Joey King Thread - Why does he play over Buggs?

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It's Joey King. And it ain't even close.
 

Why does Joey King play over Charles Buggs?

King should ideally be getting 10 minutes a game as a spot up shooter. If this team is going to go anywhere this season we need to get something reliable out of the PF position and right now that is Charles Buggs. Give Buggs the start and more importantly the clutch minutes at the end of the game. I can't take any more of King's turnovers and boneheaded plays.

Discuss.
 

Joey King

Get this kid off this team. More importantly, how does Pitino not have any other options to sub in? Disgusting display.
 

He does have other options. Buggs may not be bright, but there's no way he's worse than King. At least Buggs can give you SOMETHING. I'd rather see Diedhou out there, and I don't care if he literally can't dribble.
 

Sigh. Joey King did not lose this game. Wasn't even close to the reason for losing this game.
 


MadtownGopher said:
King should ideally be getting 10 minutes a game as a spot up shooter. If this team is going to go anywhere this season we need to get something reliable out of the PF position and right now that is Charles Buggs. Give Buggs the start and more importantly the clutch minutes at the end of the game. I can't take any more of King's turnovers and boneheaded plays.

Discuss.
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You're absolutely correct. I have no idea why King plays. It's not because he plays smarter, or harder. He doesn't rebound more. He doesn't play better defense. I mean, seriously, what is it?
 

MadtownGopher said:
King should ideally be getting 10 minutes a game as a spot up shooter. If this team is going to go anywhere this season we need to get something reliable out of the PF position and right now that is Charles Buggs. Give Buggs the start and more importantly the clutch minutes at the end of the game. I can't take any more of King's turnovers and boneheaded plays.

Discuss.
Click to expand...

I hope buggs gets the minutes you all request... I really do... I cannot wait to hear what you have to say about him when he does.
 

My mind was EXPLODING that entire second half. I kept seeing disgusting play by King, possession after possession.

BUT...

What got me is that I kept thinking after each of those displays - "Pitino will take him out for sure now." Yet, he never did.
 

Winasota Gopher said:
Sigh. Joey King did not lose this game. Wasn't even close to the reason for losing this game.
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Obviously Mo's weak hands and Dre's boneheadedness sure helped. But can you think of one player more representative of this team's failings? I certainly can't.
 



Winasota Gopher said:
I hope buggs gets the minutes you all request... I really do... I cannot wait to hear what you have to say about him when he does. You're all a bunch of hyenas.
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At least Buggs fits Pitino's system. He can trap and put pressure on his man. King can't stop anyone, can't rebound, and turns the ball over as soon as it becomes crunch time. I'll take the ups and downs with Buggs because there are no ups with King.
 

MadtownGopher said:
At least Buggs fits Pitino's system. He can trap and put pressure on his man. King can't stop anyone, can't rebound, and turns the ball over as soon as it becomes crunch time. I'll take the ups and downs with Buggs because there are no ups with King.
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That's completely cherry picking poor performances of King. King has contributed. There have been ups.

Listen, I don't think King is a viable 20+ minute player in the big 10... But I don't think Buggs would be anywhere close to as reliable as King is, that's saying a lot. I cannot prove it because coach agrees with me apparently.
 

Winasota Gopher said:
I hope buggs gets the minutes you all request... I really do... I cannot wait to hear what you have to say about him when he does.
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You and a few others keep saying this. So let's put it in the line. Prove it. There is nothing King does that Buggs can't do. Neither one is the answer. But I want to see someone else okay. You can't do worse than 0-4. Tell me what happens when Buggs plays more minutes. Please. What catastrophe will take place. I would play them 20 each. Big deal.
 

MadtownGopher said:
King should ideally be getting 10 minutes a game as a spot up shooter. If this team is going to go anywhere this season we need to get something reliable out of the PF position and right now that is Charles Buggs. Give Buggs the start and more importantly the clutch minutes at the end of the game. I can't take any more of King's turnovers and boneheaded plays.

Discuss.
Click to expand...
Correct. I assume the coach plays the guys he gives the best chance to win.
If king is a 18+ minute per game guy I don't expect much out of the team.

If there is a chance buggs can give you some defense and rebounding you have to play him. I don't think I've watched enough to know.
 



Can we get to the bigger concern here? That is:

How did Pitino not make any adjustments that entire timespan? How does he continue to throw away time outs and mismanage the game? Don't get me wrong - I'm one of the biggest promoters and fans of Pitino, but how can any rational mind not be concerned by this?

Simply, at least today, Pitino was outcoached.
 

WilliamsArenaGuy said:
You and a few others keep saying this. So let's put it in the line. Prove it. There is nothing does that Buggs can't do. Neither one is the answer. But I want to see someone else okay. You can't do worse than 0-4. Tell me what happens when Buggs plays more minutes. Please. What catastrophe will take place. I would play them 20 each. Big deal.
Click to expand...

Miss every single defensive rotation he is supposed to make? That's what Buggs is awful at. Knowing how to rotate on D. Better man to man defender than King, but he has no clue where to be outside of that.
 

WilliamsArenaGuy said:
You and a few others keep saying this. So let's put it in the line. Prove it. There is nothing does that Buggs can't do. Neither one is the answer. But I want to see someone else okay. You can't do worse than 0-4.

Tell me what happens when Buggs plays more minutes. Please. What catastrophe will take place. I would play them 20 each. Big deal.
Click to expand...

If Buggs were playing more we might be 0-4. Oh wait- we are 0-4. At this point it depends what we want going forward. Do we want to play "safe" and go with a low ceiling guy who has a nice shot fake like Joey, or good effort Elliot who really has no talent, or do we want to go with guys that have some upside? For me- I want to see more of Konate, Buggs, and Gaston. The future should start now.
 

LittleBrownJug said:
Can we get to the bigger concern here? That is:

How did Pitino not make any adjustments that entire timespan? How does he continue to throw away time outs and mismanage the game? Don't get me wrong - I'm one of the biggest promoters and fans of Pitino, but how can any rational mind not be concerned by this?

Simply, at least today, Pitino was outcoached.
Click to expand...

I seriously thought he made some good moves. Against a 1-3-1 it comes down to making wide open shots. We missed 3 or 4 wide open looks from the corners and 2 or 3 wide open dunks from the block that were either miss handled or got slapped away. Make an easy bucket and knock down the open shot and they get out of the 1-3-1. Miss them, and you go 7 minutes without a bucket. Only so much he can do.

The time outs were troubling, and deandres complete me,town today hurt bad against the 1-3-1. A guy like him can dismantle zones like that rather easily with dribble drive and a dump off to a dunk.
 

Winasota Gopher said:
That's completely cherry picking poor performances of King. King has contributed. There have been ups.

Listen, I don't think King is a viable 20+ minute player in the big 10... But I don't think Buggs would be anywhere close to as reliable as King is, that's saying a lot. I cannot prove it because coach agrees with me apparently.
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I think most people would at least like to give it a try. At this point, why not? Let Buggs play 25 minutes while King 15. It's okay to change things up and try something new.
 

King brings nothing to the team except a few occasional 3s, and 95% of the team's shot fakes. I'd take my chances on Buggs learning on the job instead of King.
 

GophersInIowa said:
I think most people would at least like to give it a try. At this point, why not? Let Buggs play 25 minutes while King 15. It's okay to change things up and try something new.
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Maybe Buggs will get better if he plays consistent minutes... King is what he is.
 

Winasota Gopher said:
I seriously thought he made some good moves. Against a 1-3-1 it comes down to making wide open shots. We missed 3 or 4 wide open looks from the corners and 2 or 3 wide open dunks from the block that were either miss handled or got slapped away. Make an easy bucket and knock down the open shot and they get out of the 1-3-1. Miss them, and you go 7 minutes without a bucket. Only so much he can do.

The time outs were troubling, and deandres complete me,town today hurt bad against the 1-3-1. A guy like him can dismantle zones like that rather easily with dribble drive and a dump off to a dunk.
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Thank you for the reply. I will have to go back and painstakingly watch some of that. I could have missed a few adjustments as I was just amazed some other things were not being altered (cue the King remarks).

I have seen this type of management from Pitino in several games, specifically referring to the TO management. I seem to remember Rick even hounding him on it during an interview.
 

Interesting comments by Ryan James relating to Joey's idiotic play late in the game. He is actually supporting King... Saying he played great D and LeVert traveled but refs made bad call.. This might be the first time I disagree with Ryan James
 

PTalberg said:
Interesting comments by Ryan James relating to Joey's idiotic play late in the game. He is actually supporting King... Saying he played great D and LeVert traveled but refs made bad call.. This might be the first time I disagree with Ryan James
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He's half right. Joey played great d there, until he left his feet. I dono if levert traveled or not, but it's irrelevant, cannot leave feet there.
 

It was very frustrating watching pitino coach today. Does he not see how bad king was playing
I have seen faster reaction times on snails(refering to king). What is pitino's fascination with king? I am not saying buggs is the answer, but I have watched Buggs play when he is in and aside from some defensive laps he does not look as awful as king, mind you that it is a small sample size on watching Buggs play
For some reason there is a short leash when buggs makes one mistake and a big leash for king as he is allowed to make several mistakes. Does pitino just not like buggs? Pitino got out coached today by a long shot. Not saying he will not learn from his mistakes but these mistakes he made were so obvious......sorry I am just really frustrated. I do not have the answers either just possible solutions.
 

Winasota Gopher said:
Sigh. Joey King did not lose this game. Wasn't even close to the reason for losing this game.
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Buggs had twice the game King had today, and it wasn't even close. It's time for Buggs to be getting more of Joey's minutes by a significant margin. Something has to change, and this one is too obvious.
 

And btw, I've watched Buggs' every move. He's the same caliber defender Joey is except more able to stay in front of his guy, better passer, better shooter as far as I'm concerned, and a better rebounder. Doesn't crap his pants with the ball in his hands either. It's time for a change. Have to see if its part the answer, which I think it is.
 

bga1 said:
For me- I want to see more of Konate, Buggs, and Gaston. The future should start now.
Click to expand...

Pretty rare for a coach to risk losing more games to give kids experience -- for a future payoff? Pitino wouldn't be risking his job this year (like some coaches) but he risks piling up loses that will attach a stink to his program that is hard to get rid of. Doesn't seem like next year's recruiting is going to put MN in the top 25 so you better win every game you can. Developing players is done in practice. Losing kills recruiting and only leads to more losing.
 

GameDay said:
Buggs had twice the game King had today, and it wasn't even close. It's time for Buggs to be getting more of Joey's minutes by a significant margin. Something has to change, and this one is too obvious.
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What did King do wrong? I don't think he was the reason we lost today. He had a bone head pass or two that I remember. I must have missed something. He certainly didn't do much at all, which is an obvious problem, but I'm perplexed as to why Gopherhole is picking Joey as the scape goat today.
 

GameDay said:
And btw, I've watched Buggs' every move. He's the same caliber defender Joey is except more able to stay in front of his guy, better passer, better shooter as far as I'm concerned, and a better rebounder. Doesn't crap his pants with the ball in his hands either. It's time for a change. Have to see if its part the answer, which I think it is.
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We are watching different people I guess. It might be close in these categories, but buggs is not significantly better than Joey in anything.
 

Winasota Gopher said:
What did King do wrong? I don't think he was the reason we lost today. He had a bone head pass or two that I remember. I must have missed something. He certainly didn't do much at all, which is an obvious problem, but I'm perplexed as to why Gopherhole is picking Joey as the scape goat today.
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3 bad passes, getting beat off the dribble a few times, that foul at the end, alligator armed wide open threes (that Buggs would've made), absent on the boards as always. He is outmatched at the big ten level. It's okay that we have differences in opinion, but I see him compared to Buggs ALOT different than you. At this point I do think its necessary to change the PT allotment at PF and see if it works. King is a 7th man IMO. Different takes, that's all.
 

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