***OFFICIAL MINNESOTA AT MICHIGAN STATE IN-GAME THREAD!!!***

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stocker08 said:
The guys were winded at the end. We just didn't have enough guard depth with Hawk being out and Christie picking up 5 fouls in 16 minutes of court time. Mitchell was forced into playing the entire game when he's been playing more like 20-25 minutes recently.

lol.....our guards (Christie, Mitchell, and Carrington) had 11 fouls called on them in 82 minutes of court time. Theirs (Akins, Hoggard, Walker, and Holloman) had 3 fouls called on them in 116 minutes.
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Their guys were consistently beating our guards off the dribble.

Our guards are content to throw up threes.
 

They played better. Harder Id day. That said that wasn’t a very good Michigan state team. Iowa looked better to me if we are being honest
 

007gopherfan said:
CMON CBJ stand up for your team...get a technical foul...that was not a foul on Payne...
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007gopherfan said:
CMON CBJ stand up for your team...get a technical foul...that was not a foul on Payne...
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This so right on. Coach Johnson lets these putride refs run over your team. Last four Goper basketball games have been the worsed ref games in the history of college basketball. Coach Johnson doesn't say/do anything. Mean while Izzo has lost his voice and had three strokes, because they haven't fouled out Payne as quickly as they could out Cam.
 

dlnavra said:
Do you want to send an email to someone complaining after the fact or call them out as the foul count is getting completely out of line. Which one? Gophers current approach is acceptance. Our ranting about what is fair means nothing. Influence needs to happen during the game.
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It depends. Is it sternly worded? ;)
 

Way too many turnovers to win on the road. They played hard after the bad start but you can’t be so careless and expect to win.

And that’s especially true when you’re facing the refs too. How is goaltending against the backboard not reviewable? Christie got screwed. That offensive foul by Garcia at about 3:30 left was laughable. There was one with just under 1:00 left that was truly a phantom call. Even with all the gifts, Izzo still got the T.
 


007gopherfan said:
Turnovers MSU = 5, Gophers = 19
Pts off Turnovers MUS = 21, Gophers = 6
Fast Break Points MSU = 17, Gophers = Somehow got credit for 2
Points in the paint MSU = 44, Gophers = 12 (Should use Jack more!)

Not going to win too many games with these stats differentials.
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This is true. I would say that at least 5 or more "turnovers" can be shown in the bruise marks on our guys arms from Spartans hacking them rather than the ball. Again, it was an amazing effort by the stripes in how they called this game.
We just have to get so good that the piss ant refs don't matter.
 

dlnavra said:
Ok. Happy to keep going. Did you see Izzo working refs going into half time despite already being in a positive position? And really continually during the game no matter the current score?

What (after the fact) would you like to happen that will impact the outcome? And have you ever seen an impact from complaining after the game is lost?
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Again......you keep saying not to blame the refs for being bullied into making bad calls. Or they could not be influenced by whining and complaining?

007gopherfan said:
How many times did our guards drive and attack the rim? How many times did theirs?
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Didn't count. The difference is they got calls when they drove and the Gophers didn't. There was at least as much contact on the other side of the court right before Christie picked up his fifth with more than eight minutes still remaining in the game. You can choose to ignore it.....but Christie picked up some really ticky tacky calls considering that the Gophers weren't getting the same. With only three guards really available to give good minutes......that was killer having Christie (who was playing well may I add) only available for 16 minutes.
 


stocker08 said:
The team was battling despite having a short bench due to injury and foul issues. The last thing the guys need in that position is Johnson getting a technical. At that point in the game.....a lot of the damage was done. Getting a tech would do nothing for the team.

Again....it all comes back to "don't blame the refs". It's nonsense. You can absolutely blame the refs for calling an unbalanced game. The phantom goaltending is all you need to know about how lopsided the game was called. lol......don't blame the refs.
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Maybe there was a time when much less was at stake and certainly a lot less money was involved, but times, oh man, the times have changed.

Officiating, as a profession, has not evolved. They remain the same aloof secret society that they have always been, never having to answer for their performance and having droves of people still flocking to their defense at the mere thought of accountability. In my opinion, part of the reason they get the abuse they do is because they never do anything to address concerns or answer legitimate questions about calls they made (or didn't make). If a coach brings it up, they risk fines and further bias in future games. As a result of their god-like behavior, people are left to fill in the gaps, and it is usually not going to be in favor of the officials. Some transparency and explanation would go a long way towards rebuilding trust and integrity in their profession. It would also help educate the fan base on why things are called a certain way. The more people understand the rules, the less likely they are to fill in the missing pieces with conspiratorial crap. They could also really use to accept the fact that they are going to f up at times. Owning it wouldn't diminish them (unless it continues to happen), and at least I can respect a guy that is man enough to admit they screwed up.

Basketball seems to have more than its fair share of officials who have as large or larger egos than the players they are officiating. Some of them, like it or not, enjoy the attention. They get off on the power, and they screw it up for everyone else. Weed these a$$holes out. Don't do the turtle hoping it magically goes away. It won't, and it will blow up in your face at the worst possible time.

I'm a data driven guy. If I'm looking at an officiating crew for a game and see that one team is 0 - 68 when on the road with a particular guy running the show, my anomaly detector explodes. At a bare minimum I'm asking a bunch of why questions. Ideally I'm reviewing game footage to look for potential bias, because that kind of data screams something different is happening. Skewness of that degree is not purely coincidence. If it is, that team (Gophers) are some of the most unlucky sob's on the planet. ;)
 




stocker08 said:
Again......you keep saying not to blame the refs for being bullied into making bad calls. Or they could not be influenced by whining and complaining?



Didn't count. The difference is they got calls when they drove and the Gophers didn't. There was at least as much contact on the other side of the court right before Christie picked up his fifth with more than eight minutes still remaining in the game. You can choose to ignore it.....but Christie picked up some really ticky tacky calls considering that the Gophers weren't getting the same. With only three guards really available to give good minutes......that was killer having Christie (who was playing well may I add) only available for 16 minutes.
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That call for Christie's 5th was a phantom foul. Cam is a couple inches from the guy and gets called. I was actually quite impressed with Christie keeping his composure. I would have lit that ref up one side and down the other. How do I know? I got fouled out on a phantom call in a game in college and I lost it. The thing with that one is the ref knew he blew the call so he let me vent. Had Christie done what you know he wanted to do, those stripes would have t'd him up in a heartbeat. Cam's an impressive kid. Izzo, not so much
 


Decent effort, but ultimately a double digit loss to a below average B1G team. The refs were brutal but they often are on the road in the B1G. Ben absolutely should have gotten T'd up.

And you can't win turning the ball over 17 times and not making a shot in the last 5 minutes. This team just doesn't do fundamental things well enough. Take care of the ball. Have a plan on offense. Make FT's. We do none of them.
 
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FinnGopher said:
That call for Christie's 5th was a phantom foul. Cam is a couple inches from the guy and gets called. I was actually quite impressed with Christie keeping his composure. I would have lit that ref up one side and down the other. How do I know? I got fouled out on a phantom call in a game in college and I lost it. The thing with that one is the ref knew he blew the call so he let me vent. Had Christie done what you know he wanted to do, those stripes would have t'd him up in a heartbeat. Cam's an impressive kid. Izzo, not so much
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Seeing as how Cam's brother went to MSU and Cam turned down the Spartan offer to play for the Gophers......there may have been extra motivation to get him out of the game. Refs didn't like his choice.
 

DarthGopher said:
Maybe there was a time when much less was at stake and certainly a lot less money was involved, but times, oh man, the times have changed.

Officiating, as a profession, has not evolved. They remain the same aloof secret society that they have always been, never having to answer for their performance and having droves of people still flocking to their defense at the mere thought of accountability. In my opinion, part of the reason they get the abuse they do is because they never do anything to address concerns or answer legitimate questions about calls they made (or didn't make). If a coach brings it up, they risk fines and further bias in future games. As a result of their god-like behavior, people are left to fill in the gaps, and it is usually not going to be in favor of the officials. Some transparency and explanation would go a long way towards rebuilding trust and integrity in their profession. It would also help educate the fan base on why things are called a certain way. The more people understand the rules, the less likely they are to fill in the missing pieces with conspiratorial crap. They could also really use to accept the fact that they are going to f up at times. Owning it wouldn't diminish them (unless it continues to happen), and at least I can respect a guy that is man enough to admit they screwed up.

Basketball seems to have more than its fair share of officials who have as large or larger egos than the players they are officiating. Some of them, like it or not, enjoy the attention. They get off on the power, and they screw it up for everyone else. Weed these a$$holes out. Don't do the turtle hoping it magically goes away. It won't, and it will blow up in your face at the worst possible time.

I'm a data driven guy. If I'm looking at an officiating crew for a game and see that one team is 0 - 68 when on the road with a particular guy running the show, my anomaly detector explodes. At a bare minimum I'm asking a bunch of why questions. Ideally I'm reviewing game footage to look for potential bias, because that kind of data screams something different is happening. Skewness of that degree is not purely coincidence. If it is, that team (Gophers) are some of the most unlucky sob's on the planet. ;)
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0-68 is bad. But we're probably 5-95 on the road with all other refs in the same period.
 

DarthGopher said:
It depends. Is it sternly worded? ;)
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Touche’
howeda7 said:
Decent effort, but ultimately a double digit loss to a below average B1G team. The refs were brutal but they often are on the road in the B1G. Ben absolutely should have gotten T'd up. And you can't win turning the ball over 17 times and not making a shot in the last 5 minutes. This team just doesn't do fundamental things well enough. Take care of the ball. Have a plan on offense. Make FT's. We do none of them.
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it’s a physically (potentially) imposing roster that the Gophers have..
 


Did the two coaches speak in postgame press conferences. Would like to listen
 


Jack’s a legend. He also gave up a 5 point play that changed the game. I get it. He is so easy to root for. But his fouls were senseless. And costly. He is not worthy of consistent high major minutes. But damn it was fun, I guess.
 

meech said:
Jack Wilson needs to play over Ihnen and Fox. He is a mountain of a man and we need some strength down low.

No disrespect to Fox, but they have him playing the 5 on defense and he’s not big enough.
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Wilson has 5 fouls to give. Might as well make them pay for coming into the lane. Cryin shame he was out after only 2 fouls and not given a chance to really lay the wood on someone.
 


bomba$$_golf said:
Jack’s a legend. He also gave up a 5 point play that changed the game. I get it. He is so easy to root for. But his fouls were senseless. And costly. He is not worthy of consistent high major minutes. But damn it was fun, I guess.
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I'm sure he's a great guy. But he's not worthy of a scholarship on a B1G team period.
 


meech said:
Jack Wilson needs to play over Ihnen and Fox. He is a mountain of a man and we need some strength down low.

No disrespect to Fox, but they have him playing the 5 on defense and he’s not big enough.
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Ihnen plays awfully light.
 



meech said:
Jack Wilson needs to play over Ihnen and Fox. He is a mountain of a man and we need some strength down low.

No disrespect to Fox, but they have him playing the 5 on defense and he’s not big enough.
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Ridiculous. Wilson is an absolute clown show good for blowouts or extreme foul trouble only. He’s entertaining, but should not crack the rotation under most circumstances.
 

bga1 said:
Izzo dogs the officials all game and gets the calls. Ben says nothing and gets nothing.
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Izzy also has built a reputation over many years that allows him to do that. Johnson hasn’t.
On the T Izzo got, the officials let him go on and on for over a minute, the low official even turned and talked to him for a bit. then finally they had enough and the outside official gave him the warranted T. If Johnson does that same exact thing, he would have been T’d up by the low official and not been able to go on a minute long rant.
 


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