Still have faith in Pitino?

Can we STOP the Tubby pissing matches?

Here's an idea... an all things Tubby Smith thread... and write a script that auto deletes any post outside of that thread with his name in it.
 

This is what gets me every time. People will make excuses for Pitino, but then turn around and bash Tubby, not acknowledging that he was faced with the exact same obstacles to recruiting and developing players. That does not mean I want him back, but when are people going to stop making excuses for Pitino and then in the same instance blame Tubby? Give it up already.


People are always going to compare the last coach with the current one. Tubby has a few special bobos that pop on here from time to time to remind us how great we had it when we were occasionally rewarded with a 6th place 9-9 team. That's usually enough to stir the pot. Just live with it.
 

Can we STOP the Tubby pissing matches?

Here's an idea... an all things Tubby Smith thread... and write a script that auto deletes any post outside of that thread with his name in it.

Why? I understand why some of the cheap shots might rub people the wrong way, but he's part of the story of Gophers men's basketball. It's only natural to compare the current coaching regime against the previous one, understanding they faced a similar set of circumstances/challenges. This is a thread about Pitino, not a random thread about (insert title here). Completely reasonable to compare the two at the same point in their coaching tenure here at Minnesota.

For the record, Tubby probably gets the nod after year two for me.
 

IMO, Pitino's biggest problem this year is that they essentially over achieved last year, now he is under achieving.

I can't recall the predictions, but last years team lost Trevor Mbakwe and Rodney Williams. The two best/most athletic bigs. In their place we had 360 pound Mo Walker, EE, and freshman Alex Foster.

So MN lost (arguably) the two best players from a 9-9 b1g team that won a tournament game.

I can't imagine many expected that the next years team would go 8-10 in the b1g and win the NIT.

My point is, if Pitino isn't as successful as he was last year, people may not be quite as upset this year.
 

It's only natural to compare the current coaching regime against the previous one, understanding they faced a similar set of circumstances/challenges

I agree... It would just be nice if people could talk about him an a semi-mature manner.
 


This is what gets me every time. People will make excuses for Pitino, but then turn around and bash Tubby, not acknowledging that he was faced with the exact same obstacles to recruiting and developing players. That does not mean I want him back, but when are people going to stop making excuses for Pitino and then in the same instance blame Tubby? Give it up already.

You are getting there. Tiny hated Tubby so much. There are a few more out there. You'll see.
 

IMO, Pitino's biggest problem this year is that they essentially over achieved last year, now he is under achieving.

I can't recall the predictions, but last years team lost Trevor Mbakwe and Rodney Williams. The two best/most athletic bigs. In their place we had 360 pound Mo Walker, EE, and freshman Alex Foster.

So MN lost (arguably) the two best players from a 9-9 b1g team that won a tournament game.

I can't imagine many expected that the next years team would go 8-10 in the b1g and win the NIT.

My point is, if Pitino isn't as successful as he was last year, people may not be quite as upset this year.

Maybe it has a marginal effect, but if two years removed from a team in the round of 32, we are worried about missing the NIT, I'd be upset with this year regardless of what last year looked like.
 

IMO, Pitino's biggest problem this year is that they essentially over achieved last year, now he is under achieving.


So MN lost (arguably) the two best players from a 9-9 b1g team that won a tournament game.

8-10 and it's 8-11 if you count the opening game loss to Illinois in the Big Ten tournament.
 

This is what gets me every time. People will make excuses for Pitino, but then turn around and bash Tubby, not acknowledging that he was faced with the exact same obstacles to recruiting and developing players.

There's a very simple explanation for that. If you assume that Pitino is better than Tubby but has been held back these first two years by things not completely in his control, then you have reason to expect the future to be much brighter when the effects of the new savior start manifesting themselves more strongly. On the other hand, if you believe that Pitino is no better than Tubby, then why would you have very strong faith in a much brighter future?

I really don't know who will be the better of the two and right now that doesn't matter because Pitino is the only choice I have.
 



There's a very simple explanation for that. If you assume that Pitino is better than Tubby but has been held back these first two years by things not completely in his control, then you have reason to expect the future to be much brighter when the effects of the new savior start manifesting themselves more strongly. On the other hand, if you believe that Pitino is no better than Tubby, then why would you have very strong faith in a much brighter future?

I really don't know who will be the better of the two and right now that doesn't matter because Pitino is the only choice I have.

It's apples and oranges. Tubby was retiring gradually while on the job. Tubby was not let go for poor performance- he was let go because the AD didn't believe he was the best bet to change the performance curve of the program. We don't know what will happen with Pitino but he's here because he has shown passion, potential and energy to build a future here.
 

You are getting there. Tiny hated Tubby so much. There are a few more out there. You'll see.

I didn't hate Tubby. He seems to be a genuinely good guy. He simply was ineffective offensively. I always applauded his ability to coach and teach defense. He failed here because he couldn't produce an offense that provided movement and open looks for his players.

If you watch Pitino's offense, even though we haven't won many B1G games this season, the kids get open looks and the offensive flow is much, much better than what Tubby produced. Our flaws this season can be traced to two major things. One, we are a poor rebounding team. Two, we have not cherished our possessions. The latter point can be attributed first to Mathieu falling significantly below last years contributions. We are weak at both forward positions and it has cost us more than a handful of games.

If we wish to compare Tubby in his second year at TTU and Richard in his second year at MN, we can. Which program has had the more cringe-worthy games? I'll give Tubby some props. He pulled that win over ISU out of his hat. He had that knack at MN as well. He'd tease you with a win from out of nowhere after the team had tanked it vs lesser squads. So far, we can't say that Richard has pulled off a significant upset. +1 to Tubby in that category.

Tubby had his opportunity. He led the Gophers to a series of mid to lower B1G season records. Meh.
 

Change had to be made. There was no upside with Tubby . i would describe what he got done as average at best. With PITINO you got a chance for an upside move as a program. Certainly not a sure thing but way too early to know at this point. Pretty tough job in a lot of ways. i think it will be a success if he is by year 3 always in the top 6 in conference with a sweet 16 appearance every 4th year. That would be pretty heady stuff around here. a serious breakthrough would be a conference championship once in awhile, maybe every 7-8 years. Great coaches can do that here. This conference is loaded with great coaches. Ryan, Izzo, Belien, Matta but the door can be opened. If Bennett can go 35-3 over the last two years against 4 hall of fame coaches in the ACC . to put that in perspective that is a full 5 games better then Duke over that period ! Have you hired that kind of coaching superstar ? Time will tell. UVA had the advantage of a much larger body of basketball experiences. Seems as though Pitino deserves some time.
 

I absolutely loved the Tubby hire. Worse case scenario got us a lot of exposure. Tubby had stuff happen outside of his control and so will Pitino. Next year Buggs will be the only player left that Tubby recruited and it will be fully on Pitino. Every coach makes mistakes(Martin) so lets see what he does now. Bottom line next year we will be more athletic, longer and quicker. The current team Mason is the best defender in the pressure defense in the open court. The point of it is to make the offensive person work. When Hollins(love everything he has done for the U) and Mathieu are there they end up chasing their guy which doesn't make them work. We will be young and inexperienced but I think we will be fun to watch. Whether we like it or not this year is a transition year between the two types of styles and not indicative of what next year will provide.
PS I was at a fundraiser that Tubby came to for our high school basketball coach(who since died) and he was very personable and generous. Thought it really showed his class when they played at 11 the next day that he would take his(and Donna's) time to attend. Won't say anything bad about the man but I'm glad with the change and were the future is headed.
 



IMO, Pitino's biggest problem this year is that they essentially over achieved last year, now he is under achieving.

I can't recall the predictions, but last years team lost Trevor Mbakwe and Rodney Williams. The two best/most athletic bigs. In their place we had 360 pound Mo Walker, EE, and freshman Alex Foster.

So MN lost (arguably) the two best players from a 9-9 b1g team that won a tournament game.

I can't imagine many expected that the next years team would go 8-10 in the b1g and win the NIT.

My point is, if Pitino isn't as successful as he was last year, people may not be quite as upset this year.

As bad as Tubby left the roster for Pitino....Pitino has left it in much worse shape for himself. Let's see what next years class brings, but we have to have the worst returning core in the B1G next year. I'm willing to give him a pass on it....not a free pass....but a pass in hopes next years class is good and the one after that is better. I don't get where people have this perception of Pitino being a great recruiter.....he really hasn't shown it yet. We will know in two years if Pitino will be successful at the U. Personally I think he has a shot.
 

Every time a player repeats the same correctable mistake I feel myself losing the tiniest bit of faith.


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As bad as Tubby left the roster for Pitino....Pitino has left it in much worse shape for himself. Let's see what next years class brings, but we have to have the worst returning core in the B1G next year. I'm willing to give him a pass on it....not a free pass....but a pass in hopes next years class is good and the one after that is better. I don't get where people have this perception of Pitino being a great recruiter.....he really hasn't shown it yet. We will know in two years if Pitino will be successful at the U. Personally I think he has a shot.

I think it is probably at best a wash. Hollins would probably still be running the point. We'd have Alex Foster and Alvin Ellis on the roster. I saw a tweet today that those guys have combined to score 2 points this entire month. They're both sophomores.
 

There's a lot to criticize this year, though it's still too early to be judging conclusions. (Recall that Coach K took over a team coming off an Elite Eight appearance and led it to a 10-17 record in his second season).

The one thing that worries me long term is the dearth of forwards on the roster. I'm really hoping big men don't become for Pitino what point guards were for Tubby - a recruiting weakness that he just isn't able to get around. That Illikainen thing was the first time I ever really questioned his judgment. I shrugged it off at the time, but even if he doesn't become a superstar, that's a body up front that we're not getting.
 

I didn't hate Tubby. He seems to be a genuinely good guy. He simply was ineffective offensively. I always applauded his ability to coach and teach defense. He failed here because he couldn't produce an offense that provided movement and open looks for his players.

If you watch Pitino's offense, even though we haven't won many B1G games this season, the kids get open looks and the offensive flow is much, much better than what Tubby produced. Our flaws this season can be traced to two major things. One, we are a poor rebounding team. Two, we have not cherished our possessions. The latter point can be attributed first to Mathieu falling significantly below last years contributions. We are weak at both forward positions and it has cost us more than a handful of games.

If we wish to compare Tubby in his second year at TTU and Richard in his second year at MN, we can. Which program has had the more cringe-worthy games? I'll give Tubby some props. He pulled that win over ISU out of his hat. He had that knack at MN as well. He'd tease you with a win from out of nowhere after the team had tanked it vs lesser squads. So far, we can't say that Richard has pulled off a significant upset. +1 to Tubby in that category.

Tubby had his opportunity. He led the Gophers to a series of mid to lower B1G season records. Meh.

Richard just got his significant upset!

How do you like the flow of that offense. Something you didn't see with Tubby's teams. (He just had a different philosophy.) Love the motion Pitino gets in his sets.
 

Whoa! This Pitino guy is some kind of genius, wouldn't y'all agree?
 

Whoa! This Pitino guy is some kind of genius, wouldn't y'all agree?

Setting aside sarcasm, Pitino's two games in East Lansing have been better than anything I've seen from any Minnesota team in East Lansing since 1997.
 




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