Juwan Howard

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MinnGopher said:
Dabbling in facts now? Can I not pull your card that I heard this from some random guy? I didn't say I couldn't name one, its called memory. Simply said you can dig it up and you named yourself lol. You asked a question you knew the answer to. Yeah I agree, Wayzata coach should be fired. I wasn't in the same camp as multiple people saying he should never coach again, I think he could maybe learn from it, take time off, and give it a go down the road. Could be unlikely given the environment we live in now.

The funny part to me is how people share what they conceive to be the most important issue/event when a scenario happens like the UM/UW game or Wayzata/Minnetonka. Gard and El-Amin are in comparable spots to me. Gard tried to grab a guy and talk it out when Howard told him to get lost, El-Amin talked a little trash to the Wayzata bench. We can characterize differently but both are somewhat similar occurrences, trash talking and grabbing someone to chat with who is upset. You chose to say poor Wayzata coach people are talking online about him, and I guess what is the difference between people doing that locally and people on a national scale doing that to Juwan? You had a nice piece about El Amin and his actions, what about Gard? I'm just saying be consistent man. That and your telepathy to know who El Amin was yelling at and Juwans state of mind/intent are interesting. Or did you hear that from someone off the board?

Also love pretending like you know everyone on here with the memory comment lol. We've maybe interacted once or twice before other than the Wayzata coach/El Amin thread? Can you substantiate or is that another one of the I make a claim and if you can't prove it false its true?
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WTF are you talking about? You and I agree on both accounts. I did NOT choose to say poor Wayzata coach. I said he should be fired. You have your people mixed up. All of your weird ranting about telepathy and El Amin's state of mind. . . I have no idea what you're talking about. I gave you the consistency you wanted, I think BOTH the Wayzata coach and Howard should be fired (regardless of if El Amin talked trash or Gard grabbed Howard's arm). I think they should BOTH be fired.

I also have no idea anything about what you have posted before this thread. If we interacted in the El Amin thread, I don't remember it. I simply asked you a question if you were in the same boat as me and you are. Cool. I was not implying you weren't.

As far as the basic premise of your post, you're full of sh!t. You claim to remember that some posters defended the Wayzata coach but wanted Juwan Howard fired. I asked who (pretty logical question) and you answered that you can't remember. Did you remember the people when you posted? LOL. Or did you take note, post, and then immediately forget the people you were referencing? You. . . referenced. . . them.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
WTF are you talking about? You and I agree on both accounts. I did NOT choose to say poor Wayzata coach. I said he should be fired. You have your people mixed up. All of your weird ranting about telepathy and El Amin's state of mind. . . I have no idea what you're talking about. I gave you the consistency you wanted, I think BOTH the Wayzata coach and Howard should be fired (regardless of if El Amin talked trash or Gard grabbed Howard's arm). I think they should BOTH be fired.

I also have no idea anything about what you have posted before this thread. If we interacted in the El Amin thread, I don't remember it. I simply asked you a question if you were in the same boat as me and you are. Cool. I was not implying you weren't.

As far as the basic premise of your post, you're full of sh!t. You claim to remember that some posters defended the Wayzata coach but wanted Juwan Howard fired. I asked who (pretty logical question) and you answered that you can't remember. Did you remember the people when you posted? LOL. Or did you take note, post, and then immediately forget the people you were referencing? You. . . referenced. . . them.
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More or less you did say poor Wayzata coach, and that you think Juwan should be fired. So yeah we are off a little bit. I don't care if Wayzata guy or Juwan gets dragged on the internet, both were stupid. I don't think Juwan should be fired however.

Telepathy comment was about you saying the Juwan don't touch me comment was fake, and that you said El Amin was yelling at a coach. Not sure where you concluded both. You were the main poster I was referencing dude. I said "you are welcome to dig back through the thread," which was me being sarcastic. Not sure how that is hard to pick up. Where did I say I can't remember? I didn't say that and also the memory comment, but yes I am full of it.

I mean if you say so and so is bad and then go on to discuss the person who *maybe* instigated, and make comments about them a few times, it is a confusing look.
 

alchemy2u said:
Did you even listen to the WKOW video? Howard is walking by, not even looking at Gard and says “I will remember this shit”…. Gard then grabs his arm and stops Howard from walking by. Howard raises his hands with the palms facing outward towards Gard, in a “whoa” type gesture and then Gard puts his hands on Howards chest and starts trying to lecture Howard. Howard then grabs a fistful of Gard shirt and says “don’t F‘ing touch me”. Gard then keeps yelling and grabbing at Howard.

Gard instigated the aggressive contact. Also, several assistants from UW are also yelling at Howard and then Krabbenhoff comes pushing in and yelling something that causes the guy with the B1G logo on his shirt to turn and push Krabbenhoff back.

Howard should never have slapped that guy, but Wisconsin is showing their true character just as they did when they support the cheap shots of their players. If they had any class, they would suspend that idiot that gave the gesture to the Michigan bench after the game.
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Quick! Alert the Big Ten offices! It may not be too late!
 

MinnGopher said:
More or less you did say poor Wayzata coach, and that you think Juwan should be fired. So yeah we are off a little bit. I don't care if Wayzata guy or Juwan gets dragged on the internet, both were stupid. I don't think Juwan should be fired however.

Telepathy comment was about you saying the Juwan don't touch me comment was fake, and that you said El Amin was yelling at a coach. Not sure where you concluded both. You were the main poster I was referencing dude. I said "you are welcome to dig back through the thread," which was me being sarcastic. Not sure how that is hard to pick up. Where did I say I can't remember? I didn't say that and also the memory comment, but yes I am full of it.

I mean if you say so and so is bad and then go on to discuss the person who *maybe* instigated, and make comments about them a few times, it is a confusing look.
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I said numerous times on that thread that the Wayzata coach should be fired and never work with kids again. So I was much harsher on the Wayzata coach than you were.

I'm not "both sidesing" anything. The world is full of nuance. I think a rationale person can conclude that Gard acted incorrectly AND Howard should be canned. I think a rationale person can conclude that El Amin acted incorrectly AND the Wayzata coach should be fired. The world is full of nuance and because one person completely crossed a line doesn't make the other person innocent. It's called nuance.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I said numerous times on that thread that the Wayzata coach should be fired and never work with kids again. So I was much harsher on the Wayzata coach than you were.

I'm not "both sidesing" anything. The world is full of nuance. I think a rationale person can conclude that Gard acted incorrectly AND Howard should be canned. I think a rationale person can conclude that El Amin acted incorrectly AND the Wayzata coach should be fired. The world is full of nuance and because one person completely crossed a line doesn't make the other person innocent. It's called nuance.
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I agree and tough to flesh out the nuance on a message board. Did you actually not know I was referencing you in the original post or were you being sarcastic?
 


2nd Degree Gopher said:
This statement is a big FU to Kevin Warren and the conference. I don't care about the athletic department paying the fine for him, Gard makes enough that he wouldn't notice if his check was $10,000 light anyway, but making a point of publicly challenging the discipline is wrong in my view. I understand why they did it with a new AD standing up for a coach some of the players haven't liked, but I have a hard time believing it would have been handled the same way if Jim Delany was still the commissioner and Alvarez was the AD.
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Yep, and it's going to come back to bite 'em. Warren should have hit 'em with more. Next time (and with the BADgers there will be a next time) I'm predicting that Warren takes a better shot than just a slap.
 


46Gophers said:
You do realize that had Juwan not thrown the slap/punch there would likely have been no suspensions of players or coaches and both teams likely would have left with MI having a sour taste in their mouths like happens for a lot of teams that are not happy with a game they lost. I understand the hatred for WI and Gard but let's not fool ourselves into thinking his antics were the major reason that led to the punches thrown by players and subsequent suspensions. Juwan's slap/punch is what ignited a volatile situation. Gard, Krabbenhoff, and Howard all made it volatile with their actions and behavior.
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Yeah.
I would’ve given Gard a game. But I get why they didn’t. Not that I have a high opinion of Michigan but not firing him makes me dislike them even more. He is supposed to be a leader and he is like a little child throwing a fit…and it is now a repeated behavior
 




46Gophers said:
You do realize that had Juwan not thrown the slap/punch there would likely have been no suspensions of players or coaches and both teams likely would have left with MI having a sour taste in their mouths like happens for a lot of teams that are not happy with a game they lost. I understand the hatred for WI and Gard but let's not fool ourselves into thinking his antics were the major reason that led to the punches thrown by players and subsequent suspensions. Juwan's slap/punch is what ignited a volatile situation. Gard, Krabbenhoff, and Howard all made it volatile with their actions and behavior.
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You do understand that i was responding to someone who said that Howard started the whole thing by first swearing at Gurd and grabing Gurd. I was just clarifying the facts of the situation where Gurd started the physical contact.

At first is was a typo, but I now like calling him Gurd.
 

alchemy2u said:
You do understand that i was responding to someone who said that Howard started the whole thing by first swearing at Gurd and grabing Gurd. I was just clarifying the facts of the situation where Gurd started the physical contact.

At first is was a typo, but I now like calling him Gurd.
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As in "regurditate"? I like it.
 


alchemy2u said:
You do understand that i was responding to someone who said that Howard started the whole thing by first swearing at Gurd and grabing Gurd. I was just clarifying the facts of the situation where Gurd started the physical contact.

At first is was a typo, but I now like calling him Gurd.
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Juwan's barking at Gurd (I like the name) more than likely led to Gurd's contact but neither set off the melee and the subsequent suspensions. That lands on Juwan. I just think it's funny on how the hatred for Gurd has everyone calling for his head over this. But I also agree that Gurd is a turd.
 






Jon Krawczynski on his most recent talk north podcast talked about the Howard/Gard incident and definitely was open about his lack of respect for Gard, the way he treats his players, and the way the Wisconsin program is run in general. Was pretty vague and I would love to hear more!
 


alchemy2u said:
You do understand that i was responding to someone who said that Howard started the whole thing by first swearing at Gurd and grabing Gurd. I was just clarifying the facts of the situation where Gurd started the physical contact.
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You should re-read my posts. I basically said exactly what you said. Howard swore, Gard grabbed Howard, Howard grabbed Gard, they yelled at each other.

What "initiated" it was Howard being pissed off about something he had no business being pissed off about. Absolutely stupid to be mad about that timeout. Take your medicine and go to the locker room. But Howard couldn't muster the self-control to simply stay quiet and take his beating like a man. He had to stare down the Badger bench, then make a comment with cursing on the hand shake line. Gard then tried to grab him and explain, then Krabbenhoft comes in and all hell broke loose.

The high road was not taken by either guy, but if Howard acts like a normal coach at the end of a game, nothing happens, period.
 
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GopherChaos said:
Jon Krawczynski on his most recent talk north podcast talked about the Howard/Gard incident and definitely was open about his lack of respect for Gard, the way he treats his players, and the way the Wisconsin program is run in general. Was pretty vague and I would love to hear more!
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I'm sure BADGER will be by to put to rest anything not glowing all things Gard and WI BB.
 

tjgopher said:
You should re-read my posts. I basically said exactly what you said. Howard swore, Gard grabbed Howard, Howard grabbed Gard, they yelled at each other.

What "initiated" it was Howard being pissed off about something he had no business being pissed off about. Absolutely stupid to be mad about that timeout. Take your medicine and go to the locker room. But Howard couldn't muster the self-control to simply stay quiet and take his beating like a man. He had to stare down the Badger bench, then make a comment with cursing on the hand shake line. Gard then tried to grab him and explain, then Krabbenhoft comes in and all hell broke loose.

The high road was not taken by either guy, but if Howard acts like a normal coach at the end of a game, nothing happens, period.
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I'm sympathetic to your take, but if I would add that if Gard acted like a normal coach and understood WHY Howard was pissed off, and just slipped past him in line, it would not have escalated, either. Whether Howard's being po'd is "justified" or not is a topic for debate. It's the winners job to get out of the way and allow the loser to stew as long as there isn't risk for an altercation. My take on the video is that there was no risk of altercation beyond a few nasty words until Gard tried to "explain himself." Gard was an idiot to think he could resolve the issue in the heat of the moment. He needed to get out of the way, and should have been suspended for a game as well. If anyone thinks I am justifying Howard's behavior, I'm not. The punishment fit the crime for Howard. It didn't for Gard.
 

BarnBurner said:
I'm sure BADGER will be by to put to rest anything not glowing all things Gard and WI BB.
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Here I am. I didn't know who that guy was so I checked it out. Dude is entitled to his opinion. I doubt anyone in Madison cares what he thinks. Not everyone is going to like everyone.

I'm not going to sit here and say Wisconsin/Gard are perfect. Never have, never will. I'm only commenting on this particular incident, and it takes a tremendous amount of bias to find a lot of fault with Gard here, that's all I'm saying. The Big Ten certainly didn't find much of anything, and rightfully so. This was a Howard problem. With a small dash of Krabbenhoft, emphasis on small.
 


I’ve seen/heard the footage from the camera on the court when you can really hear Juwan repeatedly saying “don’t f’in touch me” but it always cuts off before Krab gets involved. Does anyone know what Krab said to get slapped? BTW—-heard nothing good about him as a person from him recruiting over in my parts. Arrogant jerk.
 

Ben needs to hire an enforcer assistant coach. A fall guy who will drop the gloves for him.
😯😎
 



Badgerman said:
Here I am. I didn't know who that guy was so I checked it out. Dude is entitled to his opinion. I doubt anyone in Madison cares what he thinks. Not everyone is going to like everyone.

I'm not going to sit here and say Wisconsin/Gard are perfect. Never have, never will. I'm only commenting on this particular incident, and it takes a tremendous amount of bias to find a lot of fault with Gard here, that's all I'm saying. The Big Ten certainly didn't find much of anything, and rightfully so. This was a Howard problem. With a small dash of Krabbenhoft, emphasis on small.
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It's a significant concession for you to admit that Wisconsin and Gard never have been and never will be perfect. It gives the rest of your post a high degree of credibility.

The conflict doesn't escalate if Gard doesn't physically impede Howard's progress and Krabbenhoft doesn't push his way into the scrum. If Howard got five games, Krab deserved two games for his part and Gard deserved three games for his role as an instigator and for having an undisciplined coaching staff, which is ultimately his responsibility.
 
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jamiche said:
It's a significant concession for you to admit that Wisconsin and Gard never have been and never will be perfect. It gives the rest of your post a high degree of credibility.

The conflict doesn't escalate if Gard doesn't physically impede Howard's progress and Krabbenhoft doesn't push his way into the scrum. If Howard got five games, Krab deserved two games for his part and Gard deserved three games for his role as an instigator and for having an undisciplined coaching staff, which is ultimately his responsibility.
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Imagine being dumb enough to think a coach coming through the line, pulling down his mask and saying he'll remember that shit to the other coach wasn't the instigator. Impressive mind gymnastics throughout this entire thread. Hate Wisconsin all you want, but use common sense. Krabbenhoft getting 2 games for being hit? Genius.
 

Holy Man said:
I'm sympathetic to your take, but if I would add that if Gard acted like a normal coach and understood WHY Howard was pissed off, and just slipped past him in line, it would not have escalated, either. Whether Howard's being po'd is "justified" or not is a topic for debate. It's the winners job to get out of the way and allow the loser to stew as long as there isn't risk for an altercation. My take on the video is that there was no risk of altercation beyond a few nasty words until Gard tried to "explain himself." Gard was an idiot to think he could resolve the issue in the heat of the moment. He needed to get out of the way, and should have been suspended for a game as well. If anyone thinks I am justifying Howard's behavior, I'm not. The punishment fit the crime for Howard. It didn't for Gard.
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I would have been totally fine with Gard and Krabbenhoff getting 1-2 game suspensions. I certainly don't think they were guilt free. But, if the question is, who "instigated" this thing, it was totally a result of Juwan Howard being irrationally pissed off about something he has no business being pissed off about. Be a man, take your lumps, and lose with dignity. If he does that, he is coaching his team today. He has to learn that, as hard as it is.

That said, I disagree that Gard should have expected the reaction that he got. Coaches are always grabbing and slapping each other during the handshake line, including during times of explaining things, and how many times have punches been thrown? Never. In addition, Gard could have thought he might be able to explain himself as his previous encounters with Howard seemed like they respected each other enough to handle losing and timeouts.



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