Gophers AD Mark Coyle looking for ‘next step’ from Richard Pitino’s basketball team

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manderson1984 said:
It actually has a lot more to do with it than you think. Have you heard local recruits say it? I have. Now that being said of course our lack of success and development hurts more, but it's a bigger issue than it's given credit for.
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As someone who knows two current UW players, I have heard that the state of the Gopher basketball program and the lack of interest from Pitino and co until it was too late were the main factors in leaving home. Both would have been major contributors here.
 

GoodasGold said:
Those less attractive girls who get invited to the dance have other assets with which they are adept at employing for the benefit of their respective programs. Good looks will only get you so far.
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Or like I've always said: there's only so much you can do with a face.
 

EsteGuey said:
As someone who knows two current UW players, I have heard that the state of the Gopher basketball program and the lack of interest from Pitino and co until it was too late were the main factors in leaving home. Both would have been major contributors here.
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Yes building relationships early has hurt them in the past. Per Ryan James, they've done a lot better with the upcoming kids like Holloman, the kid from TG who's name is escaping me and others.
 

manderson1984 said:
I've stated this numerous times, but the urban university isn't always a draw for suburban white kids. It's a big reason why we need to get over losing kids from the metro.
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There are coaches that would have been able to get several of those suburban kids to come to the U. Many of those kids did not think our coach was the best coach that offered.
 

builtbadgers said:
There are coaches that would have been able to get several of those suburban kids to come to the U. Many of those kids did not think our coach was the best coach that offered.
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What an utter fraud.
 


builtbadgers said:
There are coaches that would have been able to get several of those suburban kids to come to the U. Many of those kids did not think our coach was the best coach that offered.
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I'm sure some coaches could, I'm just stating points besides the coach. There is and can be more to it. Number 1 on the list of course is the coach and state of the program.
 

manderson1984 said:
I'm sure some coaches could, I'm just stating points besides the coach. There is and can be more to it. Number 1 on the list of course is the coach and state of the program.
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You make points that may in fact be factors. I am much more concerned with how we are built, how our guys and team are coached then who we recruit. We out recruit a ton of schools that win a great deal more than we do.
 

Veritas said:
Is the average street corner near the U as safe as the average street corner in Eagan? No. Is it as safe as the average street corner near UW? I don't know.
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If a kid wants to grow up in Eagan, he should stay there and be sheltered.
 





Looking back at the Tubby years, he really brought in a lot of talent, and his blind resume is no doubt better than Pitino's. It's a shame, we were in a good spot to keep that momentum building from the Tubby era. I was ready for Tubby to go, but it was expecting to make that next jump until Norwood botched the hiring process. 7(soon to be 8) years later we're back! A legit AD, with an extra year to prepare for the hiring. I'm excited for it.

It is tough leading up to this year though. Hard to get into it with all this talk going on. Always a gopher fan but my expectations are so low and it's tough to go into a year where the coach is gonna be gone after the year, in mine and many of our opinions around here and Minnesota. Lessons in patience and trying not to make assumptions.
 
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manderson1984 said:
I've stated this numerous times, but the urban university isn't always a draw for suburban white kids. It's a big reason why we need to get over losing kids from the metro.
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Sorry that is not the reason we are losing kids from Minnesota to other schools. We didn't lose kids like this before Pitino....and if we hire the right coach we won't lose them like this when he is gone. Is St. Thomas an "urban" school? Seems like there are all kinds of suburban white kids there. Do the African American Minnesota kids not like going to an urban school? Because it seems to me we miss on a majority of them too...
 



EsteGuey said:
As someone who knows two current UW players, I have heard that the state of the Gopher basketball program and the lack of interest from Pitino and co until it was too late were the main factors in leaving home. Both would have been major contributors here.
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If the two players you know were high school teammates....we missed on a third one from that school earlier....if we would have had the right coach at the U we would have probably gotten all three of them. If Davison was one of them, I think we offered him the day before he committed to the Badgers. I think that says a lot.
 

skiumah1 said:
Looking back at the Tubby years, he really brought in a lot of talent, and his blind resume is no doubt better than Pitino's. It's a shame, we were in a good spot to keep that momentum building from the Tubby era. I was ready for Tubby to go, but it was expecting to make that next jump until Norwood botched the hiring process. 7(soon to be 8) years later we're back! A legit AD, with an extra year to prepare for the hiring. I'm excited for it.

It is tough leading up to this year though. Hard to get into it with all this talk going on. Always a gopher fan but my expectations are so low and it's tough to go into a year where the coach is gonna be gone after the year, in mine and many of our opinions around here and Minnesota. Lessons in patience and trying not to make assumptions.
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He was better than Pitino....he had three bad breaks in his six years. The Royce White situation, Al Nolen getting hurt and Trevor Mbakwe getting hurt. Before Pitino came to the U, I can only think of a few kids we really lost out of Minnesota. Khalid El Amin (UConn), Cole Aldrich (Kansas), Alan Anderson (Michigan State) and maybe Darius Lane (Pitt). Now we lose whole classes and we are the only division 1 team within three or four hours of the Twin Cities.
 

When I was growing up, Wisconsin was hardly ever better than the Gophers. And that's in anything...including the Packers....and I'm not that old. Now Iowa, they were better than Minnesota at everything.

I went to the Penn State game this year and looked up and the upper deck was empty. The Barn and Gopher basketball used to be the hottest ticket in town. Now...there is so much apathy and no one cares....except for the people who post on this board.
 

MplsGopher said:
It's clear that he has put you on ignore. Why do you feel the need to keep making this posts?
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The guy is an absolute fraud. Period. Some still want to lap it up. Posting a contrasting pos.
 

ethomasp31 said:
If the two players you know were high school teammates....we missed on a third one from that school earlier....if we would have had the right coach at the U we would have probably gotten all three of them. If Davison was one of them, I think we offered him the day before he committed to the Badgers. I think that says a lot.
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You can have Davison. I want no part of his ilk on MN Gophers.
 

BarnBurner said:
The guy is an absolute fraud. Period. Some still want to lap it up. Posting a contrasting pos.
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Your opinion on him is clear, and you’re of course entitled to your opinion. But at this point, those posts aren’t accomplishing anything except taking away from the thread.
 

ethomasp31 said:
Sorry that is not the reason we are losing kids from Minnesota to other schools. We didn't lose kids like this before Pitino....and if we hire the right coach we won't lose them like this when he is gone. Is St. Thomas an "urban" school? Seems like there are all kinds of suburban white kids there. Do the African American Minnesota kids not like going to an urban school? Because it seems to me we miss on a majority of them too...
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It's part of it. I've heard it be said. Go look at the kids we have gotten from MN. The majority did not go to outer right suburban high schools regardless of race. Now do I think it's the number one reason why? Of course not and I've said that as well. I'm just saying it's more of a factor than many think it is.

St. Thomas is a different animal because it's private. It will be interesting to see where their recruiting footprint is.

Lastly, and this also regards to your other posts. In the last 10 years, the recruiting game has changed dramatically. More AAU and travel allows kids to be more transient and they are. Most schools miss out on local kids. Royce White himself said he was going to Minnesota no matter what on a podcast with Doug Gottlieb a couple months ago. That type of loyalty hardly exists with most of these kids now. They pick what they feel is the best situation and many choose to leave regardless anyways. Our focus in recruiting should be about getting the best guys who fit what we want to do period. Doesn't matter where they are from.
 

manderson1984 said:
St. Thomas is a different animal because it's private.
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Not just that, but its physical location has a great deal to do with it.

It's a (relatively) small campus, plopped down right in the middle of a very affluent neighborhood in St Paul, that isn't nearly as easily accessible by public transportation.

Literally any person, with zero dollars in their pocket, can hop on a light rail, without paying for it, and ride into the heart of the U campus.
 

MplsGopher said:
Not just that, but its physical location has a great deal to do with it.

It's a (relatively) small campus, plopped down right in the middle of a very affluent neighborhood in St Paul, that isn't nearly as easily accessible by public transportation.

Literally any person, with zero dollars in their pocket, can hop on a light rail, without paying for it, and ride into the heart of the U campus.
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You're kidding me right, not sure what the difference in neighborhoods between St Thomas and the U is, Prospect Park is such a downtrodden area, St Anthony and Main area, must be drug deals going down on every corner, my college house in that terrible area was upgraded and now runs in the 500k to a million range. It's a short run from St Thomas to the U and back, did it for 20 years every day, not much difference in those neighborhoods. The 21 and 63 bus routes still run thru the heart of the St Thomas, and yeah burgluries still happen, got robbed a couple of times over the years while living a stones throw from St Thomas.

The difference is there is more traffic at the U which makes certain crimes easier to perpetrate, not sure a 19 year old male would give a crap about that though.
 

jovs said:
You're kidding me right, not sure what the difference in neighborhoods between St Thomas and the U is, Prospect Park is such a downtrodden area, St Anthony and Main area, must be drug deals going down on every corner, my college house in that terrible area was upgraded and now runs in the 500k to a million range. It's a short run from St Thomas to the U and back, did it for 20 years every day, not much difference in those neighborhoods. The 21 and 63 bus routes still run thru the heart of the St Thomas, and yeah burgluries still happen, got robbed a couple of times over the years while living a stones throw from St Thomas.

The difference is there is more traffic at the U which makes certain crimes easier to perpetrate, not sure a 19 year old male would give a crap about that though.
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I'm only talking about on-campus and immediately adjacent to campus.

Look at some of the homes on Mississippi River Blvd, say between Marshall and St Clair. That's what I'm talking about. Quite a bit different than Como.

And it's about 3mi along the river between the two. Not the same neighborhood.


You make good points. I was just trying to provide some perspective that there is still a pretty substantial difference.
 

I would say as far as the campus, the U of M is an urban campus - in the middle of a major metropolitan area. It is not a "college" setting like you get at one of the smaller communities.

Some recruits might like being in the middle of the big city. But other recruits may prefer the setting where the campus is in a smaller community and there is more of a traditional college feel.

I am not saying that Madison, WI or Iowa City IA is a better or nicer place to live compared to Mpls. But in Madison or Iowa city, the College campus is the center of the community - literally and figuratively.

The U of M campus is not the center of the community in Mpls/St. Paul.
 

skiumah1 said:
Looking back at the Tubby years, he really brought in a lot of talent, and his blind resume is no doubt better than Pitino's. It's a shame, we were in a good spot to keep that momentum building from the Tubby era. I was ready for Tubby to go, but it was expecting to make that next jump until Norwood botched the hiring process. 7(soon to be 8) years later we're back! A legit AD, with an extra year to prepare for the hiring. I'm excited for it.

It is tough leading up to this year though. Hard to get into it with all this talk going on. Always a gopher fan but my expectations are so low and it's tough to go into a year where the coach is gonna be gone after the year, in mine and many of our opinions around here and Minnesota. Lessons in patience and trying not to make assumptions.
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100%.
ethomasp31 said:
If the two players you know were high school teammates....we missed on a third one from that school earlier....if we would have had the right coach at the U we would have probably gotten all three of them. If Davison was one of them, I think we offered him the day before he committed to the Badgers. I think that says a lot.
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I know the older one of those teammates and a very unpopular Wisco guard. We would have 100% been able to land the senior North guy with someone other than Pitino, he was just waiting for any sort of attention from Minnesota's staff but none came. And had we pressed for the guard the way Gard and Stanford had, I think we would have been able to land him too. After that class I knew Pitino was not a quality recruiter or roster manager. And now we're seeing him lose entire classes to other programs. Not fun.
 

manderson1984 said:
It's part of it. I've heard it be said. Go look at the kids we have gotten from MN. The majority did not go to outer right suburban high schools regardless of race. Now do I think it's the number one reason why? Of course not and I've said that as well. I'm just saying it's more of a factor than many think it is.

St. Thomas is a different animal because it's private. It will be interesting to see where their recruiting footprint is.

Lastly, and this also regards to your other posts. In the last 10 years, the recruiting game has changed dramatically. More AAU and travel allows kids to be more transient and they are. Most schools miss out on local kids. Royce White himself said he was going to Minnesota no matter what on a podcast with Doug Gottlieb a couple months ago. That type of loyalty hardly exists with most of these kids now. They pick what they feel is the best situation and many choose to leave regardless anyways. Our focus in recruiting should be about getting the best guys who fit what we want to do period. Doesn't matter where they are from.
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The problem with the bolded point is that when you don't get Macura or recruit him well, it hurts your chances with Reuvers and Wahl. When you pick Isaiah Washington instead of McKinley Wright....it hurts you with multiple other recruits. The high school coaches in Minnesota are not fans of Pitino or the program at the U right now. That's a bigger reason we aren't getting the kids in the outer rings of the metro area than the urban setting of the U.
 

EsteGuey said:
100%.


I know the older one of those teammates and a very unpopular Wisco guard. We would have 100% been able to land the senior North guy with someone other than Pitino, he was just waiting for any sort of attention from Minnesota's staff but none came. And had we pressed for the guard the way Gard and Stanford had, I think we would have been able to land him too. After that class I knew Pitino was not a quality recruiter or roster manager. And now we're seeing him lose entire classes to other programs. Not fun.
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We had two scholarships open and we took Washington and Harris. You are 100% right Davison was prioritized behind Wright and Washington and Harris (whether it was a good assessment is a fair discussion). That was a rare year. The year after we picked up Gabe, Daniel, and Jarvis.
 

ethomasp31 said:
The problem with the bolded point is that when you don't get Macura or recruit him well, it hurts your chances with Reuvers and Wahl. When you pick Isaiah Washington instead of McKinley Wright....it hurts you with multiple other recruits. The high school coaches in Minnesota are not fans of Pitino or the program at the U right now. That's a bigger reason we aren't getting the kids in the outer rings of the metro area than the urban setting of the U.
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Macura was on Tubby. Pitino wasn't hired until too late to really get involved, but he did offer pretty soon after he got the job. By then Macura had other relationships developed. I get your point with HS coaches in this state, it was the same with Tubby and Monson too. At some point who's fault is it?

The one real "what if" would've been had we chose to take Wright over Washington (very few would've at the time if you looked at offers/rankings at the time) from the get go and maybe D1 MN would get over themselves, but I doubt it. Fact is kids move on and chose what they feel is best for them. If they really feel how a school recruited McKinley or Davison was poor and it affects their decision than so be it, but if they think it's different for them they would still choose here.

MN HS and AAU coaches can also get over themselves bit. They didn't like Monson and were convinced Tubby was great and then they turned on him, and then they liked Pitino at first, but now have turned. At some point there is a common denominator effect there
 


manderson1984 said:
We had two scholarships open and we took Washington and Harris. You are 100% right Davison was prioritized behind Wright and Washington and Harris (whether it was a good assessment is a fair discussion). That was a rare year. The year after we picked up Gabe, Daniel, and Jarvis.
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And the next two years after that we have struck out on every single 24/7 rated MN recruit. Two years in a row, 0/15. You can't tell me the home state B1G university is so unpalatable that we lose an entire roster of recruits to other programs, including mid-majors. Not that we should be targeting every single semi talented recruit out of Minnesota, but it is telling that we can't land a single one across two classes. The anecdotes I have and the results on the floor tell me Pitino and how he has managed this program are the problem, unfortunately.
 
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