Gophers-Colorado St scrimmage

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kg21 said:
Totally unwarranted.

The score doesn't matter in the least. It was a scrimmage with different combos, different scoring, etc.
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Perhaps unwarranted. The near future will confirm or deny that. What cannot be argued is that a seemingly miserable performance has a lot of people in a dwindling population of those who care in a tizzy. Someone with some authority needs to pay attention to that. We might all be wrong but the fact we believe it is enough that it should be addressed somehow.
 


kg21 said:
Totally unwarranted.

The score doesn't matter in the least. It was a scrimmage with different combos, different scoring, etc.
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I will argue that when you are giving up points at will and I don't care what combo you have out there it matters. Defense is a team thing, everything else can go wrong but if you can't or don't play defense you are going to struggle. I hope it was a one off but I doubt it.
 






Bad Gopher said:
Do you have proof now? You hadn't been able to produce any in the past, so looking for an update on your investigation.
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It's all circumstantial evidence, but c'mon now, it seems pretty clear what happened. Coyle mentioned the "search committee" multiple times and credited them for helping with the hire during the opening presser. Has Coyle credited a search committee for other hires? Genuine question as I have no idea. If not, then it's clear this wasn't his hire. How many people expected Coyle to receive assistance from a "search committee" to make this hire? He had Dutcher lined up for an interview then cancelled. Was he really that "blown away" by Ben, or did the "search committee" reduce his candidate pool?
 

Bad Gopher said:
Do you have proof now? You hadn't been able to produce any in the past, so looking for an update on your investigation.
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"You don't need proof if you have instinct!"

- Joe Cabot (played by Lawrence Tierney) in Reservoir Dogs

(It must be said that Joe Cabot was right about "the rat" in that one)
 



GopherBlood666 said:
How many people expected Coyle to receive assistance from a "search committee" to make this hire?
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In a public university setting, most hires of any stature are handled by a search committee. Now, that doesn't mean that everyone has an equal voice or committee members don't function as a rubber stamp for what certain influential people want.

I'm speaking from experience. I've served on more than a few search committees.

I would also say that EEO people in general do not shy away from exerting their influence.
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
In a public university setting, most hires of any stature are handled by a search committee. Now, that doesn't mean that everyone has an equal voice or committee members don't function as a rubber stamp for what certain influential people want.

I'm speaking from experience. I've served on more than a few search committees.

I would also say that EEO people in general do not shy away from exerting their influence.
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You have worked in a search committee for a Men's basketball coach at a major public university with the active AD? And you just started posting when RockRaven was banned? Was there a search committee credited for the hires of Fleck/Motzko during their opening pressers?
 

GopherBlood666 said:
You have worked in a search committee for a Men's basketball coach at a major public university with the active AD? And you just started posting when RockRaven was banned? Was there a search committee credited for the hires of Fleck/Motzko during their opening pressers?
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Look, if you would look at Rockraven's postings and compare them to mine, you would see that we are not the same person. I lurked here during the summer and I read a number of his posts. He fought with some people that I don't particularly like either so all I would say is that "enemy of my enemies is my friend." Rockraven is not the only ex-poster who may have returned here. The universe is bigger than some of you seem to realize.

No, I never served on an athletic hiring committee (of no interest to me) but I've had colleagues who have. I'm just telling you the methodology that normally is employed. Believe what you want. You can also believe that I'm Rockraven if you want. Why should I care if he is blamed for some of my transgressions?
 




TwistingMyMelon said:
Look, if you would look at Rockraven's postings and compare them to mine, you would see that we are not the same person. I lurked here during the summer and I read a number of his posts. He fought with some people that I don't particularly like either so all I would say is that "enemy of my enemies is my friend." Rockraven is not the only ex-poster who may have returned here. The universe is bigger than some of you seem to realize.

No, I never served on an athletic hiring committee (of no interest to me) but I've had colleagues who have. I'm just telling you the methodology that normally is employed. Believe what you want. You can also believe that I'm Rockraven if you want. Why should I care if he is blamed for some of my transgressions?
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I’ll settle for -

 

TwistingMyMelon said:
Look, if you would look at Rockraven's postings and compare them to mine, you would see that we are not the same person. I lurked here during the summer and I read a number of his posts. He fought with some people that I don't particularly like either so all I would say is that "enemy of my enemies is my friend." Rockraven is not the only ex-poster who may have returned here. The universe is bigger than some of you seem to realize.

No, I never served on an athletic hiring committee (of no interest to me) but I've had colleagues who have. I'm just telling you the methodology that normally is employed. Believe what you want. You can also believe that I'm Rockraven if you want. Why should I care if he is blamed for some of my transgressions?
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Just a guy asking questions here. You initially stated that YOU served on multiple search committees such as this (which would imply a similar scenario or why even bring it up) "I'm speaking from experience. I've served on more than a few search committees." Now you say that you have never done so to hire an athletic leadership position, but you know people who have? Okay. I will ask again, did Mark Coyle credit a search committee in the hiring of Fleck/Motzko? If yes, I will concede that is the status quo for U of M operations. I have just never heard anyone bring it up as a comparison on this board when referencing this hire. If someone had said, "here is Coyle after hiring Fleck/Motzko crediting a search committee so not a big deal" then I would agree brining it up would be pointless. I figure the only applicable comparison hires would be the other top revenue sports. Maybe throw in Volleyball since their attendance may be higher on average (actual people in seats) than the bball team lately. They also hired a new coach recently, right? Did they credit a "search committee" as well?
 



GopherBlood666 said:
Just a guy asking questions here. You initially stated that YOU served on multiple search committees such as this (which would imply a similar scenario or why even bring it up) "I'm speaking from experience. I've served on more than a few search committees." Now you say that you have never done so to hire an athletic leadership position, but you know people who have? Okay. I will ask again, did Mark Coyle credit a search committee in the hiring of Fleck/Motzko? If yes, I will concede that is the status quo for U of M operations. I have just never heard anyone bring it up as a comparison on this board when referencing this hire. If someone had said, "here is Coyle after hiring Fleck/Motzko crediting a search committee so not a big deal" then I would agree brining it up would be pointless. I figure the only applicable comparison hires would be the other top revenue sports. Maybe throw in Volleyball since their attendance may be higher on average (actual people in seats) than the bball team lately. They also hired a new coach recently, right? Did they credit a "search committee" as well?
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Committees will be formed for hiring even the highest people like university presidents and vice-presidents. That preserves the illusion of university "self-governance." Again, that doesn't mean that the eventual decision won't be heavily swayed by one or two people. I suspect that Coyle brought up the committee in this case to distribute the responsibility for this decision in other directions.
 

GopherBlood666 said:
Just a guy asking questions here. You initially stated that YOU served on multiple search committees such as this (which would imply a similar scenario or why even bring it up) "I'm speaking from experience. I've served on more than a few search committees." Now you say that you have never done so to hire an athletic leadership position, but you know people who have? Okay. I will ask again, did Mark Coyle credit a search committee in the hiring of Fleck/Motzko? If yes, I will concede that is the status quo for U of M operations. I have just never heard anyone bring it up as a comparison on this board when referencing this hire. If someone had said, "here is Coyle after hiring Fleck/Motzko crediting a search committee so not a big deal" then I would agree brining it up would be pointless. I figure the only applicable comparison hires would be the other top revenue sports. Maybe throw in Volleyball since their attendance may be higher on average (actual people in seats) than the bball team lately. They also hired a new coach recently, right? Did they credit a "search committee" as well?
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www.google.com

Minnesota Hockey: Bob Motzko Press Conference Recap

He seemed to say all the right things
www.google.com www.google.com

kstp.com

Gophers hire Washington's Keegan Cook as head volleyball coach

Cook replaces Hugh McCutcheon, who is shifting to a newly created role of assistant athletics director and sport development coach on Jan. 1.
kstp.com kstp.com

Sorry this is a stupid point. Most ADs will reference a search committee. Most fan bases don't come up with a grand conspiracy for the hires though.

In fact our guy Shooter made an article because it was so rare that Coyle didn't use one for Fleck.

www.google.com

Charley Walters: Gophers AD Coyle landed P.J. Fleck without search firm

The University of Minnesota used a search firm, Atlanta-based Parker Executive Search, as well as local committees to assist then-athletics director Joel Maturi in hiring football coaches Tim Brews…
www.google.com www.google.com
 
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Bad Gopher said:
Do you have proof now? You hadn't been able to produce any in the past, so looking for an update on your investigation.
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You're not going to find evidence that explicitly says that. But it's not difficult to connect the dots. There were multiple articles from the Strib and PP that came out prior to Ben's hiring that Coyle had only hired white coaches, and needed to hire a person of color for basketball because it had been 14 years since the last time they hired a person of color as a head coach (Tubby). Gabel has caved to the mob quickly before (defunding the Minneapolis police being the prominent example).

There's also mention of Gabel's support and sign off here when she left - https://gopherhole.com/boards/threa...ng-supporter-in-departing-u-president.110998/

They reached out to Gates first and he declined an interview. Then Ben Johnson came out of nowhere, was interviewed and immediately hired, less than a week after Pitino was fired.

There were discussions about Dutcher, Smith, and Medved being interviewed, but they never did. They mention this, and Musselman as a potential candidate in this article, but Musselman was never coming here so people need to let that dream die.


Why start with Gates and move to hire Johnson so quickly when other experienced coaches with Minnesota connections were interested in the job? What do Gates and Johnson have in common compared to the others? Johnson wasn't a candidate anywhere else, why the rush? Why not give it more than 1 week?

On top of this I have connections to college basketball/football, the NBA, and NFL that were also baffled at this hire and came to the same conclusion. They knew Smith and Medved were interested, and knew Gates and Musselmen were not. They've also been spot on with other hires like PJ being a success, and Frost being a flop at Nebraska, which shocked me because I thought Frost was going to be successful there.
 


Bad Gopher said:
Do you have proof now? You hadn't been able to produce any in the past, so looking for an update on your investigation.
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I think it's kind of common sense. You'll never find direct proof of it but then you'll almost never find direct proof of this kind of stuff. You need to interpret context.

I don't think you'll find a memo that says the Timberwolves would only give Ryan Saunders a shot to be the HC because he was Flip's kid.

You can believe Mark Coyle decided to hire some guy who with almost no experience who was just turned down by Montana and Northern Illinois. Something magical happened in the interview and Coyle was convinced.

However, it's crazy, given the climate around the U at the time, that there might have been something a little more at play. You'll never find direct evidence of this kind of stuff ever, it doesn't mean it doesn't ever happen.
 


Bad Gopher said:
Do you have proof now? You hadn't been able to produce any in the past, so looking for an update on your investigation.
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We've had a number of similar threads in the past on whether or not Johnson was a diversity hire and who made the call. Last March SKOR North had a podcast where Patrick Reusse flat out stated Coyle's first choice was Dutcher but he was overruled. Some might dismiss the source but I happen to believe him. Your comments at the time suggested you did also.

"Pat IS plugged in, and I believe him, too. He'll BS and exhibit intellectual dishonesty, but he's not a liar.

This is the closest thing we've seen to direct evidence that the president's office directed a skin-color hire. (Along with her recent ethical problems, this is an increasingly bad look for Gabel. Strictly race-based hiring is NOT affirmative action or equity.)

If all true, Dutcher knows he wasn't jilted or passed over by Coyle. That's important if we end up in the same place in the next couple years: looking for a coach again. Coyle may be biding his time and low-grade I-told-you-so-ing with his superiors; next time it's his call."



Reusse Gopher Basketball Insights - Transfer Gossip, NIL Money, Facilities, Dutcher, Musselman ETC

I watched the video and Reusse is critical of Coyle and the athletic department for being way behind on NIL. However, I have heard comments from others that the athletic departments are pretty hands off to NIL and can't be very involved with it. Can someone summarize in laymen terms what the U...
gopherhole.com gopherhole.com
 

I have no interest in re-litigating the hire. No one would talk about it if the program had become more successful.

Ask yourself what does the team do well or even marginally better than average. I shrug at that question and that’s the basis of my judgement. I say it every time that Pikiell lost a craptone of games, but the defense metrics improved dramatically. If Johnson had something, anything, to point to …
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
www.google.com

Minnesota Hockey: Bob Motzko Press Conference Recap

He seemed to say all the right things
www.google.com www.google.com

kstp.com

Gophers hire Washington's Keegan Cook as head volleyball coach

Cook replaces Hugh McCutcheon, who is shifting to a newly created role of assistant athletics director and sport development coach on Jan. 1.
kstp.com kstp.com

Sorry this is a stupid point. Most ADs will reference a search committee. Most fan bases don't come up with a grand conspiracy for the hires though.

In fact our guy Shooter made an article because it was so rare that Coyle didn't use one for Fleck.

www.google.com

Charley Walters: Gophers AD Coyle landed P.J. Fleck without search firm

The University of Minnesota used a search firm, Atlanta-based Parker Executive Search, as well as local committees to assist then-athletics director Joel Maturi in hiring football coaches Tim Brews…
www.google.com www.google.com
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Thanks for the info. It was such a meme with the epic fail of a search committee involving Brewster that I didn't think it happened often. I suppose in that case it was because an external firm was used as opposed to a local group which seems to be the case for the hockey/volleyball hires. The hire has been so bad at this point that a grand conspiracy appears to be the most logical explanation.
 

golfing18now said:
This is the closest thing we've seen to direct evidence that the president's office directed a skin-color hire. (Along with her recent ethical problems, this is an increasingly bad look for Gabel. Strictly race-based hiring is NOT affirmative action or equity.)


Reusse Gopher Basketball Insights - Transfer Gossip, NIL Money, Facilities, Dutcher, Musselman ETC

I watched the video and Reusse is critical of Coyle and the athletic department for being way behind on NIL. However, I have heard comments from others that the athletic departments are pretty hands off to NIL and can't be very involved with it. Can someone summarize in laymen terms what the U...
gopherhole.com gopherhole.com
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You know, this idea may not have started with Gabel. It could have been:

VP for Equity and Diversity & EEO office to Gabel, then

Gabel to committee- including Coyle (probably not an ORDER, but an enthusiastic "suggestion")

Gabel seems like a preferred bogeywoman for many around here but I suspect that the identity of the basketball coach is not the first item on her plate. The identity of a hire of stature is always a high order item for the first set of actors.
 


leib0039 said:
Everyone needs to STOP with the antiquated idea that we need "time to gel". This isn't 1975, transfers happen, these kids practice and see each other all of the time. By this logic Kansas, Kentucky anf Duke should be like 3-5 to start each year since they have 4 freshman and 3 transfers almost every year. If your team isn't "gelling " it's because your coach sucks or your guys aren't good. CSU has 5 guys leave and 4 transfers in, they seem to have figured it out
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So on-court chemistry being a factor in performance is just simply no longer a thing?

2 paths:
1. Build team with 4/5 star players like KS/KY/Duke and let them play AAU style iso-ball.
2. Build team with 2/3 star players and have them run system... which takes time to figure out

KS, KY, and Duke pull it off by having 5 star guys like Banchero or Zion or Kyrie or Embiid where the coach can simply say "When in doubt, give it to ______."

Gelling is absolutely a thing. Knowing when someone is going to cut backdoor or square off a screen or double the post etc etc is important.

That being said... in this convo, I think we're talking about the 10-14th players having time to gel with game time... soooooooooo good use of my time typing this up lol
 

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