***OFFICIAL MINNESOTA AT OHIO STATE IN-GAME THREAD!!!***

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Cayman said:
Yeah the mentality of "I'm sick of the previous coach's results, therefore I expect big things from the new coach right away" is one I don't think I've seen for any other football or basketball coaching hire in the decade plus that I've been on this board.
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I suggested from the beginning and many agreed that this was a throw away year in many respects... but especially wins. So throw it away, look for little things, or wait until next year when we can start truly judging this coaching staff and team.
 

ecoperson said:
whole new team from coaches on down... are you that fickle of a fan that you will somehow assume the two regimes are related? TWO losses all year by 20+... both to Ohio State. That team has some studs with skills.

I think many of you that are whining here should enjoy the rest of this month and next and take a break from Gopher basketball. If you can't find any positives in a weird year like this where we were expected to lose big, early, and often, then I don't think it worth your time making yourself and others miserable. Come back next year... I am sure that you'll have many more opportunities to whine.
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I love this argument! Hey if you can't be positive about a 3-11 conference record with 7 of them being by 10+ then you aren't a true fan just leave!! That's great stuff.

Listen I get it, it's year 1 we have new guys. I just watched Wake Forest with a new coach and 9 new players lose to Duke by 2. They are 10-6 in conference and look like a good bet to make the tournament. Not sure why people think its a necessity to lose before you can win. O never said this means ben is awful and the wrong guy, it's just frustrating.
 

leib0039 said:
I love this argument! Hey if you can't be positive about a 3-11 conference record with 7 of them being by 10+ then you aren't a true fan just leave!! That's great stuff.

Listen I get it, it's year 1 we have new guys. I just watched Wake Forest with a new coach and 9 new players lose to Duke by 2. They are 10-6 in conference and look like a good bet to make the tournament. Not sure why people think its a necessity to lose before you can win. O never said this means ben is awful and the wrong guy, it's just frustrating.
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Wake Forest went 6-16 and 3-15 in conference in the coaches first year there which was last year. C'mon man.
 

leib0039 said:
I love this argument! Hey if you can't be positive about a 3-11 conference record with 7 of them being by 10+ then you aren't a true fan just leave!! That's great stuff.

Listen I get it, it's year 1 we have new guys. I just watched Wake Forest with a new coach and 9 new players lose to Duke by 2. They are 10-6 in conference and look like a good bet to make the tournament. Not sure why people think its a necessity to lose before you can win. O never said this means ben is awful and the wrong guy, it's just frustrating.
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Yeah, not sure that's a great example. Demon Deacons lost 16 of their last 19 games in Forbes first year. You're right, they are doing great this year.
 



leib0039 said:
I love this argument! Hey if you can't be positive about a 3-11 conference record with 7 of them being by 10+ then you aren't a true fan just leave!! That's great stuff.

Listen I get it, it's year 1 we have new guys. I just watched Wake Forest with a new coach and 9 new players lose to Duke by 2. They are 10-6 in conference and look like a good bet to make the tournament. Not sure why people think its a necessity to lose before you can win. O never said this means ben is awful and the wrong guy, it's just frustrating.
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People seem to keep forgetting that not only do we have a new roster but we also lost two potential starters before the season even started.
 


Gopher_In_NYC said:
Thank you, Mr. Wahl, your contributions are priceless
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Spaulding's contributions to this board are certainly a thing of beauty most of the time. I would just love to know if he thinks he is being funny or clever with the mostly nonsensical one liners he posts. Because typically they are neither of those things.
 





Lion King said:
Loewe is the only one on this team that shows THE CULTURE Ben tells us he wants to establish.Loewe always plays for team goals,never individual goals.
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Although his game doesn't translate into good advanced stat numbers, I think Loewe is the one-and-done player on this team who I will miss the most. Good defender, terrific motor, fine secondary ball handler, and an all around glue guy with low usage. He's the kind of guy who can help almost any team in a supporting role.
 

leib0039 said:
Which point was I wrong on specifically? The fact we started strong? The part we have 0 depth? The part we have fallen apart? I understand it's year 1, but I don't like excuses. We figured it out to beat Mich and MSU, no reason we should get curb stomped by 27 in a half or lose to Nebraska by a bunch.
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Fallen apart? This team had zero expectations entering the year and were overwhelmingly picked to finish last in the Big Ten. So your complaint is that the team has exceeded all expectations and isn't way better than expected?

lol. Seriously. I haven't forgotten that you were extremely critical of the Ben Johnson hire. This is nothing more than a hissy fit that you've been forced to put on hold as the Gophers have managed to win a handful of games that they shouldn't have. Back to your hole.
 

ecoperson said:
whole new team from coaches on down... are you that fickle of a fan that you will somehow assume the two regimes are related? TWO losses all year by 20+... both to Ohio State. That team has some studs with skills.

I think many of you that are whining here should enjoy the rest of this month and next and take a break from Gopher basketball. If you can't find any positives in a weird year like this where we were expected to lose big, early, and often, then I don't think it worth your time making yourself and others miserable. Come back next year... I am sure that you'll have many more opportunities to whine.
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Just remember that the "fans" who crawl out of their holes to doom and gloom post are a lot of the posters who were shitting on the Ben Johnson hire. Think that some poor games validate their coaching pick hatred.....despite the massive overachieving of this team this year.

Look no further than the talking heads. How many analysts have raved about the job Ben Johnson has been doing this year? I've never seen that amount of love for the coach of a team that has zero NCAA aspirations. Logical people knew that this year was going to be bad. Somehow Johnson and the guys have managed to be extremely competitive despite the uphill battle.
 



stocker08 said:
Just remember that the "fans" who crawl out of their holes to doom and gloom post are a lot of the posters who were shitting on the Ben Johnson hire. Think that some poor games validate their coaching pick hatred.....despite the massive overachieving of this team this year.

Look no further than the talking heads. How many analysts have raved about the job Ben Johnson has been doing this year? I've never seen that amount of love for the coach of a team that has zero NCAA aspirations. Logical people knew that this year was going to be bad. Somehow Johnson and the guys have managed to be extremely competitive despite the uphill battle.
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I get it, everyone hates losing, but yeah there are some really irrational takes about this team and this season to date. I especially enjoy the posters who claim that this is just like a typical Pitino season as a way to justify their dislike of the hire.

The team has played better overall than most of us (myself included) expected. But this was going to be a rough year, that was easy to see heading into the season, especially after Fox and Ihnen were lost to injury.
 

leib0039 said:
I love this argument! Hey if you can't be positive about a 3-11 conference record with 7 of them being by 10+ then you aren't a true fan just leave!! That's great stuff.
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I don't think it's sunk in yet to some people that "wins (and, of course, competitive losses) don't matter" is a preposterous argument. The substantial majority of fans simply aren't going to maintain much enthusiasm for a team with "a 3-11 conference record with 7 of them being by 10+" and there's nothing wrong with that. Sports are entertainment and that sort of extended record just isn't very entertaining.

Some people convince themselves that persevering with fan positivity under these circumstances is noble or virtuous but, in reality, there's nothing more virtuous about that than sitting through a series of bad movies or poor performances by a lousy band.
 

These rebuilds just can't move quick enough. Hopefully we're better next year. Portal man...

Don't think its gonna be pretty if we're going with Carrington, Thiam and Henley as the guards/ball handlers next year.
 
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skiumah1 said:
These rebuilds just can't move quick enough. Hopefully we're better next year. Portal man...

Don't think its gonna be pretty if we're going with Carrington, Thiam and Henley as the guards/ball handlers next year.
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We, legitimately, need 3 transfer guards. Two of them need to be really good ball handlers.
 

skiumah1 said:
These rebuilds just can't move quick enough. Hopefully we're better next year. Portal man...

Don't think its gonna be pretty if we're going with Carrington, Thiam and Henley as the guards/ball handlers next year.
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I'm not that concerned with the frontcourt as long as Fox and Ihnen return healthy next season. Add Payne and hopefully an improved TT, and I think our bigs will be fine. I also wouldn't be surprised if Dawson Garcia transfers in.

Our backcourt is in deep trouble as it stands today. They need at least two, if not three transfer guards who can handle the ball and score. If not, this team will have the same struggles next season as they are having now.
 
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cjbfbp said:
I don't think it's sunk in yet to some people that "wins (and, of course, competitive losses) don't matter" is a preposterous argument. The substantial majority of fans simply aren't going to maintain much enthusiasm for a team with "a 3-11 conference record with 7 of them being by 10+" and there's nothing wrong with that. Sports are entertainment and that sort of extended record just isn't very entertaining.

Some people convince themselves that persevering with fan positivity under these circumstances is noble or virtuous but, in reality, there's nothing more virtuous about that than sitting through a series of bad movies or poor performances by a lousy band.
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My problem is that these posters KNEW what we had as a team in October. All of the prognosticators picked this team as last in the Big10. Many questioned whether we'd win even one game in conference. It was known well in advance of the season that this team had no chance at success in the wins column.

So why do so many posters come out game after game acting like this loss or that loss is some sort of surprise? The surprises are when we WIN! "Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it." I recommended that these posters who can't accept what is sitting in front of their faces take a break for the remainder of the season. No amount of whining, bitching, and chicken littling is going to magically bring in a future all-conference PG or big mid season.

These posters need to grow up, put on their big boy pants, and accept the reality that the product that is on the floor this year ain't changing. They can come back next year under DIFFERENT circumstances and start their negativity chant again at a new series of insults to their basketball sensibilities.

I and many others will stay here looking for the small positives in this transition season. We'll enjoy the moral victories and support this group of student athletes who have overcome so much on our behalf.
 
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skiumah1 said:
These rebuilds just can't move quick enough. Hopefully we're better next year. Portal man...

Don't think its gonna be pretty if we're going with Carrington, Thiam and Henley as the guards/ball handlers next year.
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At this point, I would guess that Thiam's chances of being on the team next year are 50/50. My interpretation of the one-time transfer rule with immediate eligibility is that the rule doesn't apply to him and that he could transfer to another four-year institution without having to sit out. Given his JUCO numbers as a freshman, I still think he might be attractive to low level D1 program but he would be less attractive if he stayed here another year and produced the same results.
 

cjbfbp said:
At this point, I would guess that Thiam's chances of being on the team next year are 50/50. My interpretation of the one-time transfer rule with immediate eligibility is that the rule doesn't apply to him and that he could transfer to another four-year institution without having to sit out. Given his JUCO numbers as a freshman, I still think he might be attractive to low level D1 program but he would be less attractive if he stayed here another year and produced the same results.
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Probably entirely wrong and unfair, but I almost look at him as kind of a litmus test for Johnson. Does he stay and become a good contributor? Must have seen something in the kid to bring him up here. Basically he was the only freshman he recruited, at least successfully. Thompson was already here or at least he was signed here.
 

fan of Ray Williams said:
Probably entirely wrong and unfair, but I almost look at him as kind of a litmus test for Johnson. Does he stay and become a good contributor? Must have seen something in the kid to bring him up here. Basically he was the only freshman he recruited, at least successfully. Thompson was already here or at least he was signed here.
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I never cease to be amazed at how quickly some fans want to write a player off just because they don't make an impact right away.

Some freshman come to college ready to make an immediate impact, many more need some time to adjust to the college game before they reach their potential.

Look at Peyton Willis. He did very little at Vandy, and was just ok in his first go around with the Gophers.

See it some with football but much more so with basketball, there is this idea some have that if a kid can't be a star right away that means they are a bust. There is no doubt that Thiam has had a rough season. But it is far too early to close the book on him.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I'm not that concerned with the frontcourt as long as Fox and Ihnen return healthy next season. Add Payne and hopefully an improved TT, and I think our bigs will be fine. I also wouldn't be surprised if Dawson Garcia transfers in.

Our backcourt is in deep trouble as it stands today. They need at least two, if not three transfer guards who can handle the ball and score. If not, this team will have the same struggles next season as they are having now.
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As far as Garcia, I would be surprised if that does happen. He didn't come here as a freshman recruit and chose not to come here after transferring last season. As the old saying goes: When someone tells you who they are believe them.

Garcia also likely would have to sit out next season under the new transfer rule if he transferred again. Rules meant nothing last season but I suspect the rules will be much more enforced on this year's transfers.

I think we will have a significantly smaller transfer portal this offseason. Nevertheless, not trying hard to pick up one more front court player with size would be negligence. There's no guarantee that Fox or Ihnen will come back at 100%. Yes, he needs to recruit at least two transfer guards but there are always more of them available. This guy is in the portal. Ben went to the Lafayette well once. He might do it again.
 

fan of Ray Williams said:
Probably entirely wrong and unfair, but I almost look at him as kind of a litmus test for Johnson. Does he stay and become a good contributor? Must have seen something in the kid to bring him up here. Basically he was the only freshman he recruited, at least successfully. Thompson was already here or at least he was signed here.
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Been told right here on GH he was only a roster filler.......
 


cjbfbp said:
As far as Garcia, I would be surprised if that does happen. He didn't come here as a freshman recruit and chose not to come here after transferring last season. As the old saying goes: When someone tells you who they are believe them.

Garcia also likely would have to sit out next season under the new transfer rule if he transferred again. Rules meant nothing last season but I suspect the rules will be much more enforced on this year's transfers.

I think we will have a significantly smaller transfer portal this offseason. Nevertheless, not trying hard to pick up one more front court player with size would be negligence. There's no guarantee that Fox or Ihnen will come back at 100%. Yes, he needs to recruit at least two transfer guards but there are always more of them available. This guy is in the portal. Ben went to the Lafayette well once. He might do it again.
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Would Garcia be able to use the hardship waiver if he's back here for family reasons? I mean....he played maybe half a season with NC?

Our front court could jump front a major weakness to a big strength next year with Ihnen and Fox back. Thompson developing a full year. Possibly getting Curry to return. Garcia potentially.

And then I would assume that Ben Johnson is already scouting for a couple of transfer guards. Next season could be a significant step up if things come together.
 

fan of Ray Williams said:
Probably entirely wrong and unfair, but I almost look at him as kind of a litmus test for Johnson. Does he stay and become a good contributor? Must have seen something in the kid to bring him up here. Basically he was the only freshman he recruited, at least successfully. Thompson was already here or at least he was signed here.
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I don't blame Ben for taking a chance on him given his one-year JUCO shooting and scoring numbers. Unfortunately, based on what we've seen so far, he doesn't do much else to help his team when his shots aren't falling.
 

stocker08 said:
Would Garcia be able to use the hardship waiver if he's back here for family reasons? I mean....he played maybe half a season with NC?

Our front court could jump front a major weakness to a big strength next year with Ihnen and Fox back. Thompson developing a full year. Possibly getting Curry to return. Garcia potentially.

And then I would assume that Ben Johnson is already scouting for a couple of transfer guards. Next season could be a significant step up if things come together.
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I guess anything is possible and Garcia probably would have an easier time transferring here with immediate eligibility than anywhere else. According to Sports Reference, he's played in 16 games this season. He hasn't played since January 22nd.

No doubt the front court should be stronger next year but I would want to pick up another player for insurance. None of those returnees have much in the way of body mass and it would be nice to have at least one player who does. I'll be really surprised if Curry plays another year. His performance this year has been admirable under the circumstances but he often looks like he's struggling physically out there.
 

ecoperson said:
My problem is that these posters KNEW what we had as a team in October. All of the prognosticators picked this team as last in the Big10. Many questioned whether we'd win even one game in conference. It was known well in advance of the season that this team had no chance at success in the wins column.

So why do so many posters come out game after game acting like this loss or that loss is some sort of surprise? The surprises are when we WIN! "Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it." I recommended that these posters who can't accept what is sitting in front of their faces take a break for the remainder of the season. No amount of whining, bitching, and chicken littling is going to magically bring in a future all-conference PG or big mid season.

These posters need to grow up, put on their big boy pants, and accept the reality that the product that is on the floor this year ain't changing. They can come back next year under DIFFERENT circumstances and start their negativity chant again at a new series of insults to their basketball sensibilities.

I and many others will stay here looking for the small positives in this transition season. We'll enjoy the moral victories and support this group of student athletes who have overcome so much on our behalf.
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I can't comment for everyone, but for me, I just have trouble accepting loses. I absolutely hate it. I just will never be ok with "well hey its ok we know we are going to suck so if we win hey thats a cool bonus!" its just something I cannot understand. I'm not dumb, I understand we had a lot of player movement and a new coach, I dont think we should be a top 5 team with national championship aspirations this year. By the same token, I just dont feel like calling this season a success when we are 3-11 in conference and have had a few really really bad performances of late. And yes I was/am critical of the Johnson hire, i feel that is totally justified. Doesnt mean I said he has 0 shot to succeed or hasnt done good things, he has, and I said as much on here. It also should be acceptable to be a little annoyed when we get beat soundly by a Nebraska team that had 0 conference wins coming in or when we play a really good 1st half last night and then OSU just blows our doors off in the 2nd half and we look like a D2 team.

That has been and I think always will be the divide here, each side calls the other side "trolls" which I dont think is the case, its just a different rationale. There are people who have genuinely enjoyed this year and are excited with a close lose at say Wisc. I dont hate on anyone for that, its just not my thing, we lost, I could care less if we shot 1-40 and won, for me its about W and L. I apparently have angered some because i am upset we are 3-11 in conference, sorry i will never be happy my team goes 3-11 in conference, i dont care what the team looks like to start the year.
 

honestly, I think the whole thing is really pretty simple.

In the non-conf season when the Gophers were winning most of their games, they were facing teams of roughly similar athletic ability.

Once they moved into the B1G schedule, on most nights (maybe every night), the Gophers are facing a team that simply has better athletes than MN.

Good coaching can overcome certain flaws. but a coach cannot make his players into better athletes. if the other guy is bigger, stronger, quicker and jumps higher, he has an advantage. and that advantage shows up most games. The Gophers - at times - have been able to make up the lack of athleticism through hustle and execution. But on a night when the shots aren't falling, it can get ugly.

Next year, the Gophers will have some better athletes on the floor - all 4 FR look to be very athletic, and Fox will give them a guy who can make athletic plays (assuming he is close to 100%).

I am interested to see what that looks like.
 

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