***MINNESOTA AT NEBRASKA BOTH TEAMS NEED A WIN IN-GAME THREAD!!!***

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MUgopher32 said:
I'm not making any excuses. I am being rational about the situation. He did not have the options. This isnt debateable. Guys didnt want to come here. Where do you draw the line on "choosing" players. He had to fill a team. Are you implying he chose Charlie Daniels over Brady Manek?

I have stated the obvious. He had far different situations. He didnt have as good of players to retain, not even close. And he doesnt have the name to attract other players yet either.

And again, from the actual coaching stand point, hes actually done better than anyone expected. His roster is light years behind either of the other two teams.

Dont get me wrong, I think anyone saying definitively "the future with Ben is very bright" is massively jumping the gun as well. But its cute you claim to watch basketball and find these fair critques so far.
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To say BJ didn’t have a chance at other players is patently false. Your entire second paragraph is excuse after excuse!!!!

Carr and Robbins are good players.

Any critique of BJ is grounds for flogging from a few here, including you. Your sensitivity around it is off the charts. Complete lack of objectivity on your part.
 

BarnBurner said:
To say BJ didn’t have a chance at other players is patently false. Your entire second paragraph is excuse after excuse!!!!

Carr and Robbins are good players.

Any critique of BJ is grounds for flogging from a few here, including you. Your sensitivity around it is off the charts. Complete lack of objectivity on your part.
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Its not false. Again you didnt answer the question, are you saying he could have had Brady Manek?? What proof do you have that he CHOSE this roster over better players. He did chose to fill a team.

Robbins? Honestly, wouldnt surprise me if Robbins was here and you said it was Bens fault he was hurt. Thats your rationale. Carr is decent and was never going to stay even if John Wooden was reincarnated as coach.

Im objective. Objective is saying that Ben Johnsons coaching situation was drastically different than Shaka Smart or Tj Otzelbergers.

Im not sensitive at all ha. Just calling out incompetence as I see it.
 

MUgopher32 said:
I'm not making any excuses. I am being rational about the situation. He did not have the options. This isnt debateable. Guys didnt want to come here. Where do you draw the line on "choosing" players. He had to fill a team. Are you implying he chose Charlie Daniels over Brady Manek?

I have stated the obvious. He had far different situations. He didnt have as good of players to retain, not even close. And he doesnt have the name to attract other players yet either.

And again, from the actual coaching stand point, hes actually done better than anyone expected. His roster is light years behind either of the other two teams.

Dont get me wrong, I think anyone saying definitively "the future with Ben is very bright" is massively jumping the gun as well. But its cute you claim to watch basketball and find these fair critques so far.
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"saying the future with Ben is very bright is massively jumping the gun..."

AMEN..

People were declaring Ben a genius before reality set in. It was fun, but no indication of the future. Ben has a very tough job of ever winning at Minnesota. Odds say he won't succeed. But let's hope he proves them wrong.
 

MUgopher32 said:
Its not false. Again you didnt answer the question, are you saying he could have had Brady Manek?? What proof do you have that he CHOSE this roster over better players. He did chose to fill a team.

Robbins? Honestly, wouldnt surprise me if Robbins was here and you said it was Bens fault he was hurt. Thats your rationale. Carr is decent and was never going to stay even if John Wooden was reincarnated as coach.

Im objective. Objective is saying that Ben Johnsons coaching situation was drastically different than Shaka Smart or Tj Otzelbergers.

Im not sensitive at all ha. Just calling out incompetence as I see it.
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If Manek was in the portal, yes a transfer to Mn was indeed possible. Just like a transfer to go heels.
Didn’t ever say bj chose this roster over better players. Point out where I said that, please.
You simply don’t like any questioning of any aspect of bj and his decisions. That gets you to your Robbins comment above. Lack of objectivity.
Johnson didn’t have hc experience. That is the main difference. ISU was a train wreck last season. Marq did jack with good talent. Nothing makes either location better than Mn. Previous hc experience.
 

BarnBurner said:
How about some black and white, eco sport. The player on the current Mn roster are Bens hand picked. The poster above said they were not his guys. Flat out false.
They are his first team. Period.
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What is your deal with the name calling? It is childish and, many times, extremely offensive. 'Conversing' with you is so unpleasant.

You have shown little interest in exploring the nuances of any issue. You latch on to any random statement said by any poster and run it to the ground. I think you truly just have a perverse need to be right all of the time.

We get that the only fact that you care about is 11-10 (2-10). What was your prediction for this season? What facts did you use to make that prediction? If you were a betting man, what would have been the over/under of overall and conference wins? Can you admit that this team has exceeded your original expectations?

Is it not appropriate to adjust expectations based on new data that comes in on a daily basis? This data is black and white. Injuries and game cancellations are obvious data points. A thorough analysis must look at ALL available data. This can include less obvious or less easy to measure data points such as player minutes, mental fatigue, travel delays, etc.

Many here are not looking solely at this season to make an accurate judgement and assessment on Coach Johnson. You can look at this year as an abject failure if you so choose. I feel that is shortsighted and not looking for minor improvements that do not show up in the box score or as wins. It ignores many of the facts that posters have been trying to share with you. This is the grey that most are interested in exploring.

You don't plant a seed and get bent out of shape because it didn't produce a fruit on its first day. Most here are looking for signs that this program could develop into something that will lead to the success and fruits that we all hope will follow.
 


Allshade said:
"saying the future with Ben is very bright is massively jumping the gun..."

AMEN..

People were declaring Ben a genius before reality set in. It was fun, but no indication of the future. Ben has a very tough job of ever winning at Minnesota. Odds say he won't succeed. But let's hope he proves them wrong.
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You don't think getting a rag tag group of players to play together and start the season as well as they did is an indication of what Ben and this staff can do? Was it luck?

No one declared Ben a genius or said he was a sure fire future HOF coach. They appreciated what he has done with so little and see glimmers of hope that he might be able to do some things with better talent in the future. He has already recruited some of that talent so he is already reaping rewards.
 

BarnBurner said:
If Manek was in the portal, yes a transfer to Mn was indeed possible. Just like a transfer to go heels.
Didn’t ever say bj chose this roster over better players. Point out where I said that, please.
You simply don’t like any questioning of any aspect of bj and his decisions. That gets you to your Robbins comment above. Lack of objectivity.
Johnson didn’t have hc experience. That is the main difference. ISU was a train wreck last season. Marq did jack with good talent. Nothing makes either location better than Mn. Previous hc experience.
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So your logic is that if a guy was in the portal Ben shoud have gotten him. THe best of the best. Otherwise fair to critque. And youre the objective one?

Marquette with Shaka is a clear better destination(for now) than Gophers with Ben. Its a basketball school in a NBA arena with an insane budget. Its going to appeal to the coach, and then appeal to the player along with the coach.

Again, you keep preaching objectively yet try to claim that comparing Ben to Shaka(or any of these other veteran coaches) is even remotely reasonable. Does Ben suck because Chris Beard and Texas lured better talent?? Is that your next incompetent comparison?

You just want to hate for no logical reason. Your entire argument is that is basically its Bens fault he didnt get the 7 best transfers available. If thats the hill you are going to die on, go for it. Just reflects on your lack of basketball knowledge.
 

MUgopher32 said:
So your logic is that if a guy was in the portal Ben shoud have gotten him. THe best of the best. Otherwise fair to critque. And youre the objective one?

Marquette with Shaka is a clear better destination(for now) than Gophers with Ben. Its a basketball school in a NBA arena with an insane budget. Its going to appeal to the coach, and then appeal to the player along with the coach.

Again, you keep preaching objectively yet try to claim that comparing Ben to Shaka(or any of these other veteran coaches) is even remotely reasonable. Does Ben suck because Chris Beard and Texas lured better talent?? Is that your next incompetent comparison?

You just want to hate for no logical reason. Your entire argument is that is basically its Bens fault he didnt get the 7 best transfers available. If thats the hill you are going to die on, go for it. Just reflects on your lack of basketball knowledge.
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Logic says that any player in the portal is available to every team and coach, MN included. Stop making things up.
Ben is compared to Shaka, and every other coach in college BB. Fans, boosters, potential players, tv/other media talking heads. And more. All year long. I know it doesn't fit your narrative, and those are the facts.

Hate? Here is what the other poster said------ "These also aren't really Ben's guys." That is flat out false, you know it, I know it, anyone paying attention and honest will admit as much. Here again you are making things up. Why? And BYW - I never said " its Bens fault he didnt get the 7 best transfers available." YOU did.

Nice attempt, poor poor execution.
 

ecoperson said:
What is your deal with the name calling? It is childish and, many times, extremely offensive. 'Conversing' with you is so unpleasant.

You have shown little interest in exploring the nuances of any issue. You latch on to any random statement said by any poster and run it to the ground. I think you truly just have a perverse need to be right all of the time.

We get that the only fact that you care about is 11-10 (2-10). What was your prediction for this season? What facts did you use to make that prediction? If you were a betting man, what would have been the over/under of overall and conference wins? Can you admit that this team has exceeded your original expectations?

Is it not appropriate to adjust expectations based on new data that comes in on a daily basis? This data is black and white. Injuries and game cancellations are obvious data points. A thorough analysis must look at ALL available data. This can include less obvious or less easy to measure data points such as player minutes, mental fatigue, travel delays, etc.

Many here are not looking solely at this season to make an accurate judgement and assessment on Coach Johnson. You can look at this year as an abject failure if you so choose. I feel that is shortsighted and not looking for minor improvements that do not show up in the box score or as wins. It ignores many of the facts that posters have been trying to share with you. This is the grey that most are interested in exploring.

You don't plant a seed and get bent out of shape because it didn't produce a fruit on its first day. Most here are looking for signs that this program could develop into something that will lead to the success and fruits that we all hope will follow.
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You ask for facts, data points, data, etc and THEN say the following: "It ignores many of the facts that posters have been trying to share with you. This is the grey that most are interested in exploring."

So, facts are now grey!! :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

The one FACT that we know RIGHT now - the record of the MN Mens BB team.

BTW - so sorry for the ecosport name. If that is offensive, oh my.......
 



BarnBurner said:
Logic says that any player in the portal is available to every team and coach, MN included. Stop making things up.
Ben is compared to Shaka, and every other coach in college BB. Fans, boosters, potential players, tv/other media talking heads. And more. All year long. I know it doesn't fit your narrative, and those are the facts.

Hate? Here is what the other poster said------ "These also aren't really Ben's guys." That is flat out false, you know it, I know it, anyone paying attention and honest will admit as much. Here again you are making things up. Why? And BYW - I never said " its Bens fault he didnt get the 7 best transfers available." YOU did.

Nice attempt, poor poor execution.
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I didnt make anything up. Its your exact words. Ben Johnson is a failure in year 1 because he didnt Blue Blood transfers. Youre creating the criteria. Youre the one lacking objectivity.

Gopher fans have been comparing Ben to Shaka?? You maybe. Hasnt made it around the local TC area. Media talking heads?? Uh no, actually all those talking heads all say how how impressive Ben has been thus far. Ok so most articles about best new coaching jobs this season have Shaka in the top 3 and Ben around 7. So maybe thats the comparison????? But "objectively"(your word of the day) those articles really are just praising Bens placement and not at any point saying "Ben just isnt cutting it like Tj, Shaka and Tommy"

I can't even give ya nice attempt.
 

ecoperson said:
What is your deal with the name calling? It is childish and, many times, extremely offensive. 'Conversing' with you is so unpleasant.

You have shown little interest in exploring the nuances of any issue. You latch on to any random statement said by any poster and run it to the ground. I think you truly just have a perverse need to be right all of the time.

We get that the only fact that you care about is 11-10 (2-10). What was your prediction for this season? What facts did you use to make that prediction? If you were a betting man, what would have been the over/under of overall and conference wins? Can you admit that this team has exceeded your original expectations?

Is it not appropriate to adjust expectations based on new data that comes in on a daily basis? This data is black and white. Injuries and game cancellations are obvious data points. A thorough analysis must look at ALL available data. This can include less obvious or less easy to measure data points such as player minutes, mental fatigue, travel delays, etc.

Many here are not looking solely at this season to make an accurate judgement and assessment on Coach Johnson. You can look at this year as an abject failure if you so choose. I feel that is shortsighted and not looking for minor improvements that do not show up in the box score or as wins. It ignores many of the facts that posters have been trying to share with you. This is the grey that most are interested in exploring.

You don't plant a seed and get bent out of shape because it didn't produce a fruit on its first day. Most here are looking for signs that this program could develop into something that will lead to the success and fruits that we all hope will follow.
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OK. I don't know if you aren't aware of it, but anything you say to BB is a waste of your time. Anything you read is a waste of your time. He needs to be on ignore. Don't think twice about it.
 

Allshade said:
"saying the future with Ben is very bright is massively jumping the gun..."

AMEN..

People were declaring Ben a genius before reality set in. It was fun, but no indication of the future. Ben has a very tough job of ever winning at Minnesota. Odds say he won't succeed. But let's hope he proves them wrong.
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BarnBurner said:
Logic says that any player in the portal is available to every team and coach, MN included. Stop making things up.
Ben is compared to Shaka, and every other coach in college BB. Fans, boosters, potential players, tv/other media talking heads. And more. All year long. I know it doesn't fit your narrative, and those are the facts.

Hate? Here is what the other poster said------ "These also aren't really Ben's guys." That is flat out false, you know it, I know it, anyone paying attention and honest will admit as much. Here again you are making things up. Why? And BYW - I never said " its Bens fault he didnt get the 7 best transfers available." YOU did.

Nice attempt, poor poor execution.
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Does logic also say every player portal has an equal interest in every school interested in him?
 

BarnBurner said:
So you believe the current roster of Mn mens bb is NOT bens guys?

yes or no
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I mean, by definition, if you have practically 100 percent roster turnover, they're all your guys.

And that's not an insult to these guys. I love this team. They've just gotten to the limit of their capability and capacity. You can see they're not just physically fatigued; they're mentally tired. The Nebraska game is the only conference game they've been favored in. You can hold off the hordes at the Alamo for only so long.
 




MUgopher32 said:
I didnt make anything up. Its your exact words. Ben Johnson is a failure in year 1 because he didnt Blue Blood transfers. Youre creating the criteria. Youre the one lacking objectivity.

Gopher fans have been comparing Ben to Shaka?? You maybe. Hasnt made it around the local TC area. Media talking heads?? Uh no, actually all those talking heads all say how how impressive Ben has been thus far. Ok so most articles about best new coaching jobs this season have Shaka in the top 3 and Ben around 7. So maybe thats the comparison????? But "objectively"(your word of the day) those articles really are just praising Bens placement and not at any point saying "Ben just isnt cutting it like Tj, Shaka and Tommy"

I can't even give ya nice attempt.
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Show me where I said your second sentence. Making it up.
Why?
 


Dakota2 said:
Then why did you say every player in the portal was available to Johnson? If a guy is not interested in transferring to Minnesota he is not really available.
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Yeah....ummm....you are wasting your time if you expect BB to be consistent with his arguments. I am newer to the basketball board and others tried to warm me about him but I still got sucked in.
 

Dakota2 said:
Then why did you say every player in the portal was available to Johnson? If a guy is not interested in transferring to Minnesota he is not really available.
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Equal interest is different than available. Thanks for the assist.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Yeah....ummm....you are wasting your time if you expect BB to be consistent with his arguments. I am newer to the basketball board and others tried to warm me about him but I still got sucked in.
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Ah, others………..moderators friends.
 

BarnBurner said:
Equal interest is different than available. Thanks for the assist.
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Not so fast, slick. You clearly faulted Johnson for not being able to get the best portal player because they were all "available". Now you're saying, well no, not really. You're most welcome for the assist.
 

Dakota2 said:
Not so fast, slick. You clearly faulted Johnson for not being able to get the best portal player because they were all "available". Now you're saying, well no, not really. You're most welcome for the assist.
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Just stop.
1. ALL in the portal were available. Fact 1.
2. Clearly faulted? Strike two, pal. Pointing out that the players on the team are indeed bj’s players isn’t faulting. Fact 2.
3. BJ’s job is to get the best recruits, portal and everywhere else. Fact 3.
Seems a lot of fans love the players on the team, until they don’t. Steeerike three, dak
 

Dakota2 said:
Not so fast, slick. You clearly faulted Johnson for not being able to get the best portal player because they were all "available". Now you're saying, well no, not really. You're most welcome for the assist.
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lol....good luck reasoning with someone that can post #1 from his reply to you and somehow think that proves whatever point he is pretending to make.

We have all dealt with those people that you can't reason with because they can only look at things in black and white and are incapable of seeing things any other way.

I would bet the majority of us understand that all players in the portal were not available to the Gophers but for someone like BB that statement is too difficult because from a purely factual standpoint all players in the portal are available.
 

BarnBurner said:
Just stop.
1. ALL in the portal were available. Fact 1.
2. Clearly faulted? Strike two, pal. Pointing out that the players on the team are indeed bj’s players isn’t faulting. Fact 2.
3. BJ’s job is to get the best recruits, portal and everywhere else. Fact 3.
Seems a lot of fans love the players on the team, until they don’t. Steeerike three, dak
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Too bad, slick. Gave you an assist and you blew the bunny. The fact that every guy every year is Johnson's guy has nothing to to with your absurd screeching about Ben "should have been able to get" any player in the portal.
 

MNVCGUY said:
lol....good luck reasoning with someone that can post #1 from his reply to you and somehow think that proves whatever point he is pretending to make.

We have all dealt with those people that you can't reason with because they can only look at things in black and white and are incapable of seeing things any other way.

I would bet the majority of us understand that all players in the portal were not available to the Gophers but for someone like BB that statement is too difficult because from a purely factual standpoint all players in the portal are available.
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Don't over complicate it. He's just a clown who makes stupid statements then needs to spin like a top when called.
 

Dakota2 said:
Too bad, slick. Gave you an assist and you blew the bunny. The fact that every guy every year is Johnson's guy has nothing to to with your absurd screeching about Ben "should have been able to get" any player in the portal.
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Ok
Point out the post that I said bj should have been able to get any player in the portal.

Let’s have it Dakota. Quote needed.
 



BarnBurner said:
Can’t do it.
Proves you a liar.
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Don't think it needs to be proved that no sane person would go back to re-read your posts. Kind of like wanting to review the transcripts of The View.
 

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