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Gopherbbdude said:
They have moments.....just not enough of them
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They have little stretches where they fight, they close the lead by 3-4 points, then they have a minute or two where the other team scores 8 in a row. They make losing plays in bunches. The end of the first half was classic. The Gophers are down three. Carrington at the line for 1 and 1. Misses. Illinois goes down- nails a three to go up six and Cooper misses a two footer. Could have gone into the half down 1 point or perhaps 3 and they are down 6. Then Illinois runs 8 straight to start the second and the game is essentially over.
 




big10guy said:
Besides working on their shooting strokes, I really hope both Battle and Garcia learn how to get off shots going to their right. Neither can do it now. Otherwise, defenses will continue to force them to their off hand and limit their offensive options. Dennis Evans is another lefty coming in, although I pray they stick him close to the basket and play as a post.
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Evans dunks from the free throw line.
 


Battle cut the lead to 8 with about 14 minutes left in the 2nd half. It never got closer. Just not enough offense on this team to counteract mediocre defense.
 

Payne goes from 18 points to zero. He goes from 12 shots to zero. He hardly spent any time at all standing at the top of the circle in that game. Instead, we got him the ball down low in the 18 point game.
Not tonite, back on top. Then he sprints so hard to the rim from out there he's out of breath. Do that a couple times with no touches and he gets distracted into foul trouble.
If the Big Ten has an expansion draft when St Thomas joins...I'm putting Ola Joseph on my protected list.
 


60's Guy said:
Payne goes from 18 points to zero. He goes from 12 shots to zero. He hardly spent any time at all standing at the top of the circle in that game. Instead, we got him the ball down low in the 18 point game.
Not tonite, back on top. Then he sprints so hard to the rim from out there he's out of breath. Do that a couple times with no touches and he gets distracted into foul trouble.
If the Big Ten has an expansion draft when St Thomas joins...I'm putting Ola Joseph on my protected list.
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Payne overpowered in his last game. Not against most these guys.

Payne is concerning to me as his body is basically fully developed and he has no shot. Dunk or a layup is not the recipe.

I will be interested to see how he does in the years to come.
 



www.startribune.com

Illinois sends Gophers to 10th straight loss, despite 31 from Battle

Minnesota is now 1-14 in Big Ten play after the Fighting Illini used a balanced offensive attack — all five starters scored double figures — to hold off the Gophers.
www.startribune.com www.startribune.com

"...The lack of consistent guard play has been a big blow to the Gophers staying competitive in the Big Ten. Starting guard Ta'Lon Cooper and Jaden Henley, both scoreless in the first half, combined for nine points in the game...."


We will see what happens at guard into next season. Carrington won Minnesota Mister Basketball. I think Carrington is going to be good. Henley is intriguing because of his quick movement and potential perimeter shooting but not Big Ten ready right now. He's all over the place. It doesn't look good but we will see.
 

60's Guy said:
Payne goes from 18 points to zero. He goes from 12 shots to zero. He hardly spent any time at all standing at the top of the circle in that game. Instead, we got him the ball down low in the 18 point game.
Not tonite, back on top. Then he sprints so hard to the rim from out there he's out of breath. Do that a couple times with no touches and he gets distracted into foul trouble.
If the Big Ten has an expansion draft when St Thomas joins...I'm putting Ola Joseph on my protected list.
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Of the freshman JOJ stands out. He shows improvement every game. The more he plays the better he gets. Can’t say that for the other freshman.
 
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Bfan said:
www.startribune.com

Illinois sends Gophers to 10th straight loss, despite 31 from Battle

Minnesota is now 1-14 in Big Ten play after the Fighting Illini used a balanced offensive attack — all five starters scored double figures — to hold off the Gophers.
www.startribune.com www.startribune.com

"...The lack of consistent guard play has been a big blow to the Gophers staying competitive in the Big Ten. Starting guard Ta'Lon Cooper and Jaden Henley, both scoreless in the first half, combined for nine points in the game...."


We will see what happens at guard into next season. Carrington won Minnesota Mister Basketball. I think Carrington is going to be good. Henley is intriguing because of his quick movement and potential perimeter shooting but not Big Ten ready right now. He's all over the place. It doesn't look good but we will see.
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Henley is shooting 33% from 2 and 27% from 3. What makes you think he's a "potential perimeter shooter" outside of blind hope?

Carrington won Mr Basketball...so what? That has absolutely 0 bearing on if they will be good at college basketball.

I like how there is nothing you say that has any factual backing. 🤷‍♂️
 




Bfan said:
www.startribune.com

Illinois sends Gophers to 10th straight loss, despite 31 from Battle

Minnesota is now 1-14 in Big Ten play after the Fighting Illini used a balanced offensive attack — all five starters scored double figures — to hold off the Gophers.
www.startribune.com www.startribune.com

"...The lack of consistent guard play has been a big blow to the Gophers staying competitive in the Big Ten. Starting guard Ta'Lon Cooper and Jaden Henley, both scoreless in the first half, combined for nine points in the game...."


We will see what happens at guard into next season. Carrington won Minnesota Mister Basketball. I think Carrington is going to be good. Henley is intriguing because of his quick movement and potential perimeter shooting but not Big Ten ready right now. He's all over the place. It doesn't look good but we will see.
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leib0039 said:
Henley is shooting 33% from 2 and 27% from 3. What makes you think he's a "potential perimeter shooter" outside of blind hope?

Carrington won Mr Basketball...so what? That has absolutely 0 bearing on if they will be good at college basketball.

I like how there is nothing you say that has any factual backing. 🤷‍♂️
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It appears your brain processed something different than what I wrote. Go back and re-read what I wrote.

Henley was rated the #2 2022 wing by PrepHoops for his state. He's still a potential at this point as a freshman. Right now it doesn't look good but intriguing. Regarding Carrington, that's my opinion. I could care less what you think. He's been injured so there's not enough data to even formulate an early conclusion.
 

I have multiple times repeated the same view on the guards/wings. My view is not original. Umpteen others have said that.

Success for CBJ's build plan may come down to the guards/wings. Will they pan out or not. I have repeated that it looks "iffy."

Gophers will have Evans, Payne, JOJ, Battle and we assume Garcia. That looks great. It doesn't work if the guards/wings do not emerge. I'm not original in saying that.

I am consistent from the start in saying I think Carrington will be good. I have no data to back that up other than the 20 point game.

I am consistent in saying Henley has looked lost at times and iffy but he's quick and potential shooting from the wing so I actually like watching him to see if he's emerging. Right now, no. I have never advanced my opinion on Henley beyond "iffy" or "intriguing."

Regarding Christie, I say that between the three of them the Gophers need someone to pay off or CBJ is in trouble. One of the bets at SG/wing needs to emerge. I am not original in thinking that.

Evans could be a God but without guards...
 

leib0039 said:
Henley is shooting 33% from 2 and 27% from 3. What makes you think he's a "potential perimeter shooter" outside of blind hope?

Carrington won Mr Basketball...so what? That has absolutely 0 bearing on if they will be good at college basketball.

I like how there is nothing you say that has any factual backing. 🤷‍♂️
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It wouldn’t surprise me that a plurality of college players imake their biggest jumps from Freshman to Sophomore seasons.

They’ve has a year to adjust to college and the flaws in their games have been exposed, so it’s clear to them what b they need to improve on for next season.
 


Bfan said:
It appears your brain processed something different than what I wrote. Go back and re-read what I wrote.

Henley was rated the #2 2022 wing by PrepHoops for his state. He's still a potential at this point as a freshman. Right now it doesn't look good but intriguing. Regarding Carrington, that's my opinion. I could care less what you think. He's been injured so there's not enough data to even formulate an early conclusion.
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Freshman numbers
Kevin Lynch 3.7ppg
Townsend Orr 4.9 ppg
Quincy Lewis 6.7 ppg
Mo Hargrow 3.6 ppg
Lawrence Westbrook 3.5 ppg
Damian Johnson 1.6 ppg
Austin Hollins 4.5 ppg (26% 3pt percentage)
Devoe Joseph 5 ppg
Justin Cobb 2.1 ppg
Willie Burton 8.7 ppg
Al Nolen 4.3 ppg

All of these guys turned out to be really good college players. All had a learning period as a freshman. To add to the issues for our current guys, our roster is unbalanced, a mess. So it is hard to put our young guys in the right positions and in some cases there is just no one on the roster to show them how its done.
 

fan of Ray Williams said:
Ola-Joseph might want to snag a few rebounds now and then. Kind of baffles me. Not going to mention the assists.
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Hey! He has 8 assists on the year now. I think he actually had two in one game. He's got that passing thing down!

I feel the same way about the rebounding. He shows athleticism, determination, explosiveness, and moves when it comes to scoring opportunities but not quite the same energy and determination when it comes to other things. Part of that may be due to positioning. The fact that he can score with a pretty good level of efficiency on a consistent basis makes him indispensable on this team but it would be nice if he could increase the productivity in some other areas (including defense).
 

jblass said:
Of the freshman JOJ stands out. He shows improvement every game. The more he plays the better he gets. Can’t say the for the other freshman.
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JOJ is developing a nice offensive game, the problem is he doesn't have a defensive position and that will limit him long term.

He's basically a PF in a SG's body, except he's not fast enough to defend against guards and SF's. That's why he was guarding Njie in the Penn St game, who was basically their center, and he sat on the bench when they went small for the majority of the game. 19 minutes was the fewest he's played over the last 9 games, despite having 11 points in that game.

Long term JOJ is probably instant offense off the bench on a good team.
 

leib0039 said:
Henley is shooting 33% from 2 and 27% from 3. What makes you think he's a "potential perimeter shooter" outside of blind hope?

Carrington won Mr Basketball...so what? That has absolutely 0 bearing on if they will be good at college basketball.

I like how there is nothing you say that has any factual backing. 🤷‍♂️
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He takes a lot of bad shots and that's a big problem for him and really the team as a whole. Part of it is because he's just out of control sometimes. The other reason is we don't do much of anything on offense so a lot of times he's got the ball with less than 10 seconds on the shot clock and needs to force something up.

I don't know if he'll ever be a great shooter, but he's looked ok at times.
 

bga1 said:
They have little stretches where they fight, they close the lead by 3-4 points, then they have a minute or two where the other team scores 8 in a row. They make losing plays in bunches. The end of the first half was classic. The Gophers are down three. Carrington at the line for 1 and 1. Misses. Illinois goes down- nails a three to go up six and Cooper misses a two footer. Could have gone into the half down 1 point or perhaps 3 and they are down 6. Then Illinois runs 8 straight to start the second and the game is essentially over.
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Spot-on assessment. I like our (bad) team. They play hard; they willingly defend; they have good body language despite the losing, etc., but they struggle in the skill and quickness departments for sure, and they are the worst collection of shooters we've ever seen in MN. Unfortunately they dont get out and run much, which can be tonic for poor-shooting teams. Good to see Battle play like he did last year. No one foresaw the three steps back he took this season. Cost us 2-3 wins IMO.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
JOJ is developing a nice offensive game, the problem is he doesn't have a defensive position and that will limit him long term.

He's basically a PF in a SG's body, except he's not fast enough to defend against guards and SF's. That's why he was guarding Njie in the Penn St game, who was basically their center, and he sat on the bench when they went small for the majority of the game. 19 minutes was the fewest he's played over the last 9 games, despite having 11 points in that game.

Long term JOJ is probably instant offense off the bench on a good team.
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JOJ has plenty of athleticism and growth potential of defense. He will be a stud beginning next year if CBJ prioritizes him getting the ball.
 

Block M said:
JOJ has plenty of athleticism and growth potential of defense. He will be a stud beginning next year if CBJ prioritizes him getting the ball.
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I liked the quote about JOJ the announcers had.
They were quoting Coach Johnson about JOJ.
"He has unrealistic confidence and is wickedly funny." (or something similar to that point)

You watch JOJ and he just doesn't care about who he's up against. He is going to attack with abandon. I love that kind of relentless belief. I hope it rubs off on others.
 

Block M said:
JOJ has plenty of athleticism and growth potential of defense. He will be a stud beginning next year if CBJ prioritizes him getting the ball.
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Yes he could, at PF. But we already have 6 of those.
 


GophersInIowa said:
He takes a lot of bad shots and that's a big problem for him and really the team as a whole. Part of it is because he's just out of control sometimes. The other reason is we don't do much of anything on offense so a lot of times he's got the ball with less than 10 seconds on the shot clock and needs to force something up.

I don't know if he'll ever be a great shooter, but he's looked ok at times.
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He really doesn't take a lot of shots on a per minute basis. For the 15 conference games, his 8.8 shots per 40 minutes ranks 6th on the team (only one more per 40 minutes than Carrington and 1.7 fewer per 40 than Thompson). Granted, his shooting is bad but that's not unusual for a freshman.

I agree with your reasoning that he is often forced to take shots. By halftime of last night's game, no guard on the team had scored. They have to try and Henley, by virtue of not being one of the more heavily guarded players on the team, should take a certain amount of attempts per game. That's especially necessary since Cooper's offense seems to have collapsed in recent weeks (26.9% field goal percentage over his last 7 games). He's driving inside the perimeter much better than he did earlier in the year and I'm glad he's continuing to try those short and midrange jumpers. I know those shots aren't favored by analytics but you have to take what the defense gives you and some very notable players (e.g., Elton Brand, Richard Hamilton) had very good careers with those as their primary shots.
 

I'm sure someone's noted this, but Illinois was without their top scorer.

As far as the technical fouls go, I don't know what was said, so I don't know how appropriate the penalties were, but I had this thought in the midst of it: Minnesota competes in the Big Ten at the pleasure of the conference. Hitting them with those Ts sends a message. It essentially slaps down the uppity runt who thinks they're the same rank as the other programs.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
JOJ is developing a nice offensive game, the problem is he doesn't have a defensive position and that will limit him long term.

He's basically a PF in a SG's body, except he's not fast enough to defend against guards and SF's. That's why he was guarding Njie in the Penn St game, who was basically their center, and he sat on the bench when they went small for the majority of the game. 19 minutes was the fewest he's played over the last 9 games, despite having 11 points in that game.

Long term JOJ is probably instant offense off the bench on a good team.
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JOJ has several "gears" it seems. When he gets the ball in his hands and wants to make a move to the basket- he's fast. On defense he's slow. He has it in him but the difference on defense is he is thinking whereas on offense he's just going for it. They say he's 6-7- he looks 6-5 to me. When he becomes a good defender, I think he is a good 3. His shot is getting better as the season goes on.
A comparable player from the past is Jayson Walton. We haven't had too many kids like JOJ- I like him!

Edit: One more note about JOJ- in 22 minutes he's scoring at a 7.8ppg clip (closer to 10 ppg lately). That's comparable to Battle's production (35 minutes per game) per minute played...on far more efficient percentages. His rebounding is right with Battle's as well. I get that Battle gets a lot of attention defensively but JOJ has a ton of potential.
 
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MennoSota said:
I liked the quote about JOJ the announcers had.
They were quoting Coach Johnson about JOJ.
"He has unrealistic confidence and is wickedly funny." (or something similar to that point)
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Irrational confidence guys are the best!
MennoSota said:
You watch JOJ and he just doesn't care about who he's up against. He is going to attack with abandon. I love that kind of relentless belief. I hope it rubs off on others.
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Good point that energy is contagious and he’ll never let anyone quit
 

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