Donation page to buyout Pitino - Fire Him!

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Qaqqz
WhoFellDownTheGopherHole? said:
None of us know, but many of us haven't known and have still been right each of the last few years about the lack of recruiting success and unsatisfactory on-court performance. 8 years. The one consistent, is Pitino. When so many fans have nice things to say about a coach, but still want to fire him - he's probably not good. It's not about anything other than his incapability of getting these guys to crash boards, move around on offense, or look like they want to finish an opponent...or relative game clock management competency.
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I see a team that last season overachieved its talent level. The year before that not sure many coaches could have got our team that far. Year before that decimated with injuries. Year before that not sure many coaches could have got our team that far. I think Pitino has done a good job of maximizing talent.

Another interesting study is to look at the number of wins by each big10 program since Pitino started with the gophs.

Now recruiting is a different issue. I think for whatever reason we have fallen short in that area.
 

I admire those who still have faith that just one more year and MN will make it to the NCAA and win at least three games and contend for the BIG championship.
Because that should be the expectations for the coach and the team.
It matters not what we say here but what the AD hears from the few remaining big donors that are willing to help with a buy out and $$ for a new coach.
Before the pandemic the Barn was rarely filled and one wonders how many season tickets will be sold next year without a change in the HC position.
The AD has a lot on his plate but he better have a list of potential BB HCs for next year.
 

Is Dutcher really the best option or just a local connection?
 

golf said:
Respect for that. But also we dont know how this season is going to play out. Certainly not crazy to think we make the tourney, then what if we win a game or two. What if our young players stabilize and excel. Maybe recruiting looks good for next year.

We will disagree regarding Pitino's performance over the last 7 years, but point is that none of us know how things will play out this season as well. To me it is not that far-fetched that the above paragraph plays out. If not, will probably be right there with you.
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Thickest, maroonest glasses ever.
 

golf said:
Qaqqz


I see a team that last season overachieved its talent level. The year before that not sure many coaches could have got our team that far. Year before that decimated with injuries. Year before that not sure many coaches could have got our team that far. I think Pitino has done a good job of maximizing talent.

Another interesting study is to look at the number of wins by each big10 program since Pitino started with the gophs.

Now recruiting is a different issue. I think for whatever reason we have fallen short in that area.
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10th place finish in the Big Ten is overachieving?
 


UpAndUnder43 said:
Is Dutcher really the best option or just a local connection?
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I really like Dutchers resume and the way they play. Associate HC under Steve Fisher for 30 years. Now in his 4th year at San Diego St. 20+ wins in each of first 2 years (1 out of 2 NCAA App.) . Team was 30-2 last year set to be a 1 or 2 seed in NCAA tournament. 5-0 to start the year this year. Convincing wins over UCLA and Arizona State.

It's all about winning games, but more than his resume like I said I like the way his guys play. They're tough. They play great defense. They play smart basketball. They're disciplined.

He brings in transfers but mainly relies on his own recruits as we're seeing in this years team.

The argument against him is that he took over a San Diego State program from Fisher that was easy to transition into success. I think it's more than that.

He's number 1 on my board.
 
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golf said:
8-12 in the toughest conference. 5 of those losses were nailbiters. Done with basically two players.
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How is that overachieving when he is the one who recruits the players. If all we had were 2 players then that's his fault as well
 

golf said:
8-12 in the toughest conference. 5 of those losses were nailbiters. Done with basically two players.
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Like this is absurd, finishing 10th out of 14th is overachieving? And 5 nail biter losses aren't on the coach? We have a roster with only 2 players when he recruited the full roster
 



2 players? 2 all-conference players!

Usually a team with two all-conference players does better than 8-12. especially when one of the others is a defensive, sharpshooting specialist like Gabe. (sarcasm alert)
 

Otis said:
2 players? 2 all-conference players!

Usually a team with two all-conference players does better than 8-12. especially when one of the others is a defensive, sharpshooting specialist like Gabe. (sarcasm alert)
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Meanie!
 


golf said:
Qaqqz


I see a team that last season overachieved its talent level. The year before that not sure many coaches could have got our team that far. Year before that decimated with injuries. Year before that not sure many coaches could have got our team that far. I think Pitino has done a good job of maximizing talent.

Another interesting study is to look at the number of wins by each big10 program since Pitino started with the gophs.

Now recruiting is a different issue. I think for whatever reason we have fallen short in that area.
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48-83.....Tubby and Monson were fired with better B10 records.
 



howeda7 said:
Chicken, egg. If this season goes poorly and you bring Pitino back, the Barn will be almost as empty next year as it is now. Can we really afford that? No. You're talking $1.75 million buyout and maybe paying a new coach $1 million more than we pay Pitino. Unless it's Beilein I don't see us paying big bucks, but it's not going to take $5 million a year to get Dutcher or Musselman etc.
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I do believe that Brian Dutcher would be our coach right now if it hadn't been for the pandemic. As far as whether he's the right guy, some say he's too old for a new challenge like this, but I don't think that's necessarily a disqualifier. I always point to Scotty Bowman. When he returned to coaching in 1991 to replace the ailing Bob Johnson in Pittsburgh, I distinctly remember chatter about him being over the hill and that the game had passed him by. All he did was win four more championships after that. I think Bud Grant could've coached another 15-20 years had he not consciously decided to do something different.
 
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GopherPlaya said:
How is that overachieving when he is the one who recruits the players. If all we had were 2 players then that's his fault as well
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Agree. Recruiting has been subpar. I believe our instate recruiting misses for example are significant, but i know some disagree with that.
 

Slim Tubby said:
It seems odd to me that MN high school kids have the capability of seeing what's in front of them regarding this program but many of our fans cannot...or at least they refuse to accept it. This program is flailing, the coaching is inadequate and our in-state recruiting remains abysmal. I'm extremely passionate about UMN sports of both genders but this isn't a program I'd have any interest playing for under it's current coaching staff if I was a high-level local recruit.

With that said, factoring in the current financial situation at the U, I'd be stunned if Coyle made a change after this season even when one is necessary for the health of the program. This demise hasn't happened overnight nor is it "localized" to this board...the significant decline in Attendance over the last 4-5 years is representative of the apathy that has set in with Gopher Men's Hoops. One (1) NCAA tourney win in 8 years, consistently finishing in the bottom half of the Big 10 and missing out on a grossly high % of highly ranked in-state kid is not my idea of success but apparently I have my standards set too high as a loyal fan.
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What's made me sad is seeing the sons of Gopher alumni head out of town. Although one can't say for sure, if families like the Thompsons had confidence in the current program and coach to compete for championships and coach their sons up, Race and others would be way more likely to stay. I don't see Chet Holmgren staying either. And yes, I know, even Sean May didn't follow his dad to Indiana, so these things are far from a slam dunk, but geez... Even with the Coffey situation, it was clear that relations ended up strained between Pitino and the family for whatever reasons--which itself can't help the program's perception among the local community and alumni players.
 

golf said:
Qaqqz


I see a team that last season overachieved its talent level. The year before that not sure many coaches could have got our team that far. Year before that decimated with injuries. Year before that not sure many coaches could have got our team that far. I think Pitino has done a good job of maximizing talent.

Another interesting study is to look at the number of wins by each big10 program since Pitino started with the gophs.

Now recruiting is a different issue. I think for whatever reason we have fallen short in that area.
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I can take the best coaches and explain away any of their losses with excuses. They do not lose very often though and think excuses are for losers. Coaches are measured by wins and losses. Over time, misfortune such as injuries even out. Suspensions are the coaches fault for recruiting poor characters. 38-83 measures as historically bad in the conference.
 

builtbadgers said:
13-14 we finished the season going 5-8
14-15 we finished 2-6
15-16 we finished 2-9
16-17 best he did by far !
17-18 we finished 1-11
18-19 we finished 5-8
19-20 we finished 3-6
That data does not indicate improvement by my standard. I despise mediocrity. Hard to ever justify 48-83 no matter what.
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Thank You for doing all the work to dig this up and prove him wrong. I knew this was a massive reach but many times when people do this, it's hard to call them out unless you go back and prove them wrong and spend some time in doing so. I was too lazy and I'm glad not everybody is like me.

So - Thank You again for laying this out for all to see.

I'm not sure why he typed what he typed as I have witnessed the team (seems like each year to me) get worse as the season progresses. I do recall last year, all the missed opportunities to win games where we choked them away, which to me boiled down primarily to coaching. Whether it was a play not called, a player barely able to move up and down the floor due to playing 40 minutes, or just not engaging to change the momentum the other team had taken from our guys. Just like the other night, I watched Illinois (I turned the game on with the good guys leading 10-8, and things looked good for a few more minutes) just absolutely take over the game. I watched Pitino on the sidelines standing there and watching the game get out of hand as well... just like I was. He could have been sitting right next to me as he had as much impact doing what he was doing as I did sitting on my couch. He doesn't try to reign his guys in when they're taking quick and crummy shots, no trying to get them to share the ball, no timeout to stop any run.... nothing.

I watched Underwood get mad at one of his players for taking a stupid shot and they were up nearly 30 points with a few minutes left in the game and I thought, now there is a consummate coach. Always coaching... always taking every opportunity to get his guys to do what's best. Pitino just kind of stands there and watches, and if he's yelling, it's at the refs... at least that's what I saw last night and have noted it before. A guy who had no answer and really, no clue, and he's got his deepest bench and team - EVER. The guys on ESPN basically said the same - without saying it - since that would be bad.

I guess we'll chalk it up to being the first conference game!! We'll see...
 
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He typed what he did because as humans we tend to believe what we want, what makes us feel better than actually facing the truth. I will add that most late game execution is on the players. Players have to make plays, coaches have to prepare them to win as a team.
 

GopherPlaya said:
Like this is absurd, finishing 10th out of 14th is overachieving? And 5 nail biter losses aren't on the coach? We have a roster with only 2 players when he recruited the full roster
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I didn't know Pitino was the one out on the line shooting free throws to ice the Wisconsin/Maryland games...

Seriously, Pitino is to blame for a lot of the teams problems but at some point the guys on the court have to put the ball in the hoop. There's only so much the coach can do.
 

Parcival said:
I didn't know Pitino was the one out on the line shooting free throws to ice the Wisconsin/Maryland games...

Seriously, Pitino is to blame for a lot of the teams problems but at some point the guys on the court have to put the ball in the hoop. There's only so much the coach can do.
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Obviously, I feel a change is required but this is a very honest and accurate post. Pitino is still liable for recruiting and preparing the players but can you imagine having your livelihood being somewhat controlled by a free throw or execution of an inbounds play?

Pitino is classy, a good family man and just a really great guy but lack of results comes at a steep price at this level.
 

Parcival said:
I didn't know Pitino was the one out on the line shooting free throws to ice the Wisconsin/Maryland games...

Seriously, Pitino is to blame for a lot of the teams problems but at some point the guys on the court have to put the ball in the hoop. There's only so much the coach can do.
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Agree. But evals of prospects have to address this as best you can and some people are better at evaluating intangibles like character, mental toughness, drive to be great, how well coached they were before you got them. How hard will they work once you get them, how well do you develop the skills they must have to make your team better. It is a really hard job and even more so to become great. Few coaches can do it. Few achieve greatness in any field.
 

Parcival said:
I didn't know Pitino was the one out on the line shooting free throws to ice the Wisconsin/Maryland games...

Seriously, Pitino is to blame for a lot of the teams problems but at some point the guys on the court have to put the ball in the hoop. There's only so much the coach can do.
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So stop recruiting poor shooters and low IQ players. If you recruit 60% FT shooters then u better do extra to develop them
 



Parcival said:
I didn't know Pitino was the one out on the line shooting free throws to ice the Wisconsin/Maryland games...

Seriously, Pitino is to blame for a lot of the teams problems but at some point the guys on the court have to put the ball in the hoop. There's only so much the coach can do.
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Funny how some coaches get all
the breaks in those type
situations.
 

I think it’s quite comical to defend Richard at all at this point. He is 48-83 in big ten play. He brings in the players and coaches them. The results are bad. End of story. That record is unacceptable and this program is better than that. As of right now this program is in a really bad spot. I see about 6,000 people in the seats next year if RP is still here.
 

The one thing that has never happened and won't happen is Pitino's players quitting on him or each other. He does engender respect and affection, and he does well to hold things together amidst adversity.
 

I've backed the coach for 8 years now, but, between his awful and shortsighted substitution patterns, his weird use of timeouts, calling timeouts that disrupt positive momentum or calling the t.o. 10 seconds before media timeouts, and the wonderful, profound no-pass offense, I have seen enough.

No reason to not introduce younger players with 5minutes of meaningful game time ( shortsighted ). Not developing and sometimes regression of players. Mustaf should be playing.
 

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