Still have faith in Pitino?

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Here's how I see it. Tubby was fitted for how the big ten season went the last three years. Every coach should get five Yeats IMO. So will see where this program is at when mason kotate and juju are seniors. I like the recruits were bringing in next year. Hurt will be good. Hopefully we land Coffey and Trent.Those are the type of recruits that win conference titles and go on deep tourney runs. I like what pitino is doing who he's bringing in. I think the majority of the players are developing. King and no have improved. Morris has gotten better during the season. Mason has great poise for a frosh. Konate is taking baby steps. Mac Neil was getting better but no need to go there. I think pitino is trying to run his system more this year and some guys on the roster sent cut out. Next year will be rebuild probably a 7-11 type year. I still think this team can get hot. Hit some free throws and take care of the ball.
 

It's been painfully obvious this bunch is going nowhere this season, Pitino included. If that's enough for some folks to give up on him entirely, then so be it. That's their call. Pitino is a young coach who unfortunately is learning on the job, which could make some very long months and possibly years ahead. Has he done a good job? No. Can he turn it around at some point? Perhaps, but this won't be the year. Watching this team play is liking poking yourself in the eye with a spike. Maybe both he and the team can get better in the future, but he'll need time to get there.
 

dpodoll68 said:
I wouldn't have fired Tubby Smith in the first place, particularly not after the school's best season in 23 years. But putting that aside, I wouldn't have hired a 30-year-old with 1 year of head coaching experience to be a head coach in the Big Ten. But putting that aside, now that he's here, if he doesn't make the Tournament by the end of 2015-16, he should be gone in my book. You don't fire a coach with 3 tournament appearances in 6 years (never before done at this school) and Tournament appearances in his 2nd and 3rd years to keep a coach who can't make one (let alone two) in 3 years. People hated Tubby so much and wanted him gone so badly that they couldn't see how firing him set his successor up for unrealistic expectations.
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Just a hint, your argument would be stronger if you got rid of the bolded part... trying to convince people that we should have kept a coach who might go 0-18 in the Big 12 this year isn't the best way to win an argument.
 

dpodoll68 said:
I wouldn't have fired Tubby Smith in the first place, particularly not after the school's best season in 23 years. But putting that aside, I wouldn't have hired a 30-year-old with 1 year of head coaching experience to be a head coach in the Big Ten. But putting that aside, now that he's here, if he doesn't make the Tournament by the end of 2015-16, he should be gone in my book. You don't fire a coach with 3 tournament appearances in 6 years (never before done at this school) and Tournament appearances in his 2nd and 3rd years to keep a coach who can't make one (let alone two) in 3 years. People hated Tubby so much and wanted him gone so badly that they couldn't see how firing him set his successor up for unrealistic expectations.
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Get out a piece of graph paper. Draw a flat horizontal line on it and you have described Tubby's future path as a basketball coach. The results with Pitino in the short term may look like a sine wave but in the longer term with a little patience I think we will see a really nice trend line.
 


bemidjigopher said:
Here's how I see it. Tubby was fitted for how the big ten season went the last three years. Every coach should get five Yeats IMO. So will see where this program is at when mason kotate and juju are seniors. I like the recruits were bringing in next year. Hurt will be good. Hopefully we land Coffey and Trent.Those are the type of recruits that win conference titles and go on deep tourney runs. I like what pitino is doing who he's bringing in. I think the majority of the players are developing. King and no have improved. Morris has gotten better during the season. Mason has great poise for a frosh. Konate is taking baby steps. Mac Neil was getting better but no need to go there. I think pitino is trying to run his system more this year and some guys on the roster sent cut out. Next year will be rebuild probably a 7-11 type year. I still think this team can get hot. Hit some free throws and take care of the ball.
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I think Pitino is a Robert Frost guy- doesn't fancy Yeats.
 

John Galt said:
Just a hint, your argument would be stronger if you got rid of the bolded part... trying to convince people that we should have kept a coach who might go 0-18 in the Big 12 this year isn't the best way to win an argument.
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If we're throwing out conjecture, Pitino might go 1-17 in the Big Ten this year. Smith's predecessor was 3-15 in the Big 12. Pitino's was 8-10 and won an NCAA Tournament game. Who's doing a worse job relative to their predecessor?
 

I didn't read more than the first page of comments on this thread before I came to the conclusion that this thread is absolutely f***ing ridiculous. If you give up on a coach after a year and a half then go cheer for a different team. I don't want you to cheer for the same team I do and give the rest of us gopher fans a bad reputation of supporting our team. (If after 4 years it's still like this thats okay to look in a new direction.)

If you've been watching the games you know they are in it. Players are improving statistically over past years even if our "Eye test" says differently. The coaches are doing their job.
 




dpodoll68 said:
Smith's predecessor was 3-15 in the Big 12. Pitino's was 8-10 and won an NCAA Tournament game.
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Forget this season. Pitino should be fired for not playing Mbakwe, Williams, Coleman, Welch and Ingram last year.
 

bga1 said:
Get out a piece of graph paper. Draw a flat horizontal line on it and you have described Tubby's future path as a basketball coach. The results with Pitino in the short term may look like a sine wave but in the longer term with a little patience I think we will see a really nice trend line.
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I know it's not popular on gopherhole but I agree with Dpo when it comes to Tubby. I never thought Tubby deserved to be fired, especially with our program's history. Not sure how anyone to this point can say firing Tubby for Pitino was the right decision? We didn't make the NCAA Tourney last year and we aren't making it this year. If Pitino doesn't make it next year his seat is going to get extremely hot imo.
 

lakesgopher said:
I know it's not popular on gopherhole but I agree with Dpo when it comes to Tubby. I never thought Tubby deserved to be fired, especially with our program's history. Not sure how anyone to this point can say firing Tubby for Pitino was the right decision? We didn't make the NCAA Tourney last year and we aren't making it this year. If Pitino doesn't make it next year his seat is going to get extremely hot imo.
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Tubby should have gotten 1 more year. But we are now 2 years removed from that. Will people move the f*** on from that?
 

dpodoll68 said:
I wouldn't have fired Tubby Smith in the first place, particularly not after the school's best season in 23 years. But putting that aside, I wouldn't have hired a 30-year-old with 1 year of head coaching experience to be a head coach in the Big Ten. But putting that aside, now that he's here, if he doesn't make the Tournament by the end of 2015-16, he should be gone in my book. You don't fire a coach with 3 tournament appearances in 6 years (never before done at this school) and Tournament appearances in his 2nd and 3rd years to keep a coach who can't make one (let alone two) in 3 years. People hated Tubby so much and wanted him gone so badly that they couldn't see how firing him set his successor up for unrealistic expectations.
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Exaggerate much? Very few people here (much less Gopher fans in general) 'hated' Tubby. Personally, I was on the fence about firing him. He wasn't fired for 'only' getting us to the second round. He was fired because it was very difficult to see them getting better from there. His last two fall recruiting classes did not show a positive trend. It seemed awfully likely that no matter how long he stayed, 2012-2013 would probably be his 'best' season. Going 8-10 in the B1G, squeaking into the NCAAs and winning a game is OK in any given year. But it's not OK for that to be the ceiling.

The Broncos just fired John Fox after he won 4 straight Division titles and I've heard less outrage in the national media than when we fired Tubby. They fired him for a similar reason. Not because the results this given year were horrible, but because if he couldn't win the Super Bowl with this group in 3 tries, he probably never will.
 



Tim1406 said:
Tubby should have gotten 1 more year. But we are now 2 years removed from that. Will people move the f*** on from that?
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I agree, but I was responding to the conversation. I would be fine not talking about Tubby in the future
 

Alvin Ellis and Alex Foster are both averaging less than 10 minutes and 2 points per game. Anyone who thinks we would be better off with the two of them, Joe Coleman and Wally being coached up by Tubby in place of Mathieu, Mason, King and Morris, raise your hand.
 

howeda7 said:
Exaggerate much? Very few people here (much less Gopher fans in general) 'hated' Tubby. Personally, I was on the fence about firing him. He wasn't fired for 'only' getting us to the second round. He was fired because it was very difficult to see them getting better from there. His last two fall recruiting classes did not show a positive trend. It seemed awfully likely that no matter how long he stayed, 2012-2013 would probably be his 'best' season. Going 8-10 in the B1G, squeaking into the NCAAs and winning a game is OK in any given year. But it's not OK for that to be the ceiling.
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Yep. Pretty much sums up how I feel about it.
 

dpodoll68 said:
If we're throwing out conjecture, Pitino might go 1-17 in the Big Ten this year. Smith's predecessor was 3-15 in the Big 12. Pitino's was 8-10 and won an NCAA Tournament game. Who's doing a worse job relative to their predecessor?
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Quit being so bullheaded, I'm agreeing with half of your point. You can make the argument that Pitino wasn't experienced enough for the job. You can't make an argument that the program was going anywhere under Tubby. Just like Texas Tech isn't.
 

lakesgopher said:
I know it's not popular on gopherhole but I agree with Dpo when it comes to Tubby. I never thought Tubby deserved to be fired, especially with our program's history. Not sure how anyone to this point can say firing Tubby for Pitino was the right decision? We didn't make the NCAA Tourney last year and we aren't making it this year. If Pitino doesn't make it next year his seat is going to get extremely hot imo.
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It wasn't the present that Teague was focused on- it was the future. Tubby looked tired of it, the recruiting, the whole thing. Texas Tech has the proof.

If Pitino doesn't look like he has accumulated the talent to make a run in the future- his seat will be hot. If everybody is looking at what we have and says- "man, wait until next year when these guys have a year under their belt and the 2016 guys (Hurt and company) come in"- then he has no problem. 16-17 is when a failure heats his chair up, 15-16 just has to look promising.
 

John Galt said:
Quit being so bullheaded, I'm agreeing with half of your point. You can make the argument that Pitino wasn't experienced enough for the job. You can't make an argument that the program was going anywhere under Tubby. Just like Texas Tech isn't.
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You can't ask a person to give up his entire persona. Not fair. :)
 

John Galt said:
Interesting take given that Pitino recruited King...
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Agreed. I think Pitino only took King because he was desperate for a PF and he could play right away because of his family situation. I doubt he'd recruit King out of HS.
 

Teague went for the next big thing in coaching before he was the next big thing. As stated reasonably in this thread, our real question isn't will Pitino be successful but will he be successful here. Its not an issue of faith but timing.

As someone else reasonably stated, we've been in every game, and in position to win a bunch of games save for effective execution. So we're not crap. This team closed out games pretty well last year. Not this year.

Pitino inherited a guy like Buggs who we could never find a word about during his recruitment and accomplished something last week I've never seen happen before: a lane violation on his own freethrow attempt. Huh? He's kind of adorable, but do I have faith in his development? Uh, no. (Bret Lawson was a better bet and who saw that coming?) And Joey is excelling to the limit of his ability. These are our seniors, plus Squirrel who certainly has the most potential upside.

I suspect there's a some middle aged men here who can't stand that some snot-nosed kid of 30 got this job 'based on his name'. Bet you've seen it happen before and it bugs the hell out of you.

Kill looked like a disaster. Now he's not. Let things unfold, and support the team through this - or give up if thats who you are.
 

bga1 said:
It wasn't the present that Teague was focused on- it was the future. Tubby looked tired of it, the recruiting, the whole thing. Texas Tech has the proof.

If Pitino doesn't look like he has accumulated the talent to make a run in the future- his seat will be hot. If everybody is looking at what we have and says- "man, wait until next year when these guys have a year under their belt and the 2016 guys (Hurt and company) come in"- then he has no problem. 16-17 is when a failure heats his chair up, 15-16 just has to look promising.
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Correct. I think it takes a couple decent recruiting classes to make some noise and attract major recruits to the program. So the lack of 5 star athletes doesn't bother me. The whole question here is if he can coach well enough to make the first splash with the guys he can get. If so, look out. I'm pretty sure Pitino will be leaving Minnesota on his terms and we won't be disappointed by the hire...
 


Trying to say pitino is better than tubby, but all it is posting is tubby
 

Moonlight said:
I suspect there's a some middle aged men here who can't stand that some snot-nosed kid of 30 got this job 'based on his name'.
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I'm 34. Does that count as middle-aged? I "can't stand" that he got the job because I don't want my school to be paying a 7-figure salary for his OJT while piling up conference losses and missing the NCAA Tournament.

Moonlight said:
Kill looked like a disaster.
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When was this? The team has gotten appreciably better, both by record and the "eye test", each and every season. Pitino's team has regressed, hard, in his second season. Also, Kill was a DII walk-on and earned every opportunity he's had in his life, and has been paid for his coaching services almost as long as Pitino has been alive. It would be difficult for the two to be more dissimilar.
 


dpodoll68 said:
I'm 34. Does that count as middle-aged? I "can't stand" that he got the job because I don't want my school to be paying a 7-figure salary for his OJT while piling up conference losses and missing the NCAA Tournament.



When was this? The team has gotten appreciably better, both by record and the "eye test", each and every season. Pitino's team has regressed, hard, in his second season. Also, Kill was a DII walk-on and earned every opportunity he's had in his life, and has been paid for his coaching services almost as long as Pitino has been alive. It would be difficult for the two to be more dissimilar.
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Man you would've really hated Clem his first two years. Its frustrating but this team is right them. Next 4 ate winnanle. That happens will be right there
 

I think we have different definitions of disaster, and yes, I can see that this hire has hit a nerve for you. Thanks for admitting it.
 

Moonlight said:
Teague went for the next big thing in coaching before he was the next big thing. As stated reasonably in this thread, our real question isn't will Pitino be successful but will he be successful here. Its not an issue of faith but timing.

As someone else reasonably stated, we've been in every game, and in position to win a bunch of games save for effective execution. So we're not crap. This team closed out games pretty well last year. Not this year.

Pitino inherited a guy like Buggs who we could never find a word about during his recruitment and accomplished something last week I've never seen happen before: a lane violation on his own freethrow attempt. Huh? He's kind of adorable, but do I have faith in his development? Uh, no. (Bret Lawson was a better bet and who saw that coming?) And Joey is excelling to the limit of his ability. These are our seniors, plus Squirrel who certainly has the most potential upside.

I suspect there's a some middle aged men here who can't stand that some snot-nosed kid of 30 got this job 'based on his name'. Bet you've seen it happen before and it bugs the hell out of you.

Kill looked like a disaster. Now he's not. Let things unfold, and support the team through this - or give up if thats who you are.
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You've never seen a lane violation by the FT shooter? Ever?
 


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