Gophers AD Mark Coyle looking for ‘next step’ from Richard Pitino’s basketball team

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I dont buy that people cant wait to get out of the program. Pitino is a good guy and players seem to like him. It's a great university. When people say this it makes it seem like were the worst place on earth to play at. What actually worries me is that there is mention that AAU coaches dont like him and high school coaches dont like him. Sure, we dont need any minnesota players to be successful, but if were getting basically blackballed on most minnesota guys this does not help at all. Will this ever change? I also think though too that alot of these recruits are being told how bad minnesota is. If we do plan on changing coaches I do believe whoever it is, needs to get along with coaches in the state. At this point I dont see any reason not to make Damian johnson an assistant or even miller. Two chances i would take.
 

gophereric30 said:
AAU coaches dont like him and high school coaches dont like him
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Big Red Flag. I've also questioned Pitino's relationships with his assistant coaches and the authority that they have, or their ability to have input. I could be wrong but the staff has never seemed to be smooth.
 

skiumah1 said:
Big Red Flag. I've also questioned Pitino's relationships with his assistant coaches and the authority that they have, or their ability to have input. I could be wrong but the staff has never seemed to be smooth.
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This and defense are the things that worry me the most. Dont see this changing.
 

ethomasp31 said:
If Macura would have liked the coach who was brought in...I think there would have been a strong chance he would have gone to the U.
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That can be said about any recruit anywhere. Pitino was better to JP than the previous staff. At some point he just chose a different staff and a pretty damn good one with Chris Mack.
 

skiumah1 said:
Big Red Flag. I've also questioned Pitino's relationships with his assistant coaches and the authority that they have, or their ability to have input. I could be wrong but the staff has never seemed to be smooth.
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Hes given his assts plenty of input. Now I think it may be worth questioning if he’s hired high enough quality assts or if he develops them well. Also I could care less if AAU or HS coaches “like him”. It won’t matter if he coaches them better and wins more. That’ll “fix” a lot of those relationships. Otherwise they are just petty.
 


manderson1984 said:
Hes given his assts plenty of input. Now I think it may be worth questioning if he’s hired high enough quality assts or if he develops them well. Also I could care less if AAU or HS coaches “like him”. It won’t matter if he coaches them better and wins more. That’ll “fix” a lot of those relationships. Otherwise they are just petty.
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But he hasn't won games and 0 for 15 in 2 years has to mean something. I really think you would like to have good high school relationships within your own state. It only helps you.
 

skiumah1 said:
Well when Tubby came to Minnesota, Minnesotans got excited. Then he landed Royce White and Rodney Williams. 2 Kids in the Top 50. When you have a new coach come to your state, people in that state get excited and kids playing in that state get excited because the state is excited. Tubby wasn't gonna come in here to Minnesota and land 2 kids with that high of a level from a different state.

So I guess that doesn't necessarily relate to being from Minnesota, obviously Tubby didn't have a big Minnesota connection, but coming to Minnesota he got those recruits in MN.

Another example if Pikiell out in New Jersey with Omoruyi. He's not getting a kid outside of New Jersey at that high of level to come play for Rutgers.

But I think if you bring in a guy with a strong Minnesota connection whose name people know, that elevates the excitement level even more and potentially leads to higher/more recruits. That's my prognostication.
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Exactly.

Minnesota is a unique place for various reasons one of them being how extremely provincial it is compared to many other parts of the country.

If a Minnesota guy was hired, my mom would make a comment that it's nice they hired a Minnesota boy (she also does a respectable cover of "When Doves Cry" on that there karaoke machine - not too shabby for an 81 year old gal from da Range). I would definitely try to find a head coach with some sort of Minnesota connection, if possible, not that it would be my only/primary criteria.

I still fondly recall how the Strib did a piece on famous Minnesotns and tried to claim Tom Brokaw, because he lived in SW Minnesota for s couple of years (name of the city escapes me), even though he spent the rest of his childhood, including his formative years in South Dakota, unfortunately. (I stillgot it in me and I haven't lived near any lakes in 25 years).

I would always have an assistant on my staff who has some type of
Minnesota bonifides. You only need a couple of studs to turn around a program in hoops and damn if this lake ain't stocked now with some keepers - gotta use the right bait though or they ain't gonna bite!

It ain't gonna hurt that's fur darn sure.
 
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manderson1984 said:
That can be said about any recruit anywhere. Pitino was better to JP than the previous staff. At some point he just chose a different staff and a pretty damn good one with Chris Mack.
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There were non-basketball issues related to JP's decision as well. Xavier was a good fit for him on multiple levels.
 




skiumah1 said:
But he hasn't won games and 0 for 15 in 2 years has to mean something. I really think you would like to have good high school relationships within your own state. It only helps you.
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Bingo. I don't disagree, but all relationships are mutual and it would be good to know, at least for Coyle, WHY those relationships are bad. It says something about Pitino. But it also says something about the basketball community. I've asked the question for years why he has been blackballed and no one seems to know, other than in general, the hoops community doesn't like Richard. The few people I know who are linked into high school basketball are good, fair-minded people with the best interests of kids in mind. I get a strong sense, but no data to support it, that some of the club people are more ego driven. That may be an issue, too. It goes both ways.

In general, Minnesota is one of the most difficult places in the country for someone to break in socially. I've seen that pattern for years. That probably has something to do with it.
 



MplsGopher said:
Unless he's going into the seminary, that's the least valid answer.

Guaranteed his education would not suffer at a Big Ten school.
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He wanted a smaller school plus he had family in Cincinnati.
 



Holy Man said:
Bingo. I don't disagree, but all relationships are mutual and it would be good to know, at least for Coyle, WHY those relationships are bad. It says something about Pitino. But it also says something about the basketball community. I've asked the question for years why he has been blackballed and no one seems to know, other than in general, the hoops community doesn't like Richard. The few people I know who are linked into high school basketball are good, fair-minded people with the best interests of kids in mind. I get a strong sense, but no data to support it, that some of the club people are more ego driven. That may be an issue, too. It goes both ways.

In general, Minnesota is one of the most difficult places in the country for someone to break in socially. I've seen that pattern for years. That probably has something to do with it.
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I'm sure ego has a lot to do with it. But that's the game I guess. I could see Minnesota being tough like that, my guess would be Richard just didn't put the extra effort in to value those relationships. I would think Minnesotans would be welcoming with enough effort, I just don't know if Richard cared or valued that enough.
 

manderson1984 said:
He wanted a smaller school plus he had family in Cincinnati.
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"Smaller school", alone, doesn't guarantee anything about education. Smaller classroom sizes perhaps, but that isn't guaranteed by a smaller school.

I doubt you disagree with that idea, anyway.
 


Having a good relationship with the HS coaches is important - but let's face it, a lot of the real high-level recruiting revolves around the AAU circuit. As a D1 head coach, you have to be able to get along with the main AAU coaches in your area, and ideally you would like to have a strong relationship with those coaches.

On the flip side, if a coach gets on the sh*t list with key AAU coaches, that can really have a negative impact on the program. And that is what we keep hearing about Pitino - that the local AAU coaches don't like him or think he doesn't go after MN kids hard enough.

That is a big stinkin' problem.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Having a good relationship with the HS coaches is important - but let's face it, a lot of the real high-level recruiting revolves around the AAU circuit. As a D1 head coach, you have to be able to get along with the main AAU coaches in your area, and ideally you would like to have a strong relationship with those coaches.

On the flip side, if a coach gets on the sh*t list with key AAU coaches, that can really have a negative impact on the program. And that is what we keep hearing about Pitino - that the local AAU coaches don't like him or think he doesn't go after MN kids hard enough.

That is a big stinkin' problem.
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Or he refuses to grease them.... The AAU might be a little dirty.
 




EsteGuey said:
Every B1G school outside of maybe Nebraska trumps Xavier academic-wise. A smaller school however would be a more valid reason.
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From what I recall, his finalists were Butler, Creighton, Minnesota, and Xavier. Three small, private, religious institutions and one of the largest public schools in the country.

And with regard to Tubby losing him, I think Macura was a late bloomer and wasn’t considered a high major prospect until after Tubby was fired, not that Tubby was lighting it up in recruiting at that point anyway.
 


Cayman said:
From what I recall, his finalists were Butler, Creighton, Minnesota, and Xavier. Three small, private, religious institutions and one of the largest public schools in the country.

And with regard to Tubby losing him, I think Macura was a late bloomer and wasn’t considered a high major prospect until after Tubby was fired, not that Tubby was lighting it up in recruiting at that point anyway.
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He was a late bloomer but was worthy of an offer while Tubby was still here. His JR year was very good.
 

Cayman said:
From what I recall, his finalists were Butler, Creighton, Minnesota, and Xavier. Three small, private, religious institutions and one of the largest public schools in the country.

And with regard to Tubby losing him, I think Macura was a late bloomer and wasn’t considered a high major prospect until after Tubby was fired, not that Tubby was lighting it up in recruiting at that point anyway.
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Would be an interesting hypothetical if St Thomas were in the Big East and playing in Target Center or Xcel Center, would that be on his list.
 


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