All Things Boys MSHSL State Tournament

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Spottedmuskie said:
Boston College, Minnesota, Michigan State, Iowa State; you would think Dodd could play somewhere decent, right?
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Could it be an academic issue rather than athletic. Perhaps higher ed institutes are looking at test scores from his ACT or SAT and holding up any offers?
 

Some guy said:
No. This has nothing to do with playoffs. It has to do with regular season.
Look up what the MSHSL has done with coon rapids.

It is straight up corruption.
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Hey boyz...wrong thread.
 

Some guy said:
No. This has nothing to do with playoffs. It has to do with regular season.
Look up what the MSHSL has done with coon rapids.

It is straight up corruption.
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It's not corruption. You may not agree with it, but it's not corrupt.
 

Some guy said:
No. This has nothing to do with playoffs. It has to do with regular season.
Look up what the MSHSL has done with coon rapids.

It is straight up corruption.
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I’ve seen it. Again it’s helped more than it’s hurt. Don’t know what else to tell you. We can agree to disagree.
 

Gophers_4life said:
Andover

Wins state in hockey and going to state in basketball in the largest class.


Had to look it up on a map.

Why did so many people move there 20-25 years ago and start families? Did they give away houses for free??
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thirty years ago, think the only schools in that area were Park Center, Osseo and Anoka. Then Champlin opened up, then Maple Grove, Rogers and Andover in 2002, NW Metro just keeps getting bigger and bigger, I'm sure in another ten years they'll be another high school up there.
 



MennoSota said:
Could it be an academic issue rather than athletic. Perhaps higher ed institutes are looking at test scores from his ACT or SAT and holding up any offers?
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Unfortunately I think a lot of mid majors and low majors are filling there rosters up through the portal with D2, D3 guys looking to move up, HM looking to move down and with anything left from the JUCO ranks and as a result there's minimal opportunities for high school kids, and I think some guys sat on offers for too long. Leo Torbor was smart to snatch up an offer from Tim Miles at San Jose State, but you look at Ayden Mc Donald from Hibbing, Jaxson Lodge from Morris, there both going to Augustana, Nick Katona from Shakopee going to UMD, those are all guys that I think could play in the Summit League, IMO. Pennebaker at Park Center, Dodd, Willie Wilson, those guys are all unsigned right now, perhaps they all go the prep school route and try to get an offer next year?
 

Fleckoff said:
Unfortunately I think a lot of mid majors and low majors are filling there rosters up through the portal with D2, D3 guys looking to move up, HM looking to move down and with anything left from the JUCO ranks and as a result there's minimal opportunities for high school kids, and I think some guys sat on offers for too long. Leo Torbor was smart to snatch up an offer from Tim Miles at San Jose State, but you look at Ayden Mc Donald from Hibbing, Jaxson Lodge from Morris, there both going to Augustana, Nick Katona from Shakopee going to UMD, those are all guys that I think could play in the Summit League, IMO. Pennebaker at Park Center, Dodd, Willie Wilson, those guys are all unsigned right now, perhaps they all go the prep school route and try to get an offer next year?
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Dodd is way better then those D2 guys you mention. Through the board it looks like SDSU and Denver has shown significant interest. As players hit the portal and teams need to fill rosters, as long as there’s no eligibility issues, which we shouldn’t assume I can see him as a late D1 signee.
 

Fleckoff said:
thirty years ago, think the only schools in that area were Park Center, Osseo and Anoka. Then Champlin opened up, then Maple Grove, Rogers and Andover in 2002, NW Metro just keeps getting bigger and bigger, I'm sure in another ten years they'll be another high school up there.
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The original plan was Otsego, but I think they’ve backed off of that. Just make Rogers bigger
 




MaxyJR1 said:
It's not corruption. You may not agree with it, but it's not corrupt.
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The coon rapids situation is 100% corruption.


Your buddy on the board so your school gets to the 5a state semifinals?
Yours isn’t so forest lake gets to go 0-9 in perpetuity?



If that isn’t corruption I don’t know what is
 

Gopherfan84 said:
I’ve seen it. Again it’s helped more than it’s hurt. Don’t know what else to tell you. We can agree to disagree.
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It has certainly helped a handful. It is ruining schools 16-32 in the state
 




Spottedmuskie said:
What's your proposal then? Put the top 16 in it's own class? Are you adding yet another class with all this?
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Maybe it's the right thing?

Obviously the elite 16 are truly in a class of their own when you consider enrollment and demographics.

Would be interesting to compare then the 16-32 in 6A vs the top 16 in 5A.
 



Spottedmuskie said:
What's your proposal then? Put the top 16 in it's own class? Are you adding yet another class with all this?
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If you want MN football to be healthy there needs to be less focus on playoffs generally.

I would be in favor of:

1) dropping a class. (Though I care about this the least)
2) Having a 9 game regular season
3) allow teams to self-schedule (at least a few of the games) to create competitive matchups
4) only half the teams make the playoffs to avoid first round blowouts


That plan would create better competition for more athletes.


Everyone keeps wanting to add and subtract classes so more teams or their teams can compete for championships. Championships are about the least important thing about high school football.

Rather than Hopkins losing by 25+ in 7 of 9 games and 34+ in 6 of 9 games maybe we could create a scheduling environment where the 25th biggest school in the state where Hopkins can play 4-6 competitive games instead of 2.
 


Gophers_4life said:
Maybe it's the right thing?

Obviously the elite 16 are truly in a class of their own when you consider enrollment and demographics.

Would be interesting to compare then the 16-32 in 6A vs the top 16 in 5A.
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The top 10 of 5a would beat bottom 10 of 6a by multiple scores most years IMO
 


Gophers_4life said:
Maybe it's the right thing?

Obviously the elite 16 are truly in a class of their own when you consider enrollment and demographics.

Would be interesting to compare then the 16-32 in 6A vs the top 16 in 5A.
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Problem is that this all evolves with new developments in the burbs and communities becoming land locked. This is tough to predict. Anoka-Hennepin opened two new Elementary schools 3 years ago and they were over capacity by the time they opened and they are now having to do emergency redistricting of lines, forcing people back to older neighborhood schools.

The top 5A schools can compete with all the 17-32 teams. Elk River, Chaska, Chanhassen, Rogers, Andover, Mankato West, Kasson, to name a few. These communities are still all able to grow and have advantages over other communities.

This is also true of some of the 6A schools that will continue to grow. Forest Lake, Blaine, Cenntennial, Andover, Anoka/Ramsey. These communities in the North like many in the south, east and west can continue to grow and build for attracting young families.

Coon Rapids, Fridley, Columbia Heights, etc. are all fully developed and landlocked. The houses in these communities are 1/2 the size of those in the neighboring communities.

The MSHSL is dealing with moving targets that change drastically in a couple years, let alone 10.
 


DeathClutch said:
Yep, looks like it is ppv, on prep spotlight TV, for all quarter final games today. Semi's and finals will be on 45.
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Are you able to watch something online? My link just plays the intro. Thought something started at 10a.m.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Problem is that this all evolves with new developments in the burbs and communities becoming land locked. This is tough to predict. Anoka-Hennepin opened two new Elementary schools 3 years ago and they were over capacity by the time they opened and they are now having to do emergency redistricting of lines, forcing people back to older neighborhood schools.

The top 5A schools can compete with all the 17-32 teams. Elk River, Chaska, Chanhassen, Rogers, Andover, Mankato West, Kasson, to name a few. These communities are still all able to grow and have advantages over other communities.

This is also true of some of the 6A schools that will continue to grow. Forest Lake, Blaine, Cenntennial, Andover, Anoka/Ramsey. These communities in the North like many in the south, east and west can continue to grow and build for attracting young families.

Coon Rapids, Fridley, Columbia Heights, etc. are all fully developed and landlocked. The houses in these communities are 1/2 the size of those in the neighboring communities.

The MSHSL is dealing with moving targets that change drastically in a couple years, let alone 10.
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Which is why the MSHSL should focus on competitiveness and fairness and not try to legislate winning and losing for certain programs.

Saying 6a can only play 6a locks certain programs into losing seasons while at the same time exempting other from it. Just hypocrisy.


What we should do is create 8 team sections starting with the 8 smallest schools in the state….Combining geographic concerns to help preserve rivalries and travel costs. Fill up 8 team sections.

Your seasons last 7 weeks are the 7 other teams in your section. Weeks 1-2 you self schedule.
Teams over .500 in their section schedule automatically make playoffs. Fill in with 5–4 (3-4) to fill out the brackets. Break the ties of these teams by SOS of the records of opponents.

Smallest 32 teams play 9 man playoffs.
Next smallest 32 play 1a
Etc

Chaska could be a 5a playoff qualifier one year and a 6a playoff qualifier the next year.
224 teams would make 7 brackets of 32.

224 of the 332 teams would make the playoffs. 67%.
The 33% that didn’t would still play 9 games and two would be self scheduled so hopefully competitive. I would be okay having 6 brackets of 32 instead and having only 192 teams make playoffs (57%).

This is pretty similar to the wisconsin model. It also creates smaller levels of success to sell the community you’re in. Being top 4 and making it to US bank is basically the measure of success right now. It would be nice if a community could sell 5-4 (4-3) with a playoff birth as a huge success. Would breed people thinking their program is good. Right now there are like 20% of communities in the state that think they have healthy programs. If you created a different environment it would raise that number because there would be more measurable successes to achieve at the mid levels and non “football” people could easily see. If you could make it so 60-70% of communities think they’re successful that will grow the game and keep kids playing.
 
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I gave up on the High School league a long time ago . Their agenda seems rarely to serve students or schools. That said looking forward to watching some of the tournament ,some good storylines .
 


Some guy said:
Which is why the MSHSL should focus on competitiveness and fairness and not try to legislate winning and losing for certain programs.

Saying 6a can only play 6a locks certain programs into losing seasons while at the same time exempting other from it. Just hypocrisy.


What we should do is create 8 team sections starting with the 8 smallest schools in the state….Combining geographic concerns to help preserve rivalries and travel costs. Fill up 8 team sections.

Your seasons last 7 weeks are the 7 other teams in your section. Weeks 1-2 you self schedule.
Teams over .500 in their section schedule automatically make playoffs. Fill in with 5–4 (3-4) to fill out the brackets. Break the ties of these teams by SOS of the records of opponents.

Smallest 32 teams play 9 man playoffs.
Next smallest 32 play 1a
Etc

Chaska could be a 5a playoff qualifier one year and a 6a playoff qualifier the next year.
224 teams would make 7 brackets of 32.

224 of the 332 teams would make the playoffs. 67%.
The 33% that didn’t would still play 9 games and two would be self scheduled so hopefully competitive. I would be okay having 6 brackets of 32 instead and having only 192 teams make playoffs (57%).

This is pretty similar to the wisconsin model. It also creates smaller levels of success to sell the community you’re in. Being top 4 and making it to US bank is basically the measure of success right now. It would be nice if a community could sell 5-4 (4-3) with a playoff birth as a huge success. Would breed people thinking their program is good. Right now there are like 20% of communities in the state that think they have healthy programs. If you created a different environment it would raise that number because there would be more measurable successes to achieve at the mid levels and non “football” people could easily see. If you could make it so 60-70% of communities think they’re successful that will grow the game and keep kids playing.
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You make good points and I see positives to both ways of doing football. I agree that no one wins with 1-8 or 1-16 seeded games at the section level in any sport. Another option in basketball would be to have more byes and schedule like many conferences seed for tournaments.
 

TG up 15 on Hermantown.
Andover hanging with Park Center

and of note that all teams have already played 7+ players in the 1st half.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
You make good points and I see positives to both ways of doing football. I agree that no one wins with 1-8 or 1-16 seeded games at the section level in any sport. Another option in basketball would be to have more byes and schedule like many conferences seed for tournaments.
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Yeah. You can fix the north game by having double or single byes in sections with more than 8 teams.

I would argue for the top 4 getting byes even in 8 team sections.

1-2 get double byes, 3-4 get single byes.


5 plays 8, winner plays 4, winner plays 1
6 plays 7, winner plays 3, winner plays 2

More competitive games for more kids
 


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