What Coach Could Automatically Make Minnesota B-Ball Elite?

[BarnBurner]

You want their name on here ? Then you call them potshots or try insulting me. You know what coach and you know what players. Public information.

So you wont do it. As I suspected.

Public information yet you wont do it!!!!!!! BADGER

 

[TurfGopher]

Which coach?
Name the recruits.

Pitino, Reggie Lynch & Daquein McNeil

 

[Bad Gopher]

What a naive thread. No coach will automatically make Minnesota basketball "elite". There is probably a coach out there--somewhere--that has what it takes to build a consistent winner at Minnesota, but it would take time--more time than Beilein or Dutcher have remaining in their respective coaching careers.

This agrees with what I posted, but there's a valid counter-argument: UW. Bennett made them instantly competitive with average players and excellent coaching, and then Bo took it to the next level, winning a conference championship in his first year (the program's first since 1947).

This is why I'm sincerely glad for Wisconsin's success in basketball and football: it invalidates all the excuses by losers around here insisting that it's impossible or too hard to succeed. Look what Fran is doing in frickin Iowa City. Whoever doesn't think that can be accomplished in Minneapolis is a loser with a loser's mentality.

 

[Gopherfan84]

Pitino, Reggie Lynch & Daquein McNeil

Also add Kevin Dorsey and at the time Zach Lofton. To Zach's credit he seemed to grow from it after here and was successful.

 

[builtbadgers]

Why do people keep mentioning Muss or John Belein . John is very involved in a personal family matter, he will not be coming here. Muss is not leaving what he started at Arkansas for Minnesota.Find the Beard that is out there at either a lower level or on someones staff now. Coaches know, ask the top guys who they have seen work a clinic and have that special mark of a gifted teacher, can they build a staff of scouts and recruiters. You will always miss on recruits no matter who you are but you do not miss when you find that special teacher. God , it is amazing when you see it in a gym or a classroom. You know it right away. They make fundamentals come to life in a clear and exciting way. They never try to win the press conference , they never say we will push the pace. They talk about the obvious need to stop people from putting the ball in the basket your defending. If Naismith thought that putting the ball in the basket was the purpose of the game then it should not have taken long to figure out that stopping people from doing it was arguably more important. Find a defensive guy.

 

[Gopherfan84]

This agrees with what I posted, but there's a valid counter-argument: UW. Bennett made them instantly competitive with average players and excellent coaching, and then Bo took it to the next level, winning a conference championship in his first year (the program's first since 1947).

This is why I'm sincerely glad for Wisconsin's success in basketball and football: it invalidates all the excuses by losers around here insisting that it's impossible or too hard to succeed. Look what Fran is doing in frickin Iowa City. Whoever doesn't think that can't be accomplished in Minneapolis is a loser with a loser's mentality.

Fran's B1G record is 89-95. And it was worse a couple years ago. I get our limitations currently. I don't think we are unreasonable for expecting Iowa level success. Fran's had two terrible years, but he's also had two top 4 finishes and 7 top 6 finishes. I can live with that currently and I think many fans would be just fine. I don't think with our resources that is unattainable.

 

[tmvander]

This agrees with what I posted, but there's a valid counter-argument: UW. Bennett made them instantly competitive with average players and excellent coaching, and then Bo took it to the next level, winning a conference championship in his first year (the program's first since 1947).

This is why I'm sincerely glad for Wisconsin's success in basketball and football: it invalidates all the excuses by losers around here insisting that it's impossible or too hard to succeed. Look what Fran is doing in frickin Iowa City. Whoever doesn't think that can be accomplished in Minneapolis is a loser with a loser's mentality.

It's possible for sure and I think all the excuses you hear about are the wrong ones. The right one is just that we are MN sports fans and even though we CAN have winning teams we won't because the sports God's and stuff.

 

[builtbadgers]

I know Fleck used it for football but in truth the basketball program is the true sleeping giant at the U.

In so many ways your right. 19 YEARS AGO, i was involved in a task force to help determine what were the best opportunities to build a winner where it really had not been done or had not been done in a long time. It had guidelines on support, available support, pressure cover (ilke a pro team or a football team that covered you ) Had never found a great coach. We came up with ASU, Minnesota, Clemson. This was about identifying a coach that was coming back in. These schools were deemed too good, he wanted a total rebuild way out in the middle of nowhere, a place no one had won at. This job here is a great opportunity. This job is similar to UW and UVA.

 

[builtbadgers]

So you wont do it. As I suspected.

Public information yet you wont do it!!!!!!! BADGER

So you would not do it yourself !

 

[Gopherfan84]

In so many ways your right. 19 YEARS AGO, i was involved in a task force to help determine what were the best opportunities to build a winner where it really had not been done or had not been done in a long time. It had guidelines on support, available support, pressure cover (ilke a pro team or a football team that covered you ) Had never found a great coach. We came up with ASU, Minnesota, Clemson. This was about identifying a coach that was coming back in. These schools were deemed too good, he wanted a total rebuild way out in the middle of nowhere, a place no one had won at. This job here is a great opportunity. This job is similar to UW and UVA.

Thoughts on the pro sport market and urban university setting being a negative? We seem to be a unicorn in that fashion. I don't think it's a valid excuse, but would be interested on your thoughts since you've done some studies and work on it.

 

[BarnBurner]

So you would not do it yourself !

BADGER WOULD NOT DO IT!!!!

This demonstrates, perfectly, that your talk and walk dont match. You would never take your GH potshots at RP to his face, as demonstrated by your running away from the yes or no question. And here, you again run away - then come back after another poster lays it out!!!!



BADGER = FRAUD.

 

[builtbadgers]

This agrees with what I posted, but there's a valid counter-argument: UW. Bennett made them instantly competitive with average players and excellent coaching, and then Bo took it to the next level, winning a conference championship in his first year (the program's first since 1947).

This is why I'm sincerely glad for Wisconsin's success in basketball and football: it invalidates all the excuses by losers around here insisting that it's impossible or too hard to succeed. Look what Fran is doing in frickin Iowa City. Whoever doesn't think that can be accomplished in Minneapolis is a loser with a loser's mentality.

Exactly. Bennett would have built the same or better foundation here. He left Ryan with better facilities, a culture and a identity, 3 1st team all conference player and his son Tony on staff.Ryan would have won here. UW was worse than we were.There is only one reason we have not been at the UW level. Who got hired as coaches. I also would never put Iowa in the same universe as UW. UW has a 25 year resume that is one of a top 10 program.

 

[BarnBurner]

Why do people keep mentioning Muss or John Belein . John is very involved in a personal family matter, he will not be coming here. Muss is not leaving what he started at Arkansas for Minnesota.Find the Beard that is out there at either a lower level or on someones staff now. Coaches know, ask the top guys who they have seen work a clinic and have that special mark of a gifted teacher, can they build a staff of scouts and recruiters. You will always miss on recruits no matter who you are but you do not miss when you find that special teacher. God , it is amazing when you see it in a gym or a classroom. You know it right away. They make fundamentals come to life in a clear and exciting way. They never try to win the press conference , they never say we will push the pace. They talk about the obvious need to stop people from putting the ball in the basket your defending. If Naismith thought that putting the ball in the basket was the purpose of the game then it should not have taken long to figure out that stopping people from doing it was arguably more important. Find a defensive guy.

Well then, Coyle knows what to do.......doesnt he?

 

[builtbadgers]

Thoughts on the pro sport market and urban university setting being a negative? We seem to be a unicorn in that fashion. I don't think it's a valid excuse, but would be interested on your thoughts since you've done some studies and work on it.

I think it is pretty neutral. A smart coach would use it to his advantage but not in the way that seems common. Such as selling it to recruits. They would use it as a advantage to fly under the radar. The support will come with winning but the coach can have a university culture life. Fleck has done this. He is not competing with the Vikings. Now his personality likes the attention but only in the way to sell the program, improve the speed of the boat. Families and players are attracted to coaches they feel are winners, especially if your recruiting kids and families that are truly interested in academics and you are that person yourself. So hiring the right person is the only thing that makes the difference. Sure you will have recruits that like a more stand alone college experience and some that prefer the city. It is rarely mentioned but we have recruited on the level with UW and UVA. Some years better, some worse but their cohesion, their defense, their coaching, their evaluating are superior.

 

[Gopherfan84]

Well then, Coyle knows what to do.......doesnt he?

Not to get in the middle of your bickering, but I do think Coyle does this. It's part of his lists he creates in case any coach leaves. He's way more connected in that way than our previous two AD's. I truly believe he would fire Pitino if he had the money and autonomy to do it. Money for the buy out being the largest issue. Hopefully our donation fund can help the cause.

 

[BarnBurner]

Not to get in the middle of your bickering, but I do think Coyle does this. It's part of his lists he creates in case any coach leaves. He's way more connected in that way than our previous two AD's. I truly believe he would fire Pitino if he had the money and autonomy to do it. Money for the buy out being the largest issue. Hopefully our donation fund can help the cause.

Money for a buyout is a non issue - if you want to have a sustainable, top BB coach and program moving forward. Just isn't.

Great leaders make unpopular decisions all day long. Coyle punted at least once already on RP.

 

[Gopherfan84]

I think it is pretty neutral. A smart coach would use it to his advantage but not in the way that seems common. Such as selling it to recruits. They would use it as a advantage to fly under the radar. The support will come with winning but the coach can have a university culture life. Fleck has done this. He is not competing with the Vikings. Now his personality likes the attention but only in the way to sell the program, improve the speed of the boat. Families and players are attracted to coaches they feel are winners, especially if your recruiting kids and families that are truly interested in academics and you are that person yourself. So hiring the right person is the only thing that makes the difference. Sure you will have recruits that like a more stand alone college experience and some that prefer the city. It is rarely mentioned but we have recruited on the level with UW and UVA. Some years better, some worse but their cohesion, their defense, their coaching, their evaluating are superior.

I agree. It's about finding the right guy, but then that person needs to have a specific identity of kid he goes an gets. I think Pitino thought he had an idea of getting eastern kids who are used to metro but wanted to get out. It obviously flopped. I really like the idea of utilizing and going into the foreign markets. I think he's working on adding length, but seems a little too late for me.

 

[builtbadgers]

I agree. It's about finding the right guy, but then that person needs to have a specific identity of kid he goes an gets. I think Pitino thought he had an idea of getting eastern kids who are used to metro but wanted to get out. It obviously flopped. I really like the idea of utilizing and going into the foreign markets. I think he's working on adding length, but seems a little too late for me.

My opinion is he cut corners on character and never established a defensive identity, a toughness. Perhaps he will be able to get that out of this roster.

 

[Gopherfan84]

Money for a buyout is a non issue - if you want to have a sustainable, top BB coach and program moving forward. Just isn't.

Great leaders make unpopular decisions all day long. Coyle punted at least once already on RP.

Sadly I believe it still is here. It's an issue in our program and why I bring up the pro sports market sometimes hurting us. It takes some resources and I don't think MN's are as sport's crazed (at least our boosters aren't) as say Auburn or Texas A&M where they would be willing to cover it.

The non bolded portion we are in agreement on. It's a need to create sustainable top BB program and leaders need to make tough decisions (like cutting non revenue sports during a pandemic)

 

[builtbadgers]

Sadly I believe it still is here. It's an issue in our program and why I bring up the pro sports market sometimes hurting us. It takes some resources and I don't think MN's are as sport's crazed (at least our boosters aren't) as say Auburn or Texas A&M where they would be willing to cover it.

The non bolded portion we are in agreement on. It's a need to create sustainable top BB program and leaders need to make tough decisions (like cutting non revenue sports during a pandemic)

Our largest donors pale in comparison to places like Texas AM. It is not because they are giving it to pro teams. It is a lack of success. When people believe , when we win they show up. Think what we lost just in revenue watching crowds go from 14,000 to 9,000. People near me in 106 gave up a long time ago.

 

[Gopherfan84]

Our largest donors pale in comparison to places like Texas AM. It is not because they are giving it to pro teams. It is a lack of success. When people believe , when we win they show up. Think what we lost just in revenue watching crowds go from 14,000 to 9,000. People near me in 106 gave up a long time ago.

So will they help with a buyout if Coyle asks? If so then I'll gladly admit my being wrong, but I truly believe the only reason Pitino is still here is because of money.

 

[builtbadgers]

So will they help with a buyout if Coyle asks? If so then I'll gladly admit my being wrong, but I truly believe the only reason Pitino is still here is because of money.

May depend on who he says he can hire. How they go about it. To me, Coyle either still believes in Pitino or Covid simply saved his job.

 

[BarnBurner]

Sadly I believe it still is here. It's an issue in our program and why I bring up the pro sports market sometimes hurting us. It takes some resources and I don't think MN's are as sport's crazed (at least our boosters aren't) as say Auburn or Texas A&M where they would be willing to cover it.

The non bolded portion we are in agreement on. It's a need to create sustainable top BB program and leaders need to make tough decisions (like cutting non revenue sports during a pandemic)

It is Coyles job to convince/persuade that change needs to happen, period. Now. If he cant gain traction, based on 7 plus years of job performance, it just wont ever happen here. He could have made a change spring 2020 and punted. Those are facts.

Did you buy any securities mid March, or did you wait until this fall?

 

[TNGophfan]

Ben McCollum at Northwest Missouri state. Won’t make them instantly better but hopefully players would improve as opposed to regress while playing. I can’t believe the numbers of players that come to Minnesota and appear to regress no matter who the coach is.

"Northwest Missouri State coach Ben McCollum, 35, wins Bearcats’ first Division II basketball title after creating winning culture | The Kansas City Star" https://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/article141852509.html

Nice article on his philosophy and style. Think its what you look for for long term success.

 

[BarnBurner]

May depend on who he says he can hire. How they go about it. To me, Coyle either still believes in Pitino or Covid simply saved his job.

You know the answer to your last line, BADGER. Nice try at posturing.......

 

[From the Parkinglot]

Sadly I believe it still is here. It's an issue in our program and why I bring up the pro sports market sometimes hurting us. It takes some resources and I don't think MN's are as sport's crazed (at least our boosters aren't) as say Auburn or Texas A&M where they would be willing to cover it.

The non bolded portion we are in agreement on. It's a need to create sustainable top BB program and leaders need to make tough decisions (like cutting non revenue sports during a pandemic)

I would argue that like most people Minnesotans are front runners and will cheer for a winner regardless of the sport. Think about all the people that watched the soccer team play the other night that had never seen a soccer game. If you win people will care about it, especially with how bad the twolves are and will continue to be. Minnesotans also like basketball and have craved a good basketball program for the last 2 years.

 

[Bad Gopher]

Fran's B1G record is 89-95. And it was worse a couple years ago. I get our limitations currently. I don't think we are unreasonable for expecting Iowa level success. Fran's had two terrible years, but he's also had two top 4 finishes and 7 top 6 finishes. I can live with that currently and I think many fans would be just fine. I don't think with our resources that is unattainable.

I would gladly take 89-95 as a mean with a standard deviation that produces what Iowa has on the floor now. I'm totally fine with a down year now and then--heck, we're experiencing that this year in football, and as long as there's a long-term upward trend, it's all good. Clem Haskins went 119-120 in conference play, but that included three deep NCAA runs, a Final Four, a conference championship, and two NIT championships. That's a lot of achievements and a lot of good memories (and a lot of season tickets sold) in only 13 years. Obviously, the version of that where they don't get caught doing what everyone else is doing is what we're still looking to get back to here.

 

[Gopherfan84]

It is Coyles job to convince/persuade that change needs to happen, period. Now. If he cant gain traction, based on 7 plus years of job performance, it just wont ever happen here. He could have made a change spring 2020 and punted. Those are facts.

Did you buy any securities mid March, or did you wait until this fall?

I know your a fan of these, but it's still more bureaucratic than that. Regents need to support it too. If you'd like to call it a punt then please go ahead. I think from an admin standpoint they knew they were cutting other sports and with optics being so important here, they didn't want to cut sports and pay millions on a buyout. That is my opinion from everything I've read and heard. I know you like to point out the one firing in the NCAA D1 Power 5 Basketball as an example, but the coaching market was reduced and lots of coaches jobs were saved by Covid. That's a fact too.

I bought no securities, my household has young children and lost income. My investment money let alone any for donations was reduced this year. It is what it is, but we still live with plenty of comfort thankfully.

 

[Gopherfan84]

I would gladly take 89-95 as a mean with a standard deviation that produces what Iowa has on the floor now. I'm totally fine with a down year now and then--heck, we're experiencing that this year in football, and as long as there's a long-term upward trend, it's all good. Clem Haskins went 119-120 in conference play, but that included three deep NCAA runs, a Final Four, a conference championship, and two NIT championships. That's a lot of achievements and a lot of good memories (and a lot of season tickets sold) in only 13 years. Obviously, the version of that where they don't get caught doing what everyone else is doing is what we're still looking to get back to here.

Fran bought himself time. He had the strong group with Woodbury and a couple bad years and now built it up again. I agree with you that our current coach hasn't really given us that.

 

[Bad Gopher]

Fran bought himself time. He had the strong group with Woodbury and a couple bad years and now built it up again. I agree with you that our current coach hasn't really given us that.

I put Fran and Brad Underwood in the category of: the first time I saw their team play, I knew they'd be successful in the Big Ten. Those are teams that know what they're doing out there, and they do it with consistency and determination. I see flashes from Pitino's teams, but they don't carry it through games and seasons. When they've had exceptional player leadership (e.g., Akeem Springs), it's been better, as those teams were self policing and motivating, but realistically that has to be a partnership between the players and the coaching staff.