Jackson: Big-time colleges care more about money and winning than black athletes getting degrees

[STPGopher]

Elephants and ropes?

Elephants and Ropes

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Alex, what is scapegoat? A powerful lever, historically.

 

[MplsGopher]

Alex, what is scapegoat? A powerful lever, historically.

What is gaslighting?

 

[Veritas]

There is plenty of anecdotal evidence to support this.

Off the top of my head I remember listening to a program that was talking about the odd and disappointing failure of inner-city urban, gifted high school students who were awarded full rides to the very tip-top liberal arts schools in the NE.

The kids would show up and .... fail. Spectacularly. They'd stop going to class.

The TL;DR summary is basically: far, far too much fish out of water, to survive. It's mostly a bunch of rich, white kids at the school. They couldn't function socially, period. They didn't know how to ask for help. They didn't know help existed. And without that, they froze up academically and dropped out.

Part of what a university degree infers is that those people with a degree did it, whatever it is. When an employer goes to hire a person they want to hire people who can "do it" and will do it, absolutely not people who will not do "it" for the employer. "Sorry boss, I just did not know how to do it and did not know who to ask or what to do." Just do it.

PS Walt Williams is an African American syndicated journalist who does an excellent job of pointing out that grade inflation is so bad in many Black high schools in American cities that top students can get excellent marks without being able to pass basic math and science tests.

 

[mjfelton15]

OK. But, I thought you had just said "I think society was best when people were expected to pull themselves up by their bootstraps." I thought that was implying that you think no aid should ever be given to any person, and they should only be able to achieve based on whatever resources they can harvest of their own accord.

Anyway ...


OK, well this is at least somewhere along the lines of reasonable.

I agree that helpers should not have to hunt for people who need help. I don't think that is a thing ...

There’s a difference between what I think is best for society, and what actually exists. There are many forms of aid out there for just about anyone that’s been through just about anything. Do I agree with a number of these forms of support? I might not. I might see many of them to be unnecessary, but they do exist. I do think most people should be able to achieve whatever they want in life if they want it bad enough. There've been some pretty insane stories throughout American history of people doing incredible things when they started out with nothing. It appears that our ancestors survived and reproduced just fine without all the safety nets of modern America. They just did what they had to, because every day they were faced with “it’s either I survive today, or I don’t”.

 

[oleboy41]

Don’t come in here with “systemic racism”. You can’t just blame systemic racism. Name the specific system that is racist. The same opportunities are provided to black students, if they weren’t it would be illegal. Anti-discrimination laws exist, and have existed, for quite some time. The opportunities are provided, black students just don’t take advantage of them the same way that white students do, generally speaking. Until you fix the black household, the number of opportunities you provide to black students won’t make much difference. Is it systemic racism that is to blame for why black fathers STATISTICALLY don’t stick around for their own kids? Because that statistically has a great deal of influence in things like graduation rates, poverty rates, homelessness rates, crime rates, and overall happiness of black kids. Or are you going to blame the racist prison system and/or racist law enforcement for there being a disproportionate number of black men in jail to white men. Because it couldn’t possibly be that black men are committing a disproportionate amount of jail/prison worthy crime, that’d be preposterous right? The entire black population makes up 14% of the total US population. of that 14%, black men make up about 6%-8% of the total US population, but commit over 50% of violent crime. To me that screams cultural issue, but I’m probably just racist too.

I stopped reading after your first sentence but I'm sure the rest is just as stupid. peace

 

[oleboy41]

No teacher can, or ever has, taught a person to be smarter than what that particular individual was born to be. Teachers teach skills and content, not core smarts. If a particular person is smart as a door post teachers can not "turn on a light switch". Teachers work with what is presented to them, not to pour in twinkly lights of wisdom.

That has literally nothing to do with what I said. And following your logic you're essentially stating that the black players simply aren't smart enough to graduate college, implying that...black people aren't as smart as white people? Got a link to your youtube channel on phreneology? Idiot

 

[oleboy41]

Don’t come in here with “systemic racism”. You can’t just blame systemic racism. Name the specific system that is racist. The same opportunities are provided to black students, if they weren’t it would be illegal. Anti-discrimination laws exist, and have existed, for quite some time. The opportunities are provided, black students just don’t take advantage of them the same way that white students do, generally speaking. Until you fix the black household, the number of opportunities you provide to black students won’t make much difference. Is it systemic racism that is to blame for why black fathers STATISTICALLY don’t stick around for their own kids? Because that statistically has a great deal of influence in things like graduation rates, poverty rates, homelessness rates, crime rates, and overall happiness of black kids. Or are you going to blame the racist prison system and/or racist law enforcement for there being a disproportionate number of black men in jail to white men. Because it couldn’t possibly be that black men are committing a disproportionate amount of jail/prison worthy crime, that’d be preposterous right? The entire black population makes up 14% of the total US population. of that 14%, black men make up about 6%-8% of the total US population, but commit over 50% of violent crime. To me that screams cultural issue, but I’m probably just racist too.

Because I was curious I did read the rest of this. And yea, you're either a knowing racist or very ignorant. You clearly think you know more about this than you do since you stop at the facts that are convenient for you. Yes, systemic racism is why black fathers are more absent than white ones. Yes, systemic racism is why the black family has been in flux since literally the beginning of black presence in America. Yes, systemic racism is why black men make up so much of the prison system. Things like the fact that white people do more drugs statistically but are far less likely to be in jail for drug possession. The info is out there but yea, you're probably a racist lol. It's ok. I'm black so I'm used to dealing with your kind, the type that thinks black people are inferior but won't admit it to themselves so you ask stupid questions like 'Because it couldn’t possibly be that black men are committing a disproportionate amount of jail/prison worthy crime, that’d be preposterous right?' but then don't actually put the energy into finding out the answers to those questions which are actually readily available. So yea, you're racist either because you believe the nonsense or because you don't actually care enough to learn the truth and are good with spouting racist ideologies. And don't bother responding. I'm in the habit of putting racists on my ignore list lol

 

[MennoSota]

per Jackson:

The tragic stereotype that the only thing a black man can be is an athlete — and a dumb one at that — tortures the nation’s psyche, perpetuated by the very institution charged with enlightenment, the American university.

In my 24th annual Graduation Gap Bowl, the story expands well beyond the graduation rates of African American athletes and the incessant racial disparities within teams where the rates for black players usually lag well behind those of white players.

What’s now equally unavoidable is this: no matter what the graduation rates, the only smart black men allowed on campus are athletes.

To be sure, the disparities remain in some cases ridiculous. Top-ranked Louisiana State went into the college football national championship game versus Clemson with a NCAA Graduation Success Rate of 59% for its African American football players, compared with 92% for its white football players. Semifinalist Ohio State had a 56% graduation rate for African American players and 83% for white players.

Clemson, which lost the title game to LSU, had the highest African American graduation rate among the four teams of 74%, but that still paled to the 100% for white players. Semifinalist Oklahoma had similar disparities, graduating only 68% of African American players while graduating 92% of white players.

The average racial disparity of 27.5 percentage points from the top teams is a reminder that no matter how much the overall graduation rates have improved over the years, the top-tier teams still turn a blind eye to their acrid academic atmosphere. It should be unacceptable that LSU and Ohio State graduate barely more than half of their black players while graduating most of their white football players.

Big-time colleges care more about money and winning than black athletes getting degrees

The tragic stereotype that the only thing a black man can be is an athlete — and a dumb one at that — tortures the nation’s psyche, perpetuated by the very inst…

theundefeated.com

Go Gophers!!

The use of percentages is likely misleading.
Odds are that black athletes may leave early at these schools because they are drafted or leave for a professional career before they graduate. It's a simple fact of life that less white athletes get into the NFL or NBA than black athletes.
Second, the reality is that almost any student coming from a lifestyle of poverty will struggle in college. Without a family that emphasizes education and disciplined academic exercise, a child will tend to be undisciplined in their academic education. Not many people find algebra, trig and geometry to be as fun as shooting a basketball at the park. Many families in poverty may not discipline their children to do well in school.
Therefore, I think this disparity is not about colleges caring more about winning than about black athletes getting a degree. I think the disparity is about the academic starting point of each individual as well as the opportunities for other options that elite athletes receive.
Spouting percentages can therefore be skewed and not represent actual facts.

 

[Deleted_User]

There is plenty of anecdotal evidence to support this.

Off the top of my head I remember listening to a program that was talking about the odd and disappointing failure of inner-city urban, gifted high school students who were awarded full rides to the very tip-top liberal arts schools in the NE.

The kids would show up and .... fail. Spectacularly. They'd stop going to class.

The TL;DR summary is basically: far, far too much fish out of water, to survive. It's mostly a bunch of rich, white kids at the school. They couldn't function socially, period. They didn't know how to ask for help. They didn't know help existed. And without that, they froze up academically and dropped out.

That is another form of white privilege. If we want more black college students to succeed, we need more black students accepted into college. Plus, we need to accept the fact that black families, in general, do not have the same level of financial assets for the extras of college life that even the average white kid does. It isn't even close.

 

[Veritas]

There is plenty of anecdotal evidence to support this.

Off the top of my head I remember listening to a program that was talking about the odd and disappointing failure of inner-city urban, gifted high school students who were awarded full rides to the very tip-top liberal arts schools in the NE.

The kids would show up and .... fail. Spectacularly. They'd stop going to class.

The TL;DR summary is basically: far, far too much fish out of water, to survive. It's mostly a bunch of rich, white kids at the school. They couldn't function socially, period. They didn't know how to ask for help. They didn't know help existed. And without that, they froze up academically and dropped out.

Part of what a university degree infers is that those people with a degree did it, whatever it is. When an employer goes to hire a person they want to hire people who can "do it" and will do it, absolutely not people who will not do "it" for the employer. "Sorry boss, I just did not know how to do it and did not know who to ask or what to do." Just do it.

PS Walt Williams is a African American syndicated journalist who does an excellent job of pointing out that grade inflation is so bad in many Black high schools in American cities that top students can get excellent marks with being able to pass basic math and science tests.

Because I was curious I did read the rest of this. And yea, you're either a knowing racist or very ignorant. You clearly think you know more about this than you do since you stop at the facts that are convenient for you. Yes, systemic racism is why black fathers are more absent than white ones. Yes, systemic racism is why the black family has been in flux since literally the beginning of black presence in America. Yes, systemic racism is why black men make up so much of the prison system. Things like the fact that white people do more drugs statistically but are far less likely to be in jail for drug possession. The info is out there but yea, you're probably a racist lol. It's ok. I'm black so I'm used to dealing with your kind, the type that thinks black people are inferior but won't admit it to themselves so you ask stupid questions like 'Because it couldn’t possibly be that black men are committing a disproportionate amount of jail/prison worthy crime, that’d be preposterous right?' but then don't actually put the energy into finding out the answers to those questions which are actually readily available. So yea, you're racist either because you believe the nonsense or because you don't actually care enough to learn the truth and are good with spouting racist ideologies. And don't bother responding. I'm in the habit of putting racists on my ignore list lol

Please add me to your ignore list as well. I deal with reality, not views or people like you.

 

[Veritas]

That is another form of white privilege. If we want more black college students to succeed, we need more black students accepted into college. Plus, we need to accept the fact that black families, in general, do not have the same level of financial assets for the extras of college life that even the average white kid does. It isn't even close.

So? My parents did not give me one penny to go to university and I have two university degrees. Nothing is stopping more black high school students from applying to university, just as I did and millions of others; white, black, red, yellow, Jewish, Hindu, male, female, etc.

 

[oleboy41]

Part of what a university degree infers is that those people with a degree did it, whatever it is. When an employer goes to hire a person they want to hire people who can "do it" and will do it, absolutely not people who will not do "it" for the employer. "Sorry boss, I just did not know how to do it and did not know who to ask or what to do." Just do it.

PS Walt Williams is a African American syndicated journalist who does an excellent job of pointing out that grade inflation is so bad in many Black high schools in American cities that top students can get excellent marks with being able to pass basic math and science tests.


Please add me to your ignore list as well. I deal with reality, not views or people like you.

black people? And honestly I don't know you and haven't read anything you've said other than when you quoted me but hey, thanks for outing yourself as a racist idiot too and saving me the trouble

 

[oleboy41]

Funny how some white folks (not most of yall, just a few) get all in their feelings when talking to an actual informed and educated black person about race, lol.

 

[Deleted_User]

So? My parents did not give me one penny to go to university and I have two university degrees. Nothing is stopping more black high school students from applying to university, just as I did and millions of others; white, black, red, yellow, Jewish, Hindu, male, female, etc.

What did you say your age is again?

African Americans were denied student housing well into the 1950s. Women were granted student housing before any blacks. Just what year did the U allow black men into student dorms. Enlighten me.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

What is gaslighting?

Read some of Oleboy’s post or the original article and tell me who’s gaslighting. I’ll back off if someone can give me a rational explanation of what concrete steps can be take to rid our society of privilege, prejudice. We never get that far, do we?

Does speaking to either sound like a calm or rational discourse waiting to happen?

On the imprisonment issue above, I’m not sure if Oleboy is advocating for mandatory sentences without context, or whether he's arguing to jail more people of all races? Or is he saying the inmates are all innocent (I have long argued all the wasted energy put into activism would be better spent funding public and private defenders before the plea deals get going, etc, etc....whole other thread on that)? I’d ask, but I’m afraid I’ll probably be called some not very nice things.

 

[Veritas]

What did you say your age is again?

African Americans were denied student housing well into the 1950s. Women were granted student housing before any blacks. Just what year did the U allow black men into student dorms. Enlighten me.

I went to university in the later part of the 1960's, there were African Americans in my dorm. Men were not allowed on the female side, women were not allowed on the male side.

 

[Veritas]

Read some of Oleboy’s post or the original article and tell me who’s gaslighting. I’ll back off if someone can give me a rational explanation of what concrete steps can be take to rid our society of privilege, prejudice. We never get that far, do we?

Does speaking to either sound like a calm or rational discourse waiting to happen?

On the imprisonment issue above, I’m not sure if Oleboy is advocating for mandatory sentences without context, or whether he's arguing to jail more people of all races? Or is he saying the inmates are all innocent (I have long argued all the wasted energy put into activism would be better spent funding public and private defenders before the plea deals get going, etc, etc....whole other thread on that)? I’d ask, but I’m afraid I’ll probably be called some not very nice things.

Name calling is the only card too many people have to play.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

What did you say your age is again?

African Americans were denied student housing well into the 1950s. Women were granted student housing before any blacks. Just what year did the U allow black men into student dorms. Enlighten me.

It really is amazing isn’t it? The more history we read the more disturbing it becomes. A cautionary tale. Reading about the segregation of students at the U back in the 30s, 40s, 50s is simply dumbfounding reading and makes one consider human nature...crazy beliefs, mostly bygone attitudes regarding skin color that are startlingly ignorant and tribal. Reminds of past hard line religions. Why? How? Antiquated and dangerous beliefs still exist in pockets even in western societies, clinging to a bygone age.

 

[mjfelton15]

Because I was curious I did read the rest of this. And yea, you're either a knowing racist or very ignorant. You clearly think you know more about this than you do since you stop at the facts that are convenient for you. Yes, systemic racism is why black fathers are more absent than white ones. Yes, systemic racism is why the black family has been in flux since literally the beginning of black presence in America. Yes, systemic racism is why black men make up so much of the prison system. Things like the fact that white people do more drugs statistically but are far less likely to be in jail for drug possession. The info is out there but yea, you're probably a racist lol. It's ok. I'm black so I'm used to dealing with your kind, the type that thinks black people are inferior but won't admit it to themselves so you ask stupid questions like 'Because it couldn’t possibly be that black men are committing a disproportionate amount of jail/prison worthy crime, that’d be preposterous right?' but then don't actually put the energy into finding out the answers to those questions which are actually readily available. So yea, you're racist either because you believe the nonsense or because you don't actually care enough to learn the truth and are good with spouting racist ideologies. And don't bother responding. I'm in the habit of putting racists on my ignore list lol

All I’m seeing when I read your post is a bunch of things wrong in the black community that modern leftists have blamed on systemic racism, when truly what it boils down to is lack of personal responsibility and accountability in the black community. What system is causing black fathers to not be there for their children at a higher rate than white fathers? What system? Give me a specific name of an organization or group. You can’t be that vague and expect us to solve any problems, but then again you don’t want us to solve the problem. If we’re constantly chasing a boogeyman called “systemic racism”, then the black community never has to own up to their faults and fix things. Is systemic racism making young black adults pull the trigger in a drive-by shooting? what system is forcing the guy’s finger to pull?
I don’t think that blacks are inferior, I think the black community needs to stop griping. You don’t see any other minority community bitching and moaning about fairness and systemic racism. Why is that? I love to see people in the black community succeed. Absolutely love it. With how many white people there are that complain about their tax dollars paying for EBT, food stamps, welfare, etc. do you think that the majority of whites want the black community to not do well? The more success that the black community has, the less burden on our taxes. So I’d say we’re just waiting for the bitching to stop. We all have our problems, but who’s constantly blaming everyone else, and who isn’t? You can sit and call me the typical labels that lefties love to place on anyone that disagrees with their ways of thinking. I don’t care. According to people on the left, and to the black community, just about every white person is a racist now. Some even say we’re inherently racist from birth. It’s in white DNA. So I don’t give two shits if, in your mind, I’m a racist. It means nothing to me.

 

[TrapperDoo]

Individuals are the important thing. Individuals will succeed where victim group will always fail. That result is well settled - though many find it inconvenient. Identity politics only makes an excuse for members to fail, and then it becomes a foregone result. Its a big, tough world out there, but an individual can thrive. Many do. That should be the message.

 

[Crosby]

black people? And honestly I don't know you and haven't read anything you've said other than when you quoted me but hey, thanks for outing yourself as a racist idiot too and saving me the trouble

Classic.... "I have not read anything you have said" but you are obviously a "racist idiot." That statement is a perfect example of why most of these "discussions" go nowhere. I think it's really sad, and I think it is the single most limiting factor to meaningful dialogue on these types of issues.

 

[Deleted_User]

I went to university in the later part of the 1960's, there were African Americans in my dorm. Men were not allowed on the female side, women were not allowed on the male side.

Somehow that gives me no comfort that you have learned anything by my post.

 

[oleboy41]

Classic.... "I have not read anything you have said" but you are obviously a "racist idiot." That statement is a perfect example of why most of these "discussions" go nowhere. I think it's really sad, and I think it is the single most limiting factor to meaningful dialogue on these types of issues.

Naw. Racism is. I read what he quoted me on, and called it for what it is. I dont engage with racists, whether they acknowledge their racism or not. Its not my responsibility to educate white people on their own racism while subjecting myself to it. But feel free to talk amongst yourselves.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

Oh it’s discriminatory. Certain schools choose a specific ‘student’ that the similar athlete (Non white) chooses Marquette to play D1 b-ball.

 

[mjfelton15]

Naw. Racism is. I read what he quoted me on, and called it for what it is. I dont engage with racists, whether they acknowledge their racism or not. Its not my responsibility to educate white people on their own racism while subjecting myself to it. But feel free to talk amongst yourselves.

What he’s really saying:
“I don’t engage with racists and I will determine if you’re a racist based on my own definition of racism, your belief system means nothing if I’ve determined you’re a racist. I like to cut a large number of white people out of my life because in my opinion they’re racist. I’m also intellectually superior to white people because I can identify the racism in their hearts that they’ve yet to even see for themselves. I shouldn’t have to educate white people on the racism that I see in them though, I will just label them a racist and then it is their duty to shut up and feel white guilt for their evil white hearts.”

-Oleboy41

 

[So_Money]

I am an egalitarian, I believe we all need to be treated equally that there is no innate qualification anyone holds based on race. having inferiority or superiority, or advantage or disadvantage in any aspect of life doesn't mean they don't exist elsewhere. We are all different, with different skill levels and different life experiences. This makes us who we are for better or worse. Why it cannot be left there I don't know? And honestly why something so basic as this isn't agreed on.

This is why I despise debating race relations. There is no point. It will always spiral into a debate over equity, who wants or holds the power.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Naw. Racism is. I read what he quoted me on, and called it for what it is. I dont engage with racists, whether they acknowledge their racism or not. Its not my responsibility to educate white people on their own racism while subjecting myself to it. But feel free to talk amongst yourselves.

You have been very quick to label a number of people you don't know as racist.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

After seeing these same stories, storylines recycle over and over one can become cynical it’s partly about politics, partly about cultivating a divide rather than bridging a gap to further certain agendas which aren’t that hard to decipher. This goes on on both sides of the aisle. Some people want conflict and drama

Race relations have an ugly, ugly history here. Let’s make that clear. And, there are ongoing legitimate inequities in terms of wealth (paradox exists that making money is exponentially easier if one already has money...), access to good criminal defense, baked in human prejudice and bias which Oleboy is also guilty of and the list goes on. So, there are some mechanisms that could be improved.

However...I think people become defensive when they are accused of vile things...despite feeling they personally are doing nothing wrong and perhaps observing there are some indwelling cultural or taught behaviors issues that are not helpful to integrating into greater society and rarely if ever talked about by so called community leaders and mentors.

 

[Deleted_User]

This is why I despise debating race relations. There is no point. It will always spiral into a debate over equity, who wants or holds the power.

I have been listening to MPR on Mondays at noon. Great show on race relations. I have heard things I was never aware of, like people being forced from neighborhoods for their race and their property seized. Told to move in one hour. Bank accounts frozen and stolen. Businesses abandoned in the hope not to be strung up on a rope in a tree or simply burned alive, like some medieval horror. How do you make a person whole when their identity is erased from local records, yet there are historical records that prove that they were prominent citizens, productive and consequential. And, it has even happened in Minnesota. Yet, we cannot agree that black athletes deserve to finish their degrees and they walk away from this opportunity! I think it is almost worth paying these kids to finish. And, if they don't finish, maybe we hand them a bundle of cash, enough for a house or a business. We have to start somewhere. As a society, we have to make these kids whole for the generations before them.

In the past, I have said reparations should not apply to me as a white tax payer. But, there must be a way to help make these families and community whole.