Is the Indiana program doing better than Minnesota?

Donate To GopherHole
Some guy said:
Took you off ignore again.
Click to expand...
This is like the 10th time you've claimed this. :sneaky:

Some guy said:
Allen Big Ten record
15-19
fleck big ten record
15-19
Number of teams fleck has beaten that finished with winning records in the big ten:
3
Number of teams Allen has beaten that finished with winning records in the big ten:
1
Click to expand...
Right. When you compare the two years that have so far made both coaches:

Minnesota 2019: 7-2 in Big Ten, one winning in Big Ten (Penn St 7-2, Illinois 4-5, everyone else 3-6 or worse)
Indiana 2020: 6-1 in Big Ten, none winning in Big Ten (Wisconsin was 3-3, Penn St 4-5, Maryland 2-3)

Mostly the same. A lot of Big Ten wins against non-winning Big Ten teams. But my points is that those teams that could pad their regular records with non-conf games, in regular years. Hence why looking naively at overall win-loss record is a poor metric.

Also, would Wisconsin have gotten up to a winning record in the Big Ten this year in a normal season? They didn't get to play Nebraska or Purdue, so the answer is likely yes.

Some guy said:
Big ten record of Allen‘s big ten wins:
30-93 (.24)
Big ten record of Flecks big ten wins:
33-69 (.32)
Click to expand...
So the 15 Big Ten teams that Allen has beaten, played 123 games, but the 15 teams that Fleck has beaten have only played 102 games? That makes no sense considering how many of Allen's wins came in 2020 vs how many of Fleck's did not.
 



MplsGopher said:
Not sure what I miscounted the first time

So the 15 Big Ten teams that Allen has beaten, played 123 games, but the 15 teams that Fleck has beaten have only played 102 games? That makes no sense considering how many of Allen's wins came in 2020 vs how many of Fleck's did not.
Click to expand...
Not sure where I messed up the count the first time

Allen’s wins
2017
Illinois 0-9
Rutgers 3-6

3-15

2018
Rutgers 0-9
Maryland 3-6

3-15

2019
Rutgers 0-9
Maryland 1-8
Nebraska 3-6
Northwestern 1-8
Purdue 3-6

8-37

2020
Penn state 4-5
Maryland 2-3
Rutgers 3-6
Michigan 2-4
Michigan state 2-5
Wisconsin 3-3

16-26


allen total
30-93 (.24)

Minnesota
2017
Illinois 0-9
Nebraska 3-6

3-15

2018
Purdue 5-4
Wisconsin 5-4
Indiana 2-7

12-15

2019
Maryland 1-8
Rutgers 0-9
Penn state 7-2
Illinois 4-5
Nebraska 3-6
Purdue 3-6
Northwestern 1-8

19-44

2020
Illinois 2-6
Purdue 2-4
Nebraska 3-5

7-15

41-89 (.32)
 



Some guy said:
Not sure where I messed up the count the first time

Allen’s wins
2017
Illinois 0-9
Rutgers 3-6

3-15

2018
Rutgers 0-9
Maryland 3-6

3-15

2019
Rutgers 0-9
Maryland 1-8
Nebraska 3-6
Northwestern 1-8
Purdue 3-6

8-37

2020
Penn state 4-5
Maryland 2-3
Rutgers 3-6
Michigan 2-4
Michigan state 2-5
Wisconsin 3-3

16-26


allen total
30-93 (.24)

Minnesota
2017
Illinois 0-9
Nebraska 3-6

3-15

2018
Purdue 5-4
Wisconsin 5-4
Indiana 2-7

12-15

2019
Maryland 1-8
Rutgers 0-9
Penn state 7-2
Illinois 4-5
Nebraska 3-6
Purdue 3-6
Northwestern 1-8

19-44

2020
Illinois 2-6
Purdue 2-4
Nebraska 3-5

7-15

41-89 (.32)
Click to expand...
Thank you. Appreciate this.

At the end of the day, what are we left with? A lot of Big Ten wins against teams with losing Big Ten records.

Maybe it's not a very helpful metric, either. Maybe Ohio State's wouldn't really look much better.
 

Very comparable. 2nd in division however, MN beat a #12 9-3 Auburn team in a bowl that Auburn wanted to be at.

Indiana lost to Ole Miss, a 4-5 team that lost to Auburn and Arkansas this year.

Indiana lost their QB however, which likely made a big difference for them.
 

They won six games.
MplsGopher said:
They lost their QB. Still were competitive and had a chance to win. Would we have beaten Auburn without Morgan? Who knows.


Both ended the season with two losses.

They would've smoked their blood-rival Purdue, then lost the bowl game. We got smoked by our blood-rival in 2019, then won the bowl game. I know which I would've rather had.


Regardless, there is no point trying to compare 2019 Minnesota vs 2020 Indiana, other than "for fun".


2021 will tell the story.


From the little I've seen of him, Tom Allen seems like an awesome coach.
Click to expand...
Our rival and bowl opponents were much better. You’d rather beat a crappy rival and lose to a mediocre team in a bowl game?
 

Still haven't figured out why people are obsessed with Indiana's one year climb this year. Perhaps in a few years you can make comparisons.
 



They haven’t won a bowl game in 30 years, so there ‘s that.
 

btowngopher said:
You’d rather beat a crappy rival and lose to a mediocre team in a bowl game?
Click to expand...
As I said, in 2019 I would’ve rather beat Wisconsin than Auburn.

However that would’ve put the Gophers in the Rose Bowl. So I suspect almost all Gopher fans would also have preferred that, no matter how bad the hypothetical loss in the Rose.
 

MplsGopher said:
As I said, in 2019 I would’ve rather beat Wisconsin than Auburn.

However that would’ve put the Gophers in the Rose Bowl. So I suspect almost all Gopher fans would also have preferred that, no matter how bad the hypothetical loss in the Rose.
Click to expand...
Yes but you made it sound like Indiana beating Purdue and losing to ole miss is more impressive than losing to Wisconsin and beating Auburn.
 

btowngopher said:
Yes but you made it sound like Indiana beating Purdue and losing to ole miss is more impressive than losing to Wisconsin and beating Auburn.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what to say, because that's not what I wrote. It was the simple idea that beating your top rival can be more important to a team in a given year than that year's bowl game.

In 2019, I would say that would've definitely held true for Gophers vs Wisc.
In 2020, maybe that would've held true for IU.

But that doesn't mean those two things are comparable to each other.
 



MplsGopher said:
I'm not sure what to say, because that's not what I wrote. It was the simple idea that beating your top rival can be more important to a team in a given year than that year's bowl game.

In 2019, I would say that would've definitely held true for Gophers vs Wisc.
In 2020, maybe that would've held true for IU.

But that doesn't mean those two things are comparable to each other.
Click to expand...
“They would've smoked their blood-rival Purdue, then lost the bowl game. We got smoked by our blood-rival in 2019, then won the bowl game. I know which I would've rather had.” The way you wrote it, it sounds like you preferred Purdue’s two games.
 

btowngopher said:
“They would've smoked their blood-rival Purdue, then lost the bowl game. We got smoked by our blood-rival in 2019, then won the bowl game. I know which I would've rather had.” The way you wrote it, it sounds like you preferred Purdue’s two games.
Click to expand...
That's your subjective interpretation. I clarified it. Do you have anything to say to the clarification, or can we move on? I'm not going to apologize that you didn't interpret it the way I intended for you to interpret it.
 

Seeing the frost thread I happened to notice Tom Allen has never beaten a team that finished with a winning conference record
 

MaxyJR1 said:
I rate them at this point as.

1. Fleck
2. Allen
3. Frost
4. Brohm

Brohm is last in recruiting and lost a bunch of opt outs this week. I also don’t think he wants to be at Purdue

Frost is really trying to put his culture in place should have some time to do it. His recruiting looks good.

Allen was perfect IU hire. If he can have a season like this every 3-5 years he will be there as long as he wants.

Fleck I’m just a homer.

I think Brohm is the only bad fit.
Click to expand...
You underrate brohm a bit

he is solid. Allen is solid.
Fleck slightly above those two.
Frost LOL
 

Thanks for reviving this thread. It is amazing with small sample sizes how quickly one coach can look amazing an another can be a disaster. The reason we are trending up is not just about victories, but about the fact we are producing NFL talent year in and year out.

2019 - 5 drafted - highest 2nd rd
2020 - 2 drafted - highest 1st rd.
2021 - potentially up to 7 draftees with 2 top 3 round potential (Faalele and Mafe).

We will continue to build as long as Fleck stays here and continues to get people to the NFL and keeps culture strong.
 



Just curious if anyone still wants to trade places with Indiana after their big breakout year in 2020?
 

Schnauzer said:
Just curious if anyone still wants to trade places with Indiana after their big breakout year in 2020?
Click to expand...

This should have ended after the initial question. Nobody should have had an argument for it the first place.

Hope somebody mentioned this in the thread, but as long as Indiana plays Penn State, MSU, tOSU and Michigan every year, Indy will never have sustained success.
 
Last edited:


btowngopher said:
Great call here too.
Click to expand...
And he is probably saying the staff was disappointing because they didn’t make the conference title game too


team so bad they have no chance

team so good the coaches messed it up and lost
 


Indiana (and Purdue) have recruiting advantage being closer to the Rust Belt, Eastern Seaboard and part of SEC country.
When they do well, they may impact Gopher Recruiting in their territories.

I would take PJ Fleck long term over Allen (and Brohm). PJ Fleck is making a traditionally recruiting disadvantage into an advantage.

His legacy is still being written. He is doing wonders to my long-suffering psyche.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom