Doogie: I have every reason to believe Richard Pitino WILL be back as Gophers coach, there are just no signs

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manderson1984 said:
Demir over performed? I expected big thing s from Oturo and Carr. I expected us as a team to shoot better. Also expected better/more contribution from Williams, Ihnen, and Omersa. They had 8 playable guys, they didn't get better. Pitino also doesn't play a lot of guys and will probably not ever. We lost games deservingly so, but I don't buy it being a talent or depth issue.
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Actually, looking back to his first three years- he did play a lot of guys. He went 9-10 deep each of those years. Then I think two things happened: 1. He got on the hot seat and tightened down the playing time 2. He hasn't had a blazing fast point guard who they could get out and run with since lil Dre and then Dorsey. When he was running he had to play more guys. For him, missing on Tum Tum might have been a big deal in changing up the playing style somewhat. And of course had MSU not come in late for Tum Tum we probably got him and never would have recruited Dorsey....
 

bga1 said:
Actually, looking back to his first three years- he did play a lot of guys. He went 9-10 deep each of those years. Then I think two things happened: 1. He got on the hot seat and tightened down the playing time 2. He hasn't had a blazing fast point guard who they could get out and run with since lil Dre and then Dorsey. When he was running he had to play more guys. For him, missing on Tum Tum might have been a big deal in changing up the playing style somewhat. And of course had MSU not come in late for Tum Tum we probably got him and never would have recruited Dorsey....
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Very true on when he was still attempting to press. I do think he has some trust issues with letting guys play through mistakes and rides his guys willingly for long periods of time which I honestly don't mind. These guys are young and don't need extended breaks like they used to prior to TV time outs and what not.
I think the style change had to do with Richard realizing that style wasn't going to be viable in the big ten. I'd bet some pretty good money that he'd adjust it back if he ends up in a different conference that is more apt to that style.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I hope it’s not Grant. Hiring failed re-treads rarely works out.
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I'm with you. Grant seems to thrive at the mid-major level and struggled to tread water at a high-major. That's his track record. He's one of many who has that kind of track record, not the least of which are some pretty capable guys like Tommy Amaker.

The truth of the matter--and Pitino has found this out the hard way--is that the Big Ten is chock full of the best coaches in the country, some of them future hall of famers. You have to match wits with the best of the best, game in and game out, in the course of the conference schedule. If you expect to be competitive in this conference, you need a super coach. If you don't have one already, go get yourself one.
 

gopher7 said:
In all this Pitino talk, it's interesting that him producing his second consecutive metro-recruit-turned-Gopher-star-who-leaves-early-for-the-NBA is what could get him fired.
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LOL. That's not even remotely what will get him fired.
 


Bad Gopher said:
I'm with you. Grant seems to thrive at the mid-major level and struggled to tread water at a high-major. That's his track record. He's one of many who has that kind of track record, not the least of which are some pretty capable guys like Tommy Amaker.

The truth of the matter--and Pitino has found this out the hard way--is that the Big Ten is chock full of the best coaches in the country, some of them future hall of famers. You have to match wits with the best of the best, game in and game out, in the course of the conference schedule. If you expect to be competitive in this conference, you need a super coach. If you don't have one already, go get yourself one.
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It's an interesting question on why do they not work? Amaker won at Seton Hall, but took over Michigan with sanctions. He may have been successful if he was given more time at Michigan. Alabama hasn't been great either after him. Grant is not on the top of my lists, but he's a good coach and I honestly would be surprised if he left Dayton too. That's a really good mid major job.
 

manderson1984 said:
It's an interesting question on why do they not work? Amaker won at Seton Hall, but took over Michigan with sanctions. He may have been successful if he was given more time at Michigan. Alabama hasn't been great either after him. Grant is not on the top of my lists, but he's a good coach and I honestly would be surprised if he left Dayton too. That's a really good mid major job.
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That's a good topic of conversation. Sometimes I think that the "disadvantage" of high-majors--especially those with tradition and high expectations--is that you're expected to recruit a lot of Rivals star ratings...as opposed to the players that fit what you like to do and know how to do. And when those kinds of players are available, it's hard to not pull the trigger and bring them in. I have to say, that's what I've admired about the drunks to the east: they've got their way of doing things, and they stick to it. When they have a chance at a 5-star athlete, it still needs to be the right fit.

That's only part of it. There are other factors.
 

manderson1984 said:
Very true on when he was still attempting to press. I do think he has some trust issues with letting guys play through mistakes and rides his guys willingly for long periods of time which I honestly don't mind. These guys are young and don't need extended breaks like they used to prior to TV time outs and what not.
I think the style change had to do with Richard realizing that style wasn't going to be viable in the big ten. I'd bet some pretty good money that he'd adjust it back if he ends up in a different conference that is more apt to that style.
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Any style can work anywhere as long as you have the right players and you execute properly.
 

manderson1984 said:
It's an interesting question on why do they not work? Amaker won at Seton Hall, but took over Michigan with sanctions. He may have been successful if he was given more time at Michigan. Alabama hasn't been great either after him. Grant is not on the top of my lists, but he's a good coach and I honestly would be surprised if he left Dayton too. That's a really good mid major job.
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Dayton should be in the Big East. I totally understand Xavier had the bigger market potential etc. And now that they're in, Dayton is probably blocked.
 



benlaur said:
Any style can work anywhere as long as you have the right players and you execute properly.
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Most cases that would be true, but the B1G has proven to be a little different/unique in this case. Now it could be a fair question of are they able to get the right guys to run that system to play in the B1G? Probably a chicken or the egg argument, but the fact remains that most guys have changed their preference to survive (Pitino, Underwood, etc..)
 

Bad Gopher said:
Honest question: what would be the signs that Doogie is looking for?
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Somebody with actual connections writing about it. Doogie is the least plugged in reporter in town. The only time he has a scoop is when an agent plays him like a fiddle (Flip, Hoiberg, etc.).
 

USAF said:
Either fire him or extend him.

"One more year" makes zero sense.

If you're happy with the program, extend.

It's not going to change. We know who Pitino is.
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This is really it.

We are going to bad next year.
 







salzie said:
I was being sarcastic and taking bit of a jab @builtbadger
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I got the sarcastic part, but there is some valid talking points about style and what can and will be successful here. Many don't comprehend that certain styles work in this conference and certain ones really don't or are extremely hard to have here.
 

manderson1984 said:
Very true on when he was still attempting to press. I do think he has some trust issues with letting guys play through mistakes and rides his guys willingly for long periods of time which I honestly don't mind. These guys are young and don't need extended breaks like they used to prior to TV time outs and what not.
I think the style change had to do with Richard realizing that style wasn't going to be viable in the big ten. I'd bet some pretty good money that he'd adjust it back if he ends up in a different conference that is more apt to that style.
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I have no doubt that he would go back to that style if he could in another conference. You have to have the players to run that and after he shot for the moon on recruits and missed, he properly figured out that he was going to have to grind it out, which was a big adjustment.
 


The saddest part of all of this is Doogie defending himself against Twitter trolls all night. He is as insecure as anyone in this market and that is saying something.
 

salzie said:
False, only pack line defense works
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Just show me a non blue blood that built what has done with a backline because a awful lot of schools that are now up and coming or already established as a major power. Been tracking how programs have been built that could not recruit at a blue blood level for a long time and Nova did it a certain but still established a identity on the first day, mixed in zone and recruited to fit. Find a faced pace non blue blood that established the success that UVA has with 9 straight double digit win ACC seasons, 6 total ACC titles, the National Title. Ask BEARD what he thinks, ask Mack , ask Gard. Everyone has a different styles, different wrinkles but it still comes down to who wins.
 

salzie said:
We have about 9 threads, but my general feeling is it's time to move on

If Coyle keeps Pitino around, I'll continue to support him and the team.
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I have the opposite opinion. I would like to see Pitino return for one more year. But if Coyle chooses its time to move on, I'll be happy to support whoever the new coach is and the team.
 

Just Gopher It!! said:
He's had seven years.

I spent most of my adult life in sales and I loved it because it is black/white - you're either selling or not. By any objective measure, he's failed.

IMO he made his "quota" in -
2013 Winning NIT first year - 25 wins
2016 4th in conference - 24 2ins
2018 Won first NCAA tourney game - 22 wins
Barring a miracle finish to this season, that's 4 our of 7 years he hit his quota - not surpassing it significantly - @150% of plan, for example

That's simply unacceptable and will get you fired at basically any company, because you are costing the organization money (in this case - attendance drops off and all that encompasses and I'd be shocked if the donations haven't corresponding been affected.

He gets paid to produce - plain and simple. I understand part of it is the clean program, helping his players grow and graduate, however, the most important metric (as it should be) is how much have you sold this year.

We don't have a program, we have a team - programs reload (even if they have a downyear once in while). We are hope and pray to make the tourney and be grateful for that measly morsel. Wisconsin has a program; we had one under Clem.

No more excuses.

If you're a season ticket holder and will cancel or seriously consider it (if Pitino is retained) then I would email Coyle after the season concludes and tell him - the more he sees money leaving the more likely he'll do something. It's good for him to get feedback from non-big time donors as well - then he knows it's not just a select group of fans.
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The sad thing is, this "bad" season is his 4th best out of 7 years in terms of conference winning %.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
The saddest part of all of this is Doogie defending himself against Twitter trolls all night. He is as insecure as anyone in this market and that is saying something.
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His problem is that he sells himself as someone who is plugged in and he is not, so he really opens himself up to trolls. He has to defend himself because his record does not support his claim.

It's like Woj, when he misses on something, he doesn't get constant crap (or if he does, he blows it off) because he record shows that he's plugged in.
 



No signs = No agents have yet been able to use MN to get their client a raise....
 

builtbadgers said:
Just show me a non blue blood that built what has done with a backline because a awful lot of schools that are now up and coming or already established as a major power. Been tracking how programs have been built that could not recruit at a blue blood level for a long time and Nova did it a certain but still established a identity on the first day, mixed in zone and recruited to fit. Find a faced pace non blue blood that established the success that UVA has with 9 straight double digit win ACC seasons, 6 total ACC titles, the National Title. Ask BEARD what he thinks, ask Mack , ask Gard. Everyone has a different styles, different wrinkles but it still comes down to who wins.
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I don't overall disagree, I just think way you deliver message on a Gopher board isn't always the best.

I enjoy your contribution to the board. That doesn't mean I'm not going to make the occasional good natured dig of annoying love towards Bennets and Wisconsin
 

shaggith said:
I have the opposite opinion. I would like to see Pitino return for one more year. But if Coyle chooses its time to move on, I'll be happy to support whoever the new coach is and the team.
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I like Pitino and want him to succeed. If fired, I wouldn't be surprised to see him as HC again. He might need to take AC role though.

I want to see a winner in MN in my lifetime. I don't even need a national champion, consistently in tourney, occasional run to sweet 16, or gasp, final 4, I'd be happy.
 

With that @builtbadgers I know there is few posters that follow you around and take shots. If you take it personal from me, I'll stop
 

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