower bowl only" config with let's say 5-6k, and then add in the "upper bowl config" to get up to 10-12k.

All arena sports make do with a combination of Mariucci and Ridder for a season or two.
Gotta keep the raised floor though!

Need our little kink to stay somewhat unique.
 


Idaho’s new gym is small and gorgeous. Raised floor sucks for sightlines FYI.
Interesting the huge window space and natural light. Didn't someone say that the players complained about that decades ago at Williams, which is why they bricked them up? I wonder if there are electric shutters or something in Moscow.
 

I'd have to look it up, but in the first 10 years we had our season tickets, the building was routinely sold out, and for a time, there was a waiting list for season tickets. Capacity was about 16,000 the first four of those years and then the current 14,000+ thereafter.

That was admittedly 30 years ago, and fewer people want to go out these days, but I felt compelled to answer your question. The real issue is that, when that place was full, it was an extremely difficult place for an opposing team to win in. It was a huge factor in the program's win/loss success in those days. In terms of goals and objectives for a new or remodeled arena, preserving the ability to have that kind of atmosphere would be near the top of my list.

I don't disagree with anything you wrote. And they could still get back to that size of crowds on a semi-regular basis, but that still doesn't necessarily make it a great game experience every night. A smaller, modern venue is much more likely to make it a great, more consistent experience even in the down years.

The best thing the U did when building the football stadium was to not try and compete with the other behemoth stadiums around the conference. TCF/Huntington Bank Stadium is perfect for Minnesota, a great experience, yet it's the 2nd smallest stadium in the conference.
 





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