***MINNESOTA AT NEBRASKA BOTH TEAMS NEED A WIN IN-GAME THREAD!!!***

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Dakota2 said:
The other reason there are not many lock down defenders is that there are a lot of incredible offensive players.
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I agree but might spin it a bit differently. There are a lot MORE incredible offensive players as that tends to be where players spend the most time developing their games. This makes a lock down defender's job even harder as they can't take a break even when the opponent sends in a bench player. There is a reason that we rarely see defense played during the NBA regular season.
 

Spaulding!No! said:
It is tough for a team of one and done players to stay engaged through a failing campaign.
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Interesting idea. These players have no future together and many don't know what their future even holds so there may be a little less fight than they had at the beginning. Sports can be a marathon. We all start running 6 minute miles but suddenly drop to 7 and 8 minute miles as we move through the course.
 

bga1 said:
I saw some things the other night that had nothing to do with fatigue or athleticism. There was some poor team defense and people out of place. Nebraska, not exactly the flyin' Illini of yore, had people wide open under the basket on inbounds plays and in other situations.
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I think this points to mental fatigue. The sharpness early in the season is just not there.
 

howeda7 said:
It is. But it doesn't have to be. Just once I'd like a team that finishes stronger than it started.
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Actually, although late season slides were a trademark of sorts for him, Pitino did have a few teams that played well later in the season. His 2017 team was sitting at 15-7 at the end of January and then proceeded to win all of their games (8) in February before losing to Wisconsin in the last regular season game in early March. Then they beat Mich State in the Big Ten quarterfinals but the Springs injury happened late in the game and it was over after that. His 2019 team was sitting at 17-11 on February 24th but won five of the next seven before ending their season by being blown out by Michigan State in the NCAA tournament (where Murphy was injured early in the game). And, of course, his first team won 5 straight in the NIT. Not coincidently, those were his only good seasons here.
 

MNVCGUY said:
If the game last night takes Minnesota off your list of potential college destinations then you weren't really considering Minnesota as a destination in the first place.
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I agree with that but that's fairly cold comfort because top prep and transfer recruits are unlikely to be considering us regardless of this season's outcome. Our program hasn't been very relevant for awhile now and neither of our two most recent coaches have had much of a pedigree. Despite his dismal showing so far at Nebraska, it's not surprising that Hoiberg can get some talent there because he does have a pedigree (star college basketball player, NBA player, NBA executive, successful coach at Iowa State).

Having an awful season by itself doesn't preclude getting some good recruits. After his horrific 2016 season, Pitino was able to get grad transfer Springs. Iowa State had about as bad of a season in 2021 as a P6 program could possibly have but they still landed some good transfers and prep recruits.
 


bga1 said:
I saw some things the other night that had nothing to do with fatigue or athleticism. There was some poor team defense and people out of place. Nebraska, not exactly the flyin' Illini of yore, had people wide open under the basket on inbounds plays and in other situations.
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These also aren't really Ben's guys. It'll be interesting when we see some of these kids be in the system for at least 2-3 years to really shape them.

All of these seniors in here are all from programs that really established their habits. It's tough to just bring all these guys in as 22-24 year olds for 1 year after 3-4 years elsewhere. Habits have been formed.
 

skiumah1 said:
These also aren't really Ben's guys. It'll be interesting when we see some of these kids be in the system for at least 2-3 years to really shape them.

All of these seniors in here are all from programs that really established their habits. It's tough to just bring all these guys in as 22-24 year olds for 1 year after 3-4 years elsewhere. Habits have been formed.
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Well, five of these transfers (Willis, Battle, Stephens, Loewe, and Sutherlin) are either pretty good or good enough to play in the rotation. If we had a 9 man rotation with no player worse than Loewe or Sutherlin we'd have a much better team right now (not top six of the conference but better). I think the critical factors for this late season slide are:

1) depth - with so few trustworthy players the top four have really played a lot of minutes and fatigue has set in. We have the #1, #3, #8, and #13 ranked conference players in minutes per game. Only one other conference team (Rutgers) has even two players in the top 13. Six teams have no players ranked in the top 13.

2) Ben's failure to recruit competent big men; the stiffest and most unathletic front court in memory. So much falls on the back court. Sutherlin and sometimes even Loewe have to play like severely undersized 4s. #336 out of #350 in rebounding margin (-.5.7 per game). Nebraska has an even worse margin and we did manage to outbound them by 3 in the recent loss.
 

skiumah1 said:
These also aren't really Ben's guys. It'll be interesting when we see some of these kids be in the system for at least 2-3 years to really shape them.

All of these seniors in here are all from programs that really established their habits. It's tough to just bring all these guys in as 22-24 year olds for 1 year after 3-4 years elsewhere. Habits have been formed.
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Ben was put in a tough spot, no doubt. Unfortunately, he is going to have to go right back to the transfer well again this spring for at least 3 more players- some of whom will have to be significant players if not leaders.
 

skiumah1 said:
These also aren't really Ben's guys. It'll be interesting when we see some of these kids be in the system for at least 2-3 years to really shape them.

All of these seniors in here are all from programs that really established their habits. It's tough to just bring all these guys in as 22-24 year olds for 1 year after 3-4 years elsewhere. Habits have been formed.
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Yes, they are. Been told right here on GH Ben would not bring in any kid that he didnt think fit the culture.....
 



cjbfbp said:
Well, five of these transfers (Willis, Battle, Stephens, Loewe, and Sutherlin) are either pretty good or good enough to play in the rotation. If we had a 9 man rotation with no player worse than Loewe or Sutherlin we'd have a much better team right now (not top six of the conference but better). I think the critical factors for this late season slide are:

1) depth - with so few trustworthy players the top four have really played a lot of minutes and fatigue has set in. We have the #1, #3, #8, and #13 ranked conference players in minutes per game. Only one other conference team (Rutgers) has even two players in the top 13. Six teams have no players ranked in the top 13.

2) Ben's failure to recruit competent big men; the stiffest and most unathletic front court in memory. So much falls on the back court. Sutherlin and sometimes even Loewe have to play like severely undersized 4s. #336 out of #350 in rebounding margin (-.5.7 per game). Nebraska has an even worse margin and we did manage to outbound them by 3 in the recent loss.
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Might add # 3. They've been scouted now and teams have a better idea of how to defend and how to attack them.
 

cliche time -
you're never as good as you think you are after a victory, and

you're never as bad as you think you are after a defeat.

when the Gophs were winning games, most of us overlooked or minimized the team's flaws. when they started losing, the flaws were amplified, and that is what people are focusing on.

the season is not over yet. if the Gophs can win a few games down the stretch, or do something in the conf tournament, the narrative on this team will change again.

on the other hand, if they stink up the joint the rest of the way, then we're looking at a different narrative.

either way, life goes on. I will still root for the Gophers to win.
 

cjbfbp said:
Well, five of these transfers (Willis, Battle, Stephens, Loewe, and Sutherlin) are either pretty good or good enough to play in the rotation. If we had a 9 man rotation with no player worse than Loewe or Sutherlin we'd have a much better team right now (not top six of the conference but better). I think the critical factors for this late season slide are:

1) depth - with so few trustworthy players the top four have really played a lot of minutes and fatigue has set in. We have the #1, #3, #8, and #13 ranked conference players in minutes per game. Only one other conference team (Rutgers) has even two players in the top 13. Six teams have no players ranked in the top 13.

2) Ben's failure to recruit competent big men; the stiffest and most unathletic front court in memory. So much falls on the back court. Sutherlin and sometimes even Loewe have to play like severely undersized 4s. #336 out of #350 in rebounding margin (-.5.7 per game). Nebraska has an even worse margin and we did manage to outbound them by 3 in the recent loss.
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I'm not sure framing #2 as a failure on Ben's part is totally fair when 2 of the guys he was counting on being major contributors this year were lost before the season even started in Fox and Ihnen. Our front court would look very different with those two in the mix.

He hasn't been building the roster for multiple years to be able to withstand injuries better. He was assembling a completely new team and then lost 2 key pieces from it right off the bat. That is going to be tough for any team to recover from but especially one with a first year coach and a bunch of guys from all over the country coming together for the first time.
 

BarnBurner said:
Yes, they are. Been told right here on GH Ben would not bring in any kid that he didnt think fit the culture.....
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I would love to know if you actually believe half the stuff you say or if you are just one of those people the enjoys trying to get a rise out of people....You are very Reusse like in that way.
 



MNVCGUY said:
I would love to know if you actually believe half the stuff you say or if you are just one of those people the enjoys trying to get a rise out of people....You are very Reusse like in that way.
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So you believe the current roster of Mn mens bb is NOT bens guys?

yes or no
 


MNVCGUY said:
I would love to know if you actually believe half the stuff you say or if you are just one of those people the enjoys trying to get a rise out of people....You are very Reusse like in that way.
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Actually, he's accurate. It's been stated numerous times on GH.
 

ecoperson said:
Interesting idea. These players have no future together and many don't know what their future even holds so there may be a little less fight than they had at the beginning. Sports can be a marathon. We all start running 6 minute miles but suddenly drop to 7 and 8 minute miles as we move through the course.
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Both are wrong, when you recruit good people this doesn't happen,we have good people.
 

BarnBurner said:
So you believe the current roster of Mn mens bb is NOT bens guys?

yes or no
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Yes, of course they are guys that Ben picked who he felt would fit his system but let's not pretend he was working under ideal conditions trying to build a roster from the ground up in a short amount of time. He was also clearly looking to the future with how he chose to construct this year's roster by not bringing in a bunch of multi year guys in order to leave a lot of flexibility for 2022-23 and beyond.

So making assumptions about how Johnson's future teams will be constructed based on the 21-22 roster is pretty foolish.
 


Spaulding!No! said:
It didn’t have to be this way but
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So what should have been done differently? Instead of throwing out one liners put some thought into it and tell us what Johnson should have done differently.

He was hired at the end of March and the season started on November 1st. So he had 7 months to hire a coaching staff and build a roster essentially from scratch, and then he lost two guys who would have been significant contributors this season before the season even started.

He had a ridiculously short amount of time to scout players and get them to transfer here. This season is what it is, the only surprising thing about it is how well the guys played early in the year, and how competitive they have been against some good teams, given all the things working against the program for the 21-22 season.
 

BarnBurner said:
Yes, they are. Been told right here on GH Ben would not bring in any kid that he didnt think fit the culture.....
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I think he is saying not Ben's ideal guys. He wasn't going to walk in on day one and pull his ideal set of players out of the portal. At some point, he picked from the mismatched set that was available for him as a first time head coach AND still fit his culture. I have no doubt that Ben could have recruited higher ranked players in the portal. He even alluded to this in interviews. He wanted players with a certain grit to help build a start to what he hopes will be a signature culture here at the U.
 

ecoperson said:
I think he is saying not Ben's ideal guys. He wasn't going to walk in on day one and pull his ideal set of players out of the portal. At some point, he picked from the mismatched set that was available for him as a first time head coach AND still fit his culture. I have no doubt that Ben could have recruited higher ranked players in the portal. He even alluded to this in interviews. He wanted players with a certain grit to help build a start to what he hopes will be a signature culture here at the U.
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How about some black and white, eco sport. The player on the current Mn roster are Bens hand picked. The poster above said they were not his guys. Flat out false.
They are his first team. Period.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Yes, of course they are guys that Ben picked who he felt would fit his system but let's not pretend he was working under ideal conditions trying to build a roster from the ground up in a short amount of time. He was also clearly looking to the future with how he chose to construct this year's roster by not bringing in a bunch of multi year guys in order to leave a lot of flexibility for 2022-23 and beyond.

So making assumptions about how Johnson's future teams will be constructed based on the 21-22 roster is pretty foolish.
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Your talking with a guy who thinks Ben deserves criticism and can fairly be compared in 1 season to what TJO and Shaka are doing. He probably thinks the same of Adams, Lloyd and Moser as well.

In his mind, all coaching situations are the exact same. And Ben deserves flack for not being as successful....yet.

You are not exactly conversing with a rational mind.
 

MNVCGUY said:
I'm not sure framing #2 as a failure on Ben's part is totally fair when 2 of the guys he was counting on being major contributors this year were lost before the season even started in Fox and Ihnen. Our front court would look very different with those two in the mix.
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I'm not going to absolve him of negligence completely here. Fox was injured very shortly after he committed. There was plenty of time left to pick up a replacement. Ihnen was injured significantly later but there was still time, at least enough time to get someone better than Ogele. Daniels committed with plenty of time left. Surely we could have gotten someone better than a player who averaged only 14 minutes per game as a senior at Stephen F. Austin. To rework an old saying: he's everything we expected and less.

For some reason, Ben seems to have decided to close the book on recruiting for the 2022 team and move on to 2023. Perhaps that doesn't matter so much in the long run but I hope he now realizes that he can't get by with a front court like this and he must do much better in the future. I've seen this sort of team deficiency before with Todd Lickliter's Iowa teams (front court recruiting that was really poor in both quantity and quality). Tim Miles had a similar recruiting problem (although not as bad) for his first four or five years at Nebraska (he also had problem holding on to front court players).
 

MNVCGUY said:
Yes, of course they are guys that Ben picked who he felt would fit his system but let's not pretend he was working under ideal conditions trying to build a roster from the ground up in a short amount of time. He was also clearly looking to the future with how he chose to construct this year's roster by not bringing in a bunch of multi year guys in order to leave a lot of flexibility for 2022-23 and beyond.

So making assumptions about how Johnson's future teams will be constructed based on the 21-22 roster is pretty foolish.
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Ideal conditions? :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: You appear to be an apologist, no matter the topic concerning BJ. Good for you.

Just stop with your excuses!

Dont really see anyone assuming much about future roster construction, other than it has to be markedly better - next year and each year after. And, the wins must pile up. Beginning next year.

If MN BB has a conference season like this one next year, things might get messy quick for BJ.
 

MUgopher32 said:
Your talking with a guy who thinks Ben deserves criticism and can fairly be compared in 1 season to what TJO and Shaka are doing. He probably thinks the same of Adams, Lloyd and Moser as well.

In his mind, all coaching situations are the exact same. And Ben deserves flack for not being as successful....yet.

You are not exactly conversing with a rational mind.
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Well, it is season 1 for each of them.
ISU was a dumpster fire last year, winning only a few games and had a roster blow up.
Marq a bit better, and still had a bunch of key transfers - out and in.

Lots of comparable there. Difference is previous HC experience.

Your right, criticism in any form or quantity should not be assigned to any first year coach, especially at MN, no matter the decisions made by the coach.
 

skiumah1 said:
These also aren't really Ben's guys. It'll be interesting when we see some of these kids be in the system for at least 2-3 years to really shape them.

All of these seniors in here are all from programs that really established their habits. It's tough to just bring all these guys in as 22-24 year olds for 1 year after 3-4 years elsewhere. Habits have been formed.
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All of the factors mentioned have validity, especially physical and mental fatigue. But there is one factor which overrides all. The horses. Ponies don't outrun thoroughbreds.
 

BarnBurner said:
Well, it is season 1 for each of them.
ISU was a dumpster fire last year, winning only a few games and had a roster blow up.
Marq a bit better, and still had a bunch of key transfers - out and in.

Lots of comparable there. Difference is previous HC experience.

Your right, criticism in any form or quantity should not be assigned to any first year coach, especially at MN, no matter the decisions made by the coach.
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Yeah 1 season thatsa where the comps start. You make it sound like Ben chose all these guys over better options. Ben was a 1st year 1st time ever head coach he didnt have options. He didnt have recruits to bring with him.

Or the type of recruits to keep that both those coaches did.

If you think its at all reasonable to think that Ben before ever being on the job bring in a Daryl Morsell, you just are not rational.

Even if Ben kept more last year gophers. He didnt have a Justin Lewis to keep. Nothing close to it.

The gophers have zero guys that would start for Shaka and 2 that would even play. Battle probably starts for ISU but thats it. So team results are unfair.

If this is still an issue after this year in the portal? A few judgements can be made. But youre acting like he had to exact same chances as established coaches did. He didnt.
 

MUgopher32 said:
Yeah 1 season thatsa where the comps start. You make it sound like Ben chose all these guys over better options. Ben was a 1st year 1st time ever head coach he didnt have options. He didnt have recruits to bring with him.

Or the type of recruits to keep that both those coaches did.

If you think its at all reasonable to think that Ben before ever being on the job bring in a Daryl Morsell, you just are not rational.

Even if Ben kept more last year gophers. He didnt have a Justin Lewis to keep. Nothing close to it.

The gophers have zero guys that would start for Shaka and 2 that would even play. Battle probably starts for ISU but thats it. So team results are unfair.

If this is still an issue after this year in the portal? A few judgements can be made. But youre acting like he had to exact same chances as established coaches did. He didnt.
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He had opportunities to bring players with him, the same as any other coach. Now, if the players known to him and familiar with him don’t want to come? That’s an excuse from you.
BJ did choose these players, and that is the point. Dude above said they really are not his players. Another excuse.
Cute how you and a few others just can’t simply admit the obvious.
I hope he is wildly success at Mn, you don’t believe that but that’s ok.
 

BarnBurner said:
He had opportunities to bring players with him, the same as any other coach. Now, if the players known to him and familiar with him don’t want to come? That’s an excuse from you.
BJ did choose these players, and that is the point. Dude above said they really are not his players. Another excuse.
Cute how you and a few others just can’t simply admit the obvious.
I hope he is wildly success at Mn, you don’t believe that but that’s ok.
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I'm not making any excuses. I am being rational about the situation. He did not have the options. This isnt debateable. Guys didnt want to come here. Where do you draw the line on "choosing" players. He had to fill a team. Are you implying he chose Charlie Daniels over Brady Manek?

I have stated the obvious. He had far different situations. He didnt have as good of players to retain, not even close. And he doesnt have the name to attract other players yet either.

And again, from the actual coaching stand point, hes actually done better than anyone expected. His roster is light years behind either of the other two teams.

Dont get me wrong, I think anyone saying definitively "the future with Ben is very bright" is massively jumping the gun as well. But its cute you claim to watch basketball and find these fair critques so far.
 

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