Fleck

Donate To GopherHole
Replacement Gopher said:
They are coached not to return a kick off or punt, and at times it appears not to even attempt to field the punt.

It is truly astonishing.

Then again, our coach admits he plays for field goals before halftime, we kick FGs from the 2 against our rivals after not having a lead against them in over four straight games, we punt from our other rivals 37 on 4th and 2, we run the ball more than any team outside the service academies. But for some reason, we try a 55-yard FG with our kickoff specialist when everything said that was the time to punt.

I mean…..
Click to expand...
The no kickoff or punt returns absolutely kills me. That in itself is such a “not to lose” mentality.
 


Lets see how Fleck handles a little adversity. I feel for the first time in his career he is starting to feel some heat, he got a free pass in 2017, 2018 he beat WI, 2019 great season, 2020 most give him the covid pass. Now in 2021 for the first time he is getting real pressure from both the fans and media. I like PJ, however he needs to change some in game strategy.
 

Ozzy&Ray said:
He’s successfully kept it slightly at what he inherited. Five years in and they will finish with a record worse than the year before he came. He hasn’t advanced the program, he’s held serve barely.
Click to expand...
At a cost to the U of what, $10-12M more in HC pay. Maybe $15+M in coaches salaries as a whole?
 

stocker08 said:
These are emotionally charged posts. I am upset as anyone. But it seems like a lot of people think blowing it up and starting from square one would be the best way forward. That's nonsense. Fleck has taken the team from a bottom dweller to a respectable place. We still have problems.....but these can be fixed given time.
Click to expand...
Bottom dweller?
 


PMWinSTP said:
Bottom dweller?
Click to expand...

Yeah....that isn't correct. Kill definitely elevated us from a bottom dweller. But I really think Fleck has taken us that next step to being a contender.
 

amk8930 said:
Can someone please make a sign at every game for the rest of the season that says:

-Bench Morgan
-Fire Sanford
-Fire Fleck

Fleck is terrible and this team will be 6-7 by years end. I really don't want that to happen, but it will. I had bad thoughts before the Illinois game and it's all coming back to haunt me. I have thought of myself as a curse since then and know that they are losing, because of me. My bad thoughts caused the team to become cursed. So, blame me.
Click to expand...
I was born in the spring of 1968, just a few months after the last Gopher Big Ten championship. You can blame me.
 

GDMFT said:
Lets see how Fleck handles a little adversity. I feel for the first time in his career he is starting to feel some heat, he got a free pass in 2017, 2018 he beat WI, 2019 great season, 2020 most give him the covid pass. Now in 2021 for the first time he is getting real pressure from both the fans and media. I like PJ, however he needs to change some in game strategy.
Click to expand...
Good post. Will be a very interesting off-season for sure. #1, figuring out who is gone and who is back player wise and then #2 to see if any changes are made with the offensive coaching staff.
 

USAF said:
I like Fleck a lot, but that shit needs to change. The return game is the absolute opposite of elite.
Click to expand...
100% agree. On kickoffs, you're talking about 75 yard drives to score a td. Teams like Iowa set up their defensive strategy on the concept that at some point in those long drives, penalties will occur and the defense has more opportunities for a turnover.

Getting to the 30-35 yard line on a return suddenly cuts out an extra "set of downs". Less chance of an offensive screw up.

Rewatched the game on BTN last evening. There were at least 2-3 kickoffs where it looked like the ball could have been advanced beyond the 25. This staff is just so stubborn it's frustrating.

And just like changing a QB, or changing an OC, changing the kick return strategy by this staff apparently would be an admission of the wrong strategy.
 



Boomtime said:
100% agree. On kickoffs, you're talking about 75 yard drives to score a td. Teams like Iowa set up their defensive strategy on the concept that at some point in those long drives, penalties will occur and the defense has more opportunities for a turnover.

Getting to the 30-35 yard line on a return suddenly cuts out an extra "set of downs". Less chance of an offensive screw up.

Rewatched the game on BTN last evening. There were at least 2-3 kickoffs where it looked like the ball could have been advanced beyond the 25. This staff is just so stubborn it's frustrating.

And just like changing a QB, or changing an OC, changing the kick return strategy by this staff apparently would be an admission of the wrong strategy.
Click to expand...

Iowa returned it to the 27, 17, 18, 17 and the last one they took a touchback. How was that better than starting on the 25 every time?
 



Boomtime said:
100% agree. On kickoffs, you're talking about 75 yard drives to score a td. Teams like Iowa set up their defensive strategy on the concept that at some point in those long drives, penalties will occur and the defense has more opportunities for a turnover.

Getting to the 30-35 yard line on a return suddenly cuts out an extra "set of downs". Less chance of an offensive screw up.

Rewatched the game on BTN last evening. There were at least 2-3 kickoffs where it looked like the ball could have been advanced beyond the 25. This staff is just so stubborn it's frustrating.

And just like changing a QB, or changing an OC, changing the kick return strategy by this staff apparently would be an admission of the wrong strategy.
Click to expand...
At least we don't have to see any holding or blocking-in-the-back penalties that seem to plague this Rob Wenger-led special teams unit.
 



From the Parkinglot said:
Correct no problem getting the ball at the 25 every time after a kickoff. My problem is and will be not at least catching every punt. I don’t even care if they return them just catch the stupid ball to prevent it from rolling forward.
Click to expand...
Agree. The way its going, I feel they could put any 4th-string senior or never-to-be-used scholarship player in there just to give them some TV time for the folks back home. Let the ball hit the ground and roll while you wave your arms around to let everyone know to clear the area. Can't really screw up there.

How Rob Wenger is still employed is just baffling.
 

FredCoxRocks said:
At least we don't have to see any holding or blocking-in-the-back penalties that seem to plague this Rob Wenger-led special teams unit.
Click to expand...
That has to be the goal with the current approach. It just seems like such a chicken shit strategy.
 

Like everyone else, I am incredibly disappointed and angry about the "not to lose" mentality of Fleck. Not only is it bad strategy, it sends a terrible message to the players. Not going for it on the road against your rival on 4th and goal from the 2? Where you haven't won since 1999, and you're going to show zero aggression (and trust in your defense against a bad Iowa offense if you don't make it) Absolutely inexcusable.

Fleck is constantly trying to get a 1 point lead in the 2nd half and then run the clock out whether its two minutes left... or 19. Morgan is broken, and as much as we all root for the guy, we know there are other options on the bench. We could run Kramer out there and just Wildcat it for 3 quarters and have more success.

Pissed off. All that being said, I'm not calling for Fleck's job either...because I'm hoping that he can continue to learn and "change his best" as a coach. The 2019 season was a peak that we haven't reached in decades. I have come to expect the Gophers to beat the soft middle of the B10 like Purdue, Nebraska, Northwestern, Rutgers, Maryland, Illinois etc with regularity, (obviously with some hiccups - see Illinois last week...ugh) and that is nothing to take for granted either.

None of us will or should be satisfied until we are beating Wisconsin and Iowa half the time and that is where the failure is. Especially this year where neither of those teams are anything special. I'll give Fleck the benefit of the doubt a bit longer, but we need to see some changes in the mentality and strategy on the field.
 

From the Parkinglot said:
Correct no problem getting the ball at the 25 every time after a kickoff. My problem is and will be not at least catching every punt. I don’t even care if they return them just catch the stupid ball to prevent it from rolling forward.
Click to expand...
Yeah, kickoff and punt return issues are different. Lots of teams don't try to run kickoffs back anymore.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Shhh....doesn't fit the narrative.....don't waste time with facts.
Click to expand...
Rewatch the game if you get the chance. Look where we fielded the kicks. And watch where the defenders were at the time our guys caught the ball.

Also, you're not taking into context wind effect for where Iowa ended up. I'm not saying there are not times where it's the right thing to do. With the Gophs, it's "automatic".

There's no "narrative" here.
 

Boomtime said:
Rewatch the game if you get the chance. Look where we fielded the kicks. And watch where the defenders were at the time our guys caught the ball.

Also, you're not taking into context wind effect for where Iowa ended up. I'm not saying there are not times where it's the right thing to do. With the Gophs, it's "automatic".

There's no "narrative" here.
Click to expand...
Sure there is....this is your happy time where you can troll the threads complaining about everything.

There is room for discussion about the punt returns but in terms of kickoffs it is becoming very common, in the college game especially, for teams to just fair catch the ones that don't go through the endzone and not even attempt a return.
 

ekeg0002 said:
Like everyone else, I am incredibly disappointed and angry about the "not to lose" mentality of Fleck. Not only is it bad strategy, it sends a terrible message to the players. Not going for it on the road against your rival on 4th and goal from the 2? Where you haven't won since 1999, and you're going to show zero aggression (and trust in your defense against a bad Iowa offense if you don't make it) Absolutely inexcusable.

Fleck is constantly trying to get a 1 point lead in the 2nd half and then run the clock out whether its two minutes left... or 19. Morgan is broken, and as much as we all root for the guy, we know there are other options on the bench. We could run Kramer out there and just Wildcat it for 3 quarters and have more success.

Pissed off. All that being said, I'm not calling for Fleck's job either...because I'm hoping that he can continue to learn and "change his best" as a coach. The 2019 season was a peak that we haven't reached in decades. I have come to expect the Gophers to beat the soft middle of the B10 like Purdue, Nebraska, Northwestern, Rutgers, Maryland, Illinois etc with regularity, (obviously with some hiccups - see Illinois last week...ugh) and that is nothing to take for granted either.

None of us will or should be satisfied until we are beating Wisconsin and Iowa half the time and that is where the failure is. Especially this year where neither of those teams are anything special. I'll give Fleck the benefit of the doubt a bit longer, but we need to see some changes in the mentality and strategy on the field.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Ferentz and Chryst go for it there in the same situation without giving it much thought. Same with punting instead of going for that long FG. Fleck and his staff have consistently gotten outcoached in critical games since he arrived. Not sure how that changes...
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Ironically, I was listening to a podcast with Reusse and the Skor North guys, and Reusse was actually more positive about Fleck than Phil Mackey. Reusse said he doesn't like Fleck's shtick, but overall he thinks Fleck is an asset to the program. Called him comparable to Mason or Kill as a coach, with somewhat better recruiting.
Click to expand...
I think the same. He's a really good program coach and has us competitive every game. (I'll take that for the next 4-7 years) He needs to trust the team to overcome some obstacles in games and go for the win. He's watched his special teams miss kicks regularly, but continues to put them in bad situations. Twice this year they were lucky to not get a blocked kick houses at the end of the 1st half.
 

Boomtime said:
Rewatch the game if you get the chance. Look where we fielded the kicks. And watch where the defenders were at the time our guys caught the ball.

Also, you're not taking into context wind effect for where Iowa ended up. I'm not saying there are not times where it's the right thing to do. With the Gophs, it's "automatic".

There's no "narrative" here.
Click to expand...

Oh so now there's a 'wind effect' that only Iowa had to deal with.

Minnesota's average start after kickoffs was the 25. Iowa's was the 21. Advantage Minnesota.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Ferentz and Chryst go for it there in the same situation without giving it much thought. Same with punting instead of going for that long FG. Fleck and his staff have consistently gotten outcoached in critical games since he arrived. Not sure how that changes...
Click to expand...
Fleck needs to realize that he needs to change with the times. Coaches are going for it more and more all the time. You should never kick for 3 inside the opponents 2 in the first half. Make them go 98 yards if they have to.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Iowa returned it to the 27, 17, 18, 17 and the last one they took a touchback. How was that better than starting on the 25 every time?
Click to expand...
Yeah. And one got called back for holding, not sure if you included that. If you don’t have a guy who can house it the 25 instead of 20 thing really changes the math on touchbacks. Even if you get to the 33 twice. Being at the 17 twice and 33 twice is worse than being at the 25 4 times
 

PMWinSTP said:
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Ferentz and Chryst go for it there in the same situation without giving it much thought. Same with punting instead of going for that long FG. Fleck and his staff have consistently gotten outcoached in critical games since he arrived. Not sure how that changes...
Click to expand...
Ferentz literally didn't try to score when they were up 2 with 2 minutes left. If that's not proof of his conservative nature I don't know what is.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Oh so now there's a 'wind effect' that only Iowa had to deal with.

Minnesota's average start after kickoffs was the 25. Iowa's was the 21. Advantage Minnesota.
Click to expand...
The lengths that some of you go to defend this play calling is amazing.

The thing with Fleck's game plan, or lack thereof, is he's conservative on the kick receiving aspect, yet he'll go for a 4th and one from our own 35. It's like he's "Jeykll and Hyde". That inconsistency is costing the Gophers games.

As I stated earlier after last nite's rewatch... we fair caught two of the kick offs at the 18 yard line and the 8 yard line. You can't get beyond the 25 fielding the ball at the 18?

And as someone else already mentioned, punt return strategy is a cluster%$@#.
 

Boomtime said:
The lengths that some of you go to defend this play calling is amazing.

The thing with Fleck's game plan, or lack thereof, is he's conservative on the kick receiving aspect, yet he'll go for a 4th and one from our own 35. It's like he's "Jeykll and Hyde". That inconsistency is costing the Gophers games.

As I stated earlier after last nite's rewatch... we fair caught two of the kick offs at the 18 yard line and the 8 yard line. You can't get beyond the 25 fielding the ball at the 18?

And as someone else already mentioned, punt return strategy is a cluster%$@#.
Click to expand...

I'm not talking about anything other than the kickoffs, and Flecks strategy there is similar to a lot of coaches. I have no problem with them fair catching it most of the time.

I don't have to go to any lengths to defend it. Minnesota fair caught every kickoff, Iowa returned nearly every kickoff. Minnesota's starting field position was better than Iowa's after kickoffs. Fleck's strategy on kickoffs was better than Ferentz's.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
Ferentz literally didn't try to score when they were up 2 with 2 minutes left. If that's not proof of his conservative nature I don't know what is.
Click to expand...
It was like he wanted to give us a chance.
 

Fleck said it again on KFAN this morning with PA that he basically just wants points and have the game come down to the last possession. How about we go for it and actually put some pressure on the other teams.
 

Wally said:
It was like he wanted to give us a chance.
Click to expand...
Iowa has played the same strategy since Ferentz arrived. Minimize mistakes on offense and let the defense win the game.

Fleck knows this. Hell, everyone knows this. So the attempted field goal from midfield was way beyond stupid. More than likely Iowa is "three and out" and punts from their end zone and we have the ball at our 40 with a fresh set of downs.

This game was there for the taking and PJ managed(no pun intended) to screw it up.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom