How do you feel about the state of program right now?

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If GH posters can figure out that it was a bad choice, then I must believe Coyle knew it too and it was mandated by a University president who is no longer here because she was forced to step down.

They did that part off record so FOIA requests could never find it. Texts and emails long since deleted and we’re done on personal devices/accounts, not official University ones.
 

MplsGopher said:
If GH posters can figure out that it was a bad choice, then I must believe Coyle knew it too and it was mandated by a University president who is no longer here because she was forced to step down.

They did that part off record so FOIA requests could never find it. Texts and emails long since deleted and we’re done on personal devices/accounts, not official University ones.
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I've said it before, and I'll say it again: if he made a bad hire for any reason, it's still on him. If he's covering up a situation where he was given no authority but all the responsibility and accountability, then shame on him. An honorable person would have brought that out into the light or resigned. "Just following orders" should still get you court martialed.

If that's what happened, it's just as bad of a violation of the concept of affirmative action as not having seriously considered qualified minority candidates. Stuff like this does not get us progress; in fact, it sets us back.
 

Almost any other situation, your way of thinking seems perfectly reasonable to me.

You’re saying in Minneapolis in the early 2020’s that you wanted him to resign for being forced to hire a Black head men’s basketball coach? That’s how the media would play it, on purpose, to gin up the biggest controversy. You know that.

Come on man. You’re not a real person if you think that was a thing on the table.
 

MplsGopher said:
Almost any other situation, your way of thinking seems perfectly reasonable to me.

You’re saying in Minneapolis in the early 2020’s that you wanted him to resign for being forced to hire a Black head men’s basketball coach? That’s how the media would play it, on purpose, to gin up the biggest controversy. You know that.

Come on man. You’re not a real person if you think that was a thing on the table.
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Doing the wrong thing is always wrong, no matter what year it is. Like I said, if that's what happened, it's a violation of every affirmative action policy I've ever seen. I would never do that, no way, no how. The stakes are too high on multiple levels.

Rhetorical question: be fired and/or disgraced for ruining the basketball program or resign in protest over an improper hiring process? I know what my choice would be. You do you.
 

Being publicly tarred and feathered and blackballed from ever being hired again?

You’re not real
 


BleedGopher said:
I'll add, I knew we were in trouble when he didn't make a single coaching change after two of the worst seasons in program history. Even to shake up things, new ideas, etc., he essentially endorsed the work the staff is doing by keeping it intact.

And Coyle didn't mandate a change because "nobody wants to win as much as Ben Johnsonson does."

Go Gophers!!
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The staff is utilizing work-to-rule tactics. Both sides know this and the U is in a tight spot.
 


TD12 said:
A team typically takes on the personality//persona of the COACH. Ben Johnson is emotionless and stands with his arms crossed all FING game. He may be a good assistant, but is not head coach material.

It is too bad that the U has swung and missed terribly on this hire. They thought because he is a person of color and local he could bring in the talent and keep the talent in the state.

Bottom line is that he is a BAD coach. He makes no adjustments at all, he lets his players take bad fing shots all over the place, and he has yet to recruit a LEAD GUARD!!!

We have little to no shooting on this roster. Just plain and simple. Another wasted year!!
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There's not much evidence he was a good assistant actually.
 

I haven't watched a second of the team this year. That's where I'm at.

Coyle will be very slow to fire in this case. I imagine he thinks his own job is in jeopardy and will give Ben every single opportunity to turn it around. That's an incredibly unfortunate possibility for Gopher fans.
 



Pewterschmidt said:
I haven't watched a second of the team this year. That's where I'm at.

Coyle will be very slow to fire in this case. I imagine he thinks his own job is in jeopardy and will give Ben every single opportunity to turn it around. That's an incredibly unfortunate possibility for Gopher fans.
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If Coyle thinks his own job is in jeopardy, the last thing you do is keep the worst Gopher basketball coach of all time employed.
 

COYLE........Needs to make this decision NOW......This is tough to watch.
 

Answering the OP…

I forgot there was a game last night until 9:45 PM. Checked the score and felt nothing.
 




MTBeaudry said:
I actually think this group of players on Ben's team have talent and potential we lost badly in a scrimmage against a good Colorado State team ( unbeaten), lost by blowing a big lead to a above average Missouri team and lost away to a above average WCC team in San Francisco. They will not lose another non concference gam ( and there schedule was not as poor as we wwre lead to beliece and i believe in conference and confeeence tournanent games in the Big Ten we will will win 6-8 or 9 game whichch puts there total at 16-19 wins and a NIT bertg!
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You can believe all you want, but the data do not back you up. Bethune Cookman, UTSA, USC Upstate, and Ak PB are all as terrible as advertised. None of the remaining noncon opponents are performing better than was expected, and a couple are worse. Even the vaunted Mizzou has been worse than expected. USF is the only one among the non con opponents that is slightly better - and they would currently be ranked 12th in the B1G.

There are some things in the analytics, however, that provide kernels of optimism. They should focus on cutting down on turnovers (a bad weakness) and pounding it inside more (they're among the best at 2P%, but take way too many 3s for the percent they make). That's called making adjustments. I think they've got potential if they take advantage of their strengths.
 

Gotta hire a flamethrower. Yes , sometimes the admin needs to live in a house of asbestos but it is time.
 





BarnBurner said:
He got Lindsey wrong, and got obj wrong. His hires. EPIC failure.
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I guess the thing that bugs me the most is that Coyle took the chance on Lindsey - and found out that she was not able to coach having not had any meaningful coaching experience. Then he did the same thing with Ben.

Coyle's hiring record is mixed - mainly because he over values personal appeal and under values track record. Plitzuweit and Motzko are huge wins - who had seriously strong track records before being hired. Coyle needs to focus on that
 


I was listening to Doogie on Skor North. They were talking about Gopher Basketball, and Doogie made this very veiled statement.

"there's a lot more to the hiring of Ben Johnson than maybe Mark Coyle could ever publicly acknowledge....."

at that point, I would have had a follow-up question or two, but Mackey and Judd just let it go by without further comment.

FWIW, I have stuck up for Johnson because he seems like a good guy - he's a former Gopher - and I always hope that the new coach is going to work out.

But I have pretty much given up any hope that things are going to turn around. I'll watch the games when they're on TV (but I'm not shelling out for another month of Peacock...)

I still hold to this: coaching matters, but talent matters too. and the Gophers do not have the NIL needed to bring in the level of talent that would allow the program to really move up in the conference standings.
 


UST82Gopher said:
I guess the thing that bugs me the most is that Coyle took the chance on Lindsey - and found out that she was not able to coach having not had any meaningful coaching experience. Then he did the same thing with Ben.

Coyle's hiring record is mixed - mainly because he over values personal appeal and under values track record. Plitzuweit and Motzko are huge wins - who had seriously strong track records before being hired. Coyle needs to focus on that
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It's too early to claim Plitzuweit a huge win. We are 7ish games into her first year. Motzko is good, but I think many people would have been good as the hockey program was a sleeping giant that needed to get out from under Lucia's run.

*but on Plitzuweit, the one game I watched, was much crisper than any of the Whalen games I ever watched...so there is that.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I was listening to Doogie on Skor North. They were talking about Gopher Basketball, and Doogie made this very veiled statement.

"there's a lot more to the hiring of Ben Johnson than maybe Mark Coyle could ever publicly acknowledge....."

at that point, I would have had a follow-up question or two, but Mackey and Judd just let it go by without further comment.

FWIW, I have stuck up for Johnson because he seems like a good guy - he's a former Gopher - and I always hope that the new coach is going to work out.

But I have pretty much given up any hope that things are going to turn around. I'll watch the games when they're on TV (but I'm not shelling out for another month of Peacock...)

I still hold to this: coaching matters, but talent matters too. and the Gophers do not have the NIL needed to bring in the level of talent that would allow the program to really move up in the conference standings.
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Even after he quits or is fired? Meaning a gag order? WTF
 

UST82Gopher said:
I guess the thing that bugs me the most is that Coyle took the chance on Lindsey - and found out that she was not able to coach having not had any meaningful coaching experience. Then he did the same thing with Ben.

Coyle's hiring record is mixed - mainly because he over values personal appeal and under values track record. Plitzuweit and Motzko are huge wins - who had seriously strong track records before being hired. Coyle needs to focus on that
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Having been a part of multiple panels when assessing candidates, as much as any organization tries to make it objective, we are ultimately social animals, so the emotional / personal aspects will factor into the equation. The question is by how much?

I agree with Holy Man in that overcorrecting for a previous deficiency can absolutely happen, and depending on how much weight that criteria was given, it could definitely skew decision making. If there was an emphasis on retaining local talent, it wouldn't be the first time a single issue dominated the thought process. But like BG said, it ultimately falls on Coyle. Ben didn't install himself as the coach.

What gives me a little bit of hope is that the Lindsay corrective action appears to have been a massive improvement. I'm really excited for Coach P. I'll even be attending my first WBB ever in a couple of weeks. The team plays hard, they play disciplined and they appear very fundamentally sound on both sides of the ball. They did not shoot well vs. UConn (and it happens), but they were competitive until the final horn sounded.
 

DarthGopher said:
Having been a part of multiple panels when assessing candidates, as much as any organization tries to make it objective, we are ultimately social animals, so the emotional / personal aspects will factor into the equation. The question is by how much?

I agree with Holy Man in that overcorrecting for a previous deficiency can absolutely happen, and depending on how much weight that criteria was given, it could definitely skew decision making. If there was an emphasis on retaining local talent, it wouldn't be the first time a single issue dominated the thought process. But like BG said, it ultimately falls on Coyle. Ben didn't install himself as the coach.

What gives me a little bit of hope is that the Lindsay corrective action appears to have been a massive improvement. I'm really excited for Coach P. I'll even be attending my first WBB ever in a couple of weeks. The team plays hard, they play disciplined and they appear very fundamentally sound on both sides of the ball. They did not shoot well vs. UConn (and it happens), but they were competitive until the final horn sounded.
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Much has been speculated about possible undue pressure on Coyle by "the administration" to do a "diversity hire." But I wonder whether there's been pressure on Coyle by local basketball movers and shakers and high school coaches: hire someone we know and like or you'll never get another one of our top recruits.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Much has been speculated about possible undue pressure on Coyle by "the administration" to do a "diversity hire." But I wonder whether there's been pressure on Coyle by local basketball movers and shakers and high school coaches: hire someone we know and like or you'll never get another one of our top recruits.
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Asuma aside, Ben has missed on every top MN recruit.. so if that's what was said... These MN h.s. and local movers and shakers point blank lied to em
 


TD12 said:
A team typically takes on the personality//persona of the COACH. Ben Johnson is emotionless and stands with his arms crossed all FING game. He may be a good assistant, but is not head coach material.

It is too bad that the U has swung and missed terribly on this hire. They thought because he is a person of color and local he could bring in the talent and keep the talent in the state.

Bottom line is that he is a BAD coach. He makes no adjustments at all, he lets his players take bad fing shots all over the place, and he has yet to recruit a LEAD GUARD!!!

We have little to no shooting on this roster. Just plain and simple. Another wasted year!!
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With some good coaching, do you think Hawkins could be a decent point guard? He's quick, pretty good handles. Seems like he could make things happen. What do I know?
 

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