Next Gopher Head Coach

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MplsGopher said:
Smith was the better choice at the time, and would still be worth asking how much he really loves the state of Utah and the idea of playing in the new Big 12 as opposed to the current PAC 12.

He may tell Coyle to pound sand. In which case we move on.
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Craig Smith was who I wanted the first time around.

I think he and Medved would both be gettable this offseason.

Unfortunately I have a sinking feeling that Ben will get a 4th year, even if he ends up with 4 or 5 B10 wins.
 

Slim Tubby said:
As success and hope for a program diminishes, so does our patience and attention. I've unknowingly distanced myself from this program over the last 10 years without making a conscious decision to do so.

We are where we're at today due to the apathy and poor leadership shown by the U Admin. Ben's not the cause of our problems...he's the result.
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Need to hire a flamethrower.
 


eker0016 said:
Craig Smith was who I wanted the first time around.

I think he and Medved would both be gettable this offseason.

Unfortunately I have a sinking feeling that Ben will get a 4th year, even if he ends up with 4 or 5 B10 wins.
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Medved is. Smith was last time, but I believe that ship has sailed.

The president who hired Ben is gone, and barring a miracle finish this season Ben will be gone too.
 

eker0016 said:
Craig Smith was who I wanted the first time around.

I think he and Medved would both be gettable this offseason.

Unfortunately I have a sinking feeling that Ben will get a 4th year, even if he ends up with 4 or 5 B10 wins.
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GopherWeatherGuy said:
Medved is. Smith was last time, but I believe that ship has sailed.

The president who hired Ben is gone, and barring a miracle finish this season Ben will be gone too.
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It's hard to know for sure, but there's one way to find out.

I think it's safe to say that their get-ability declines as time goes by and they either become more entrenched in their current situations or get snagged by a top-tier program. Smith is going on six years living and working in the state of Utah. I've never visited Fort Collins, but I've been to Salt Lake City a few times and, quirks aside, it's one of the places I've decided I could live. I would not blame Smith one bit if he turned down the U in favor of staying at UU.
 


Bad Gopher said:
It's hard to know for sure, but there's one way to find out.

I think it's safe to say that their get-ability declines as time goes by and they either become more entrenched in their current situations or get snagged by a top-tier program. Smith is going on six years living and working in the state of Utah. I've never visited Fort Collins, but I've been to Salt Lake City a few times and, quirks aside, it's one of the places I've decided I could live. I would not blame Smith one bit if he turned down the U in favor of staying at UU.
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I would be surprised if Smith isn't available. He's making $1.85MM at Utah. Ben is making more than him, and he had no resume to speak of. Smith is an actual living, breathing, competent D1 head coach. I would be surprised if they couldn't offer a contract to Smith that would raise his salary by close to 50%. If he was a bit older, and had more time to bank some of his P5 coaching salary I think you may have a point. He was making $800k at the end at Utah State, and now has had 3 years with his Utah contract. Once you factor in taxes at that bracket, as much as some probably think, he's likely not sitting on some big pile of money. Offering a position where you increase your salary by that much (with a chance of bigger raises with success in the future compared to Utah), many people would have a hard time saying 'no'. Taken from an article about him, yeah, he doesn't want to be in MN...

Captur44e.JPG

https://www.deseret.com/2022/6/16/2...arcy-wife-children-four-pac-12-basketball-usu
 

Just got this email...guess if I sign up for this, the basketball team would save me some money, so there's that. Close loses and moral victories wouldn't cost me a dime!

Capturaae.JPG
 

stocker08 said:
I think that there's reason for optimism. If you all want to be pessimists....so be it. All you are doing is setting yourselves up for disappointment when Johnson returns next year.....which is incredibly likely based on the step forward this year. But until then....you instant gratification folks can keep at it. :ROFLMAO:

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Do you actually know what "instant gratification" means because based on your posts you seem to fundamentally not understand. 3 years is hardly "instant" and I am not sure expecting a Big Ten Team to be better than this is really all that gratifying.

Did you go to the MPLSGopher School of "The more I post an incorrect phrase the more likely it will be people think I know what I am talking about!"?

If you want to keep Ben fine, but stop pretending we are calling for his head in the middle of his first Big Ten season. That would be "Instant Gratification". This is year 3 and we barely look like a Big Ten team. We may be better, but in the same vein that a student getting 50% on a test after getting 30% on the previous tests is improving...but still failed.
 

Like how long are we going with this Ben experiment? Does the U enjoy just being in the bottom of the conference?
 



DietCokeFan said:
Like how long are we going with this Ben experiment? Does the U enjoy just being in the bottom of the conference?
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“Hold your horses you child, BJ has only been the coach for an instant.” - stocker
 

Dave H said:
Do you actually know what "instant gratification" means because based on your posts you seem to fundamentally not understand. 3 years is hardly "instant" and I am not sure expecting a Big Ten Team to be better than this is really all that gratifying.

Did you go to the MPLSGopher School of "The more I post an incorrect phrase the more likely it will be people think I know what I am talking about!"?

If you want to keep Ben fine, but stop pretending we are calling for his head in the middle of his first Big Ten season. That would be "Instant Gratification". This is year 3 and we barely look like a Big Ten team. We may be better, but in the same vein that a student getting 50% on a test after getting 30% on the previous tests is improving...but still failed.
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In terms of building a program from the ground up at a place that's had only a handful of NCAA Tournament wins over the past 25 years......yes. Some of you have unrealistic expectations and zero foresight. Impatience and knee jerk reactions are definite characteristics of the instant gratification....cut off your nose despite your face because you don't know any better crowd.

If you want Johnson to be fired....that's also fine. I'm just letting you know that your elevated blood pressure isn't going to let up soon. You're getting yourself worked up over something that's highly unlikely to occur this year. But by all means.....continue to bitch and moan and whine if it makes you feel better.
 

On the fan they had the gopher bball announcer on the air. Great guy and he did a great job of not taking PA’s badger bait. I also liked that he stated the entire globe was focused on MPLS at the time of the hiring plus other considerations that went into the gopher mens bball hire. Glad to have him making the rounds for gopher hoops.
 

stocker08 said:
In terms of building a program from the ground up at a place that's had only a handful of NCAA Tournament wins over the past 25 years......yes. Some of you have unrealistic expectations and zero foresight. Impatience and knee jerk reactions are definite characteristics of the instant gratification....cut off your nose despite your face because you don't know any better crowd.

If you want Johnson to be fired....that's also fine. I'm just letting you know that your elevated blood pressure isn't going to let up soon. You're getting yourself worked up over something that's highly unlikely to occur this year. But by all means.....continue to bitch and moan and whine if it makes you feel better.
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My blood pressure is hardly elevated...and I have said the season outcome will dictate whether or not he should be fired. If they make a serious play for the NIT I will back the idea of giving him one more year because even with a ridiculously awful schedule that is still a measurable amount of progress. (not a feeling) If they don't though then sorry but he has to go.

Plenty of teams rebuild and do it fast. With the transfer portal it really isn't all that hard and no one here is screaming NCAA OR BUST!1!!!or anything but asking for a team in a pretty weak conference to be able to approach .500 in said conference is not some sort of crazy ask. And we can still get there and for the love of Goldy I sure hope we do. But there will be excuses every year not to fire him just like there was with Pitino. "X player was hurt" or "The refs screwed us in the games that mattered" or "he can't control the player turnover in CBB" or whatever. To me, if there is a better coach that wants the job Ben Johnson hasn't done enough in my eyes to prevent that from happening.
 



Dave H said:
My blood pressure is hardly elevated...and I have said the season outcome will dictate whether or not he should be fired. If they make a serious play for the NIT I will back the idea of giving him one more year because even with a ridiculously awful schedule that is still a measurable amount of progress. (not a feeling) If they don't though then sorry but he has to go.

Plenty of teams rebuild and do it fast. With the transfer portal it really isn't all that hard and no one here is screaming NCAA OR BUST!1!!!or anything but asking for a team in a pretty weak conference to be able to approach .500 in said conference is not some sort of crazy ask. And we can still get there and for the love of Goldy I sure hope we do. But there will be excuses every year not to fire him just like there was with Pitino. "X player was hurt" or "The refs screwed us in the games that mattered" or "he can't control the player turnover in CBB" or whatever. To me, if there is a better coach that wants the job Ben Johnson hasn't done enough in my eyes to prevent that from happening.
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What does "plenty of teams" mean. 75%? 50%? 25%?

I think many of you are pointing to the exceptions rather than the reality for most schools. Not that it matters at this point. Johnson's first two years are sunk costs. The quicker you understand that....the better. His first real HS class are only sophomores. The team has taken a noticeable step forward. Team should return the majority of the roster. Coyle is going to let Johnson show whether he is capable of building a competent team.....and the results of the empty roster year one will have no bearing on that decision.
 

I suspect we will have a shooter/doogie note coming soon. ‘U hearing noise re: bball ineffectiveness.’
 


stocker08 said:
What does "plenty of teams" mean. 75%? 50%? 25%?

I think many of you are pointing to the exceptions rather than the reality for most schools. Not that it matters at this point. Johnson's first two years are sunk costs. The quicker you understand that....the better. His first real HS class are only sophomores. The team has taken a noticeable step forward. Team should return the majority of the roster. Coyle is going to let Johnson show whether he is capable of building a competent team.....and the results of the empty roster year one will have no bearing on that decision.
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The last 2 years may be "sunk costs" but neither the fans nor Mark Coyle has amnesia. He's shown how capable he is as a game coach and it's not good. It's quite bad in fact. The only way he can succeed is if he recruits way above expectations and it's pretty obvious that's not happening either.
 

howeda7 said:
The last 2 years may be "sunk costs" but neither the fans nor Mark Coyle has amnesia. He's shown how capable he is as a game coach and it's not good. It's quite bad in fact. The only way he can succeed is if he recruits way above expectations and it's pretty obvious that's not happening either.
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I do appreciate and take some satisfaction in how this orbits around to the sunk cost fallacy with some regularity.
 

stocker08 said:
What does "plenty of teams" mean. 75%? 50%? 25%?

I think many of you are pointing to the exceptions rather than the reality for most schools. Not that it matters at this point. Johnson's first two years are sunk costs. The quicker you understand that....the better. His first real HS class are only sophomores. The team has taken a noticeable step forward. Team should return the majority of the roster. Coyle is going to let Johnson show whether he is capable of building a competent team.....and the results of the empty roster year one will have no bearing on that decision.
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Here we go with " but but but his first class!"

So which part? The guy he has only started 3 games?
Maybe the one shooting 18% from 3 who quit mid season
Or hey I bet it's the one that played 5 minutes last night
Or heck let's toss in the guy who never plays

You act like it's some all time class.
 

stocker08 said:
I think that there's reason for optimism. If you all want to be pessimists....so be it. All you are doing is setting yourselves up for disappointment when Johnson returns next year.....which is incredibly likely based on the step forward this year. But until then....you instant gratification folks can keep at it. :ROFLMAO:

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Ben returning next year will have absolutely nothing to do with improvement. It will certainly be stated as the reason but the reason Ben returns is simply we can't afford to fire him. Coyle approved a ridiculous contract.
 

60's Guy said:
Ben returning next year will have absolutely nothing to do with improvement. It will certainly be stated as the reason but the reason Ben returns is simply we can't afford to fire him. Coyle approved a ridiculous contract.
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And it has been stated several times on here that they can get out of that contract the same way they avoided paying Pitino a buyout.
 

stocker08 said:
In terms of building a program from the ground up at a place that's had only a handful of NCAA Tournament wins over the past 25 years......yes. Some of you have unrealistic expectations and zero foresight. Impatience and knee jerk reactions are definite characteristics of the instant gratification....cut off your nose despite your face because you don't know any better crowd.

If you want Johnson to be fired....that's also fine. I'm just letting you know that your elevated blood pressure isn't going to let up soon. You're getting yourself worked up over something that's highly unlikely to occur this year. But by all means.....continue to bitch and moan and whine if it makes you feel better.
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"It's impossible to be competent in year 3 of a coaching tenure"

*checks previous coach:
In year 3 - 16-3(5-2 in conference)
Ranked 24th in KenPom, 25th in the AP Poll, 19th in the NET
8-3 against Q1-Q3 competition.
Took over a SIX-win team after the 2021 season.

Hmm...interesting.
 

Here's what I don't understand. People (Stocker mostly) defend Ben by saying he's building something great and "his" players are only sophomores, etc. But, in this age of the transfer portal, why in the world would you choose to support that route when there is evidence all over the country that you can easily build a winner and competitive team in 1 or, at most, 2 years. There is absolutely no loyalty, thus guarantee, that the high school players he recruited are going to stay here for a 3rd or 4th year. Hope they do. But, I have a feeling some will leave for greener pastures, more green in their pocket and a better chance to win.
 

Ben vs. Pitino not looking so good. It appears that Pitino might be headed for the NCAAs this year at New Mexico.

So far Pitino is 52-34 at New Mexico has the Lobos ranked and they have beaten a couple of teams that were ranked at the time of the matchup. He is 18-24 in conference- so so.

Ben is 34-46 and 9-38 in conference play.

Hard to fathom that Pitino would take a 2-15 team and be in position for the NCAAs in three years. We appear to be a ways away.

I think that Ben's HS recruiting is better and he doesn't take fliers on bad character guys. Pitino was a better floor coach and picked up better guards than Ben has. I do love Hawkins, and Christie will be very good. I cannot stand Ben's offensive scheme. Pitino's wasn't much better but when he had Mason, McBrayer, Murphy, Lynch and Coffey things ran pretty smoothly. I think Pitino would do better with this current Gopher roster than Ben is doing. Maybe Ben can turn it. Hope so.
 


formerlybis said:
Maybe Minnesota is just a hard place to win.

Must be “the administration”…
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It is a hard place to win- because of our history. The administration is part of the problem, certainly not all of it but they run the thing and it is hard to argue that it is well run in any way at this point. It's a pro sports town now and that has pluses and minuses.
 

bga1 said:
It is a hard place to win- because of our history. The administration is part of the problem, certainly not all of it but they run the thing and it is hard to argue that it is well run in any way at this point. It's a pro sports town now and that has pluses and minuses.
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Ridiculous. But you did need to ‘sell out’ for athletics. Yes, this means you allow a ‘Brent Moss’ to play football.
 

I've been more supportive of Johnson than most, minus a few other selective posters. However, it's time to start thinking about contingencies.

My Expectation of CBJ: I expected that we'd be competing for a tournament bid by his 3rd year (which I think is more than generous, especially in the portal era).

That's not happening this year (pending a miracle run). My biggest gripe with Johnson is similar to my final straw with Pitino.
  1. No Identity
  2. Consistently Outcoached
We're not tough and "gritty." We don't value basketball, can't play positionless basketball, and are mentally weak (see FT %).

If a Tier 1 coach is available, you make it happen in the off-season. If a Tier 1 coach isn't available, you figure out how to entice one at whatever cost.

Apathy is out in full force, and the only thing that will breathe life into this program is a fresh start with a proven winner.

Regarding the players, there is no guarantee that everyone will stay if Ben stays. Conversely, there's no guarantee that they will all leave if Ben leaves. A Tier 1 coach should be persuasive, get current guys to buy in, and be far more effective in the portal. Roster upside should not factor into the AD's decision in this day and age of CBB.

While it may be annoying that some posters never gave CBJ a chance, ultimately, results matter, and the body of work does not justify more time. Demanding a better product after three years of historically abysmal performance is not "shortsighted" anymore.

I wanted this hire to work out. Ben gives it everything he has (and then some). He's likable and would be loyal for the long term. But winning games matters, and he hasn't done enough of that when it counts.
 

60's Guy said:
Ben returning next year will have absolutely nothing to do with improvement. It will certainly be stated as the reason but the reason Ben returns is simply we can't afford to fire him. Coyle approved a ridiculous contract.
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We're drawing less 8k for every conference game except Wisconsin and Iowa and butts in seats is lucky if it's half of what's reported most games. Bringing him back will cost more in the long run.
 

formerlybis said:
Maybe Minnesota is just a hard place to win.

Must be “the administration”…
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I'm going to find a way to trademark "the administration" and make a fortune from people bringing up that excuse incessantly. I've been honest that I see that as a crutch and as excuse-making, right along with "Minnesota is a hard place to win." No place is an easy place to win, even if you have a tradition. Look at Louisville.
 

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