Strip sack was NOT Schlueter's fault, it was a bad play

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btowngopher said:
He was essentially fired from ND? Yet was hired to be a head coach away from ND?
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The D-coord from that awful ND season was fired, not Sanford.

What Sanford then did to WKU, after where Brohm had gotten them, is another story.
 

noamfromm said:
I even like the call MPLS was ripping in this thread.
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I am not ripping play action. I love play action. We need play action. It's part of the core of what we are on offense.

I was simply explaining that Schlueter was put in an difficult position to be successful on that play. It wasn't simply a normal dropback and he just got plain beat by a superior pass-rush. That is not at all what happened.
 

MplsGopher said:
I am not ripping play action. I love play action. We need play action. It's part of the core of what we are on offense.

I was simply explaining that Schlueter was put in an difficult position to be successful on that play. It wasn't simply a normal dropback and he just got plain beat by a superior pass-rush. That is not at all what happened.
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I wasn't commenting on play action -- I just thought you were ripping the specific call not play action writ large.
 

noamfromm said:
I wasn't commenting on play action -- I just thought you were ripping the specific call not play action writ large.
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When the coaches are watching the tape today together, if I'm PJ Fleck, the very first thing I'm saying/asking after that play is "Mike, explain why we called play action here, on this particular 2nd & 7 and this field position".

He may well have a very good reason. Or maybe it was just a gut feel. None of us will ever get to know his answer.
 

MplsGopher said:
When the coaches are watching the tape today together, if I'm PJ Fleck, the very first thing I'm saying/asking after that play is "Mike, explain why we called play action here, on this particular 2nd & 7 and this field position".

He may well have a very good reason. Or maybe it was just a gut feel. None of us will ever get to know his answer.
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Fleck in the postgame presser seemed to like the call or at least understand it. He said something to the effect that on the strip sack we had Tanner throwing to a wide open Wright and that its a game of seconds (this is all paraphrased from memory)
 


noamfromm said:
Fleck in the postgame presser seemed to like the call or at least understand it. He said something to the effect that on the strip sack we had Tanner throwing to a wide open Wright and that its a game of seconds (this is all paraphrased from memory)
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I also recall him saying that the play was a critical moment in the game.

I have no doubt they'll have some kind of discussion about it. Why did we do that play, what could we have done better, how to fix this in practice? Etc.
 

MplsGopher said:
I also recall him saying that the play was a critical moment in the game.

I have no doubt they'll have some kind of discussion about it. Why did we do that play, what could we have done better, how to fix this in practice? Etc.
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I think they'll probably just hire scools, gangsta, etc as analysts to tell them that their defense sucks, they have no hope against any B1G team and that we should just drop down to FCS.
 

MplsGopher said:
When the coaches are watching the tape today together, if I'm PJ Fleck, the very first thing I'm saying/asking after that play is "Mike, explain why we called play action here, on this particular 2nd & 7 and this field position".

He may well have a very good reason. Or maybe it was just a gut feel. None of us will ever get to know his answer.
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The left tackle's job is to make sure his man is blocked, if the tackle sees he isn't going to play the run, he needs to adjust. He didn't. While the coaching was pretty horseshit all night, you can still block your man on a pass play.
 




Mpls pointed out a pretty crucial element in the resulting disaster. I think there is blame to go all-around. 1. The design of the play. 2. The left tackle needs to do a better job. 3. Callahan needs to have anticipated the possible dilemma the play puts the tackle in and instilled the proper thoughts, mindset, footwork that would have avoided the result. 4. Tanner needs to do a better job sensing the situation and step up in the pocket or otherwise avoid the rush or protect the football. 5. Somebody needed to express concerns about the design and make everyone more aware.
Might have all happened and the Buckeye was just superhuman on that play...but we contributed to his success.
 

haef7 said:
The left tackle's job is to make sure his man is blocked, if the tackle sees he isn't going to play the run, he needs to adjust. He didn't. While the coaching was pretty horseshit all night, you can still block your man on a pass play.
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You a Gopher fan? I see that you're new... here for the right reasons?
 





haef7 said:
Schlueter didn't block his man, it's a missed assignment.
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OK, this confirms you've never played football and are clueless what these terminologies mean.
 


haef7 said:
You keep saying that, so are you saying his job wasn't to block the defensive end that lined up directly on him?
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That's not what the term MA is used for.
 



MplsGopher said:
Maybe Sanford was trying to anticipate something from OSU's d-coord?

It was 2nd & 7. Maybe he thought they would try to do a run-stuffing stunt/blitz/alignment? Something he had seen them do previously in the game, or on tape from last season?


But the DE raced up the field like he knew it was a pass. Was that talent, was that their D-coord calling that, was it luck? Don't know.
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Five plays before the ball strip the same OSU player was within 4 inches of the same results. OSU end was really good. We did add a TE to help that side after the play.
 


haef7 said:
There's just no way you can say he doesn't carry any fault for not blocking his man, on a simple play action pass.
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The main message I wanted to convey was that it wasn’t like it was a simple dropback pass where Schlueter just plain got beat by a pass rush move. That absolutely did not happen, and the play call contributed significantly to the failure of the play.

If you don’t understand why it’s significantly more difficult to block that DE with a fake run footwork/technique and with a normal pass-pro technique - then you don’t have a clue what you’re taking about and need to stop posting.
 

Five Toes said:
Five plays before the ball strip the same OSU player was within 4 inches of the same results. OSU end was really good. We did add a TE to help that side after the play.
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If you say so …

So this beast, unstoppable DE must’ve have had several sacks and pressures throughout the game against overmatched Schlueter, then, correct?

How many are we talking here?
 

MplsGopher said:
The main message I wanted to convey was that it wasn’t like it was a simple dropback pass where Schlueter just plain got beat by a pass rush move. That absolutely did not happen, and the play call contributed significantly to the failure of the play.

If you don’t understand why it’s significantly more difficult to block that DE with a fake run footwork/technique and with a normal pass-pro technique - then you don’t have a clue what you’re taking about and need to stop posting.
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Tough block, didn't make it. Doesn't mean he's 0% at fault. And doesn't mean it's always OCs fault, the other team gets to play and call certain plays too. Doesn't mean LT can't make a tough block.
 


MplsGopher said:

Go to around 10:41 mark ... the broadcast cuts over to the skycam view quickly between 10:42 and 10:43 with the play already in motion.

It was a run fake ... so they're asking Schlueter to do a (fake) run-blocking technique, which already puts him behind the 8-ball against a guy firing out of his stance and racing up field. Was by him instantly, had no chance to recover.

The biggest problem: Mo was lined up on the right side of Tanner for the fake hand-off, and was slow to get over to the left side to help. You can see him initially stop behind the LG ... and by the time he realizes the End raced past Schlueter it's too late to help.


I put the blame for this on Sanford.
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Just got down with this play in my OL grading.
You are correct in that it was PA, but not in what technique Sam used.
I also don't think this play is on Sanford (I still have problems with some of the stuff he does, but not with this play call/design).

Sam does not take a run step at all. His first steps are to pass set the DE(they ask the OT to do that even on running plays due to the RPO as it gives the DB's and S a bad read). He doesn't move his feet quick enough, tries to arm bar him past Tanner, but the DE is able to run the circle for the strip sack.

The play design was fine. Mo was on the right side and steps left to take the fake, but on his run fake part of it he looks to the right and doesn't see the trouble to the left until it is too late.

They ran this play or a version of this play at least 3 other times prior to this one and had success. This time Sam got beat by a damn good DE who got home for the strip.

It also didn't help that JMS didn't block the DT he was assigned to. That guy was the one who got the bounce and scored.
 
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GFBfan said:
Sam does not take a run step at all. His first steps are to pass set the DE(they ask the OT to do that even on running plays due to the RPO as it gives the DB's and S a bad read). He doesn't move his feet quick enough, tries to arm bar him past Tanner, but the DE is able to run the circle for the strip sack.
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This is just not correct. Not sure if we’re watching the same play.

He takes run steps towards him laterally, instead of backwards kick/slide steps. That’s a huge part of what screws it up. He would’ve had a much easier time if he was doing pass-pro footwork.
 


MplsGopher said:
This is just not correct. Not sure if we’re watching the same play.

He takes run steps towards him laterally, instead of backwards kick/slide steps. That’s a huge part of what screws it up. He would’ve had a much easier time if he was doing pass-pro footwork.
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Here are two plays, one is the strip sack and the other is a running play.
The footwork he uses on both are similar. Those are not run steps.
One difference is on the strip sack he has a TE to his side which widens the DE. He doesn't have the quickness on that play to get to him and gives up the sack.
Nothing wrong with the play, just the execution.
 


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