Fleck

[howeda7]

Don't see a point here.



I'm not the one whining about how we need to blow things up and start from square one. That's an emotionally charged stance one someone (you) who needs to be burped and then put down for a nap by mommy.

The people arguing we should fire a coach that is on short lists for better jobs and who we just signed to a 7 year contract are the ones being emotional. There is zero chance of that happening. Zero. So demanding it or even pining for it is just foolishness.

He needs to stop being so stubborn/loyal and bench both Sanford and Morgan and also make sure they both move on after the season.

 

[howeda7]

The no kickoff or punt returns absolutely kills me. That in itself is such a “not to lose” mentality.

I don't get so many people being upset at this. On kick-offs, when they are returned, on average they don't make it back to the 25. Unless you have a dynamic return guy, taking the 25 yard line is the right play.

On the punts, job #1 is to not screw it up. We have no muffs or turnovers this year. There are times he lets it go when he should at least fair catch it, and times he fair catches when he could get 5-10 yards. But as long as he does job 1, I'm not complaining.

 

[Some guy]

Ferentz literally didn't try to score when they were up 2 with 2 minutes left. If that's not proof of his conservative nature I don't know what is.

Yeah.
Like, if they score a touchdown they are up 9 and the game is over. If they don’t get it we have zero timeouts and 38 seconds to go 99 yards.

they kick a field goal.

 

[Some guy]

The people arguing we should fire a coach that is on short lists for better jobs and who we just signed to a 7 year contract are the ones being emotional. There is zero chance of that happening. Zero. So demanding it or even pining for it is just foolishness.

He needs to stop being so stubborn/loyal and bench both Sanford and Morgan and also make sure they both move on after the season.

I HOPE we have a plan. With the current wideout talent the scheme and QB isn’t good enough. Need to upgrade WR, QB, or play selection. Probably could get by doing just 2 of those 3.

 

[skiumah1]

I don't get so many people being upset at this. On kick-offs, when they are returned, on average they don't make it back to the 25. Unless you have a dynamic return guy, taking the 25 yard line is the right play.

On the punts, job #1 is to not screw it up. We have no muffs or turnovers this year. There are times he lets it go when he should at least fair catch it, and times he fair catches when he could get 5-10 yards. But as long as he does job 1, I'm not complaining.

If you catch the ball at the 5+ yard line on a KO return, you've gotta return it IMO. The mentality of let's not turn this over just isn't ideal to me.

It's probably not the worst if you have a dynamic offense that you're just trying to hand the ball too. But our offense isn't all that great.

I really like Bucky or CAB taking back kicks especially with their athleticism and those are the guys that have been back there.

 

[Johnnyboy18]

Yeah.
Like, if they score a touchdown they are up 9 and the game is over. If they don’t get it we have zero timeouts and 38 seconds to go 99 yards.

they kick a field goal.

I wasn't referring to the 4th down. They literally ran two QB sneaks in a row and didn't attempt to score on 1st and 2nd down.

 

[goldengophers]

Fleck said it again on KFAN this morning with PA that he basically just wants points and have the game come down to the last possession. How about we go for it and actually put some pressure on the other teams.

But isn't evidence proving him wrong on this strategy against Iowa and Wisconsin? I don't get it, we don't need to be a Big XII offense but we can certainly be marginally more agressive.

 

[Some guy]

I wasn't referring to the 4th down. They literally ran two QB sneaks in a row and didn't attempt to score on 1st and 2nd down.

Yeah. It was an odd series. It was like a touchdown wins the game and they tried not to score one.

Maybe they thought they were winning by 1 not 2.
It would’ve been a lot more logical series of events if they were up 1 not 2

 

[Some guy]

But isn't evidence proving him wrong on this strategy against Iowa and Wisconsin? I don't get it, we don't need to be a Big XII offense but we can certainly be marginally more agressive.

I mean Iowa has won big ten titles and Ohio state won a national title in 2003 running that strategy.

there is more than one way to skin a cat.
I would prefer we win the game.


I think the strategy also costs us by making us play close games against Fresno, South Dakota state, Miami of Ohio, Fresno, Illinois.


sometimes you win (auburn, Penn State, Fresno)
Sometimes you lose (Iowa, Illinois, bowling green)



it’s actually pretty odd we have as many blowout wins in conference play as we do with the way we play.

 

[howeda7]

Fleck said it again on KFAN this morning with PA that he basically just wants points and have the game come down to the last possession. How about we go for it and actually put some pressure on the other teams.

Even Zimmer seemed to get that stubborn idea out of his head yesterday. Vikings went for it on 4th down. Scored a TD. If they kick a FG there, the Chargers are down only 7 in the 4th quarter and go for the tie.

And when we had the ball with a chance to drain the clock, we let Cousins throw, even on 3rd and 20. I think in past games we run Cook up the gut for 3 yards and punt. If Zimmer can see the light, PJ should be able to.

 

[goldengophers]

I mean Iowa has won big ten titles and Ohio state won a national title in 2003 running that strategy.

there is more than one way to skin a cat.
I would prefer we win the game.


I think the strategy also costs us by making us play close games against Fresno, South Dakota state, Miami of Ohio, Fresno, Illinois.


sometimes you win (auburn, Penn State, Fresno)
Sometimes you lose (Iowa, Illinois, bowling green)



it’s actually pretty odd we have as many blowout wins in conference play as we do with the way we play.

I've always said trying to beat them at their own game is recipe to be below the 50/50 threshold against Wisconsin and Iowa, which it has proven to be time and again.

 

[mnvballdad]

I mean Iowa has won big ten titles and Ohio state won a national title in 2003 running that strategy.

there is more than one way to skin a cat.
I would prefer we win the game.


I think the strategy also costs us by making us play close games against Fresno, South Dakota state, Miami of Ohio, Fresno, Illinois.


sometimes you win (auburn, Penn State, Fresno)
Sometimes you lose (Iowa, Illinois, bowling green)



it’s actually pretty odd we have as many blowout wins in conference play as we do with the way we play.

Comparing college football in 2021 to 2003 is like comparing 2003 to 1960. The game has evolved so much in the past 15 years that it is impossible to win a national title if you don't have a dynamic offense. Impossible.

So if the goal is to compete for division titles, a running game and good defense can accomplish that. But if you actually want to win the conference and make the CFP you're going to have to score, and score and score some more.

 

[fair]

I often find myself comparing PJ to Matt Campbell at ISU. At the “eye test” level, I feel like they’ve had very similar resumes thus far. Both had successful seasons (MN 2019, ISU 2020). Both are touted for recruiting and culture. Neither can get over the hump with rivals (Campbell has never beaten Iowa, and even struggles with Northern Iowa).

ISU comparatively has had a more disappointing season than MN if you consider their expectations coming in. For people hitting the panic button on Fleck, do you also look at ISU and say they should blow things up there? I’d think the vast majority of people would say no.

 

[goldengophers]

I often find myself comparing PJ to Matt Campbell at ISU. At the “eye test” level, I feel like they’ve had very similar resumes thus far. Both had successful seasons (MN 2019, ISU 2020). Both are touted for recruiting and culture. Neither can get over the hump with rivals (Campbell has never beaten Iowa, and even struggles with Northern Iowa).

ISU comparatively has had a more disappointing season than MN if you consider their expectations coming in. For people hitting the panic button on Fleck, do you also look at ISU and say they should blow things up there? I’d think the vast majority of people would say no.

I pay no attention to ISU. I compare with Iowa and Wisconsin.

 

[Some guy]

I've always said trying to beat them at their own game is recipe to be below the 50/50 threshold against Wisconsin and Iowa, which it has proven to be time and again.

I mean playing wisconsin and Iowa with inferior talent is also a recipe for losing below the 50/50 Threshold

iowas wideouts made more plays. Minnesota d backs missed more tackles and blew more coverages.
Iowas QB made the plays easier to make for the Iowa wideouts than Minnesota did
And that was the difference in the game.

I often find myself comparing PJ to Matt Campbell at ISU. At the “eye test” level, I feel like they’ve had very similar resumes thus far. Both had successful seasons (MN 2019, ISU 2020). Both are touted for recruiting and culture. Neither can get over the hump with rivals (Campbell has never beaten Iowa, and even struggles with Northern Iowa).

ISU comparatively has had a more disappointing season than MN if you consider their expectations coming in. For people hitting the panic button on Fleck, do you also look at ISU and say they should blow things up there? I’d think the vast majority of people would say no.

I HOPE they blow it up.
Very valid comparison.

It is hard to win
-nick Saban Saturday postgame


it is hard to win.
It is hard to win consistently
It is harder to win against good teams
It is extremely hard to win against good teams consistently

List of teams to play in big ten title games:
Ohio state 6 (5-1)
Wisconsin 6 (2-4) last win in 2012 in a year when they got 3rd in their division but top 2 were suspended
Michigan state 3 (2-1) none since 2015
Northwestern 2 (0-2)
Penn state 1 (1-0) 2016
Nebraska 1 (0-1) 2012
Iowa 1 (0-1) 2015

In 20 appearances just 8 have gone to non Ohio state wisconsin. We are trying to be as good as Iowa. Even if we were, Iowa has one appearance in 10 years. Gopher fans on this board would be calling for ferentz’s job and their OCs job too. And maybe rightfully so. He doesn’t beat wisconsin enough to lose to Ohio state in the title game.




people like to say that it’s easier in the big ten now.


But coaches today can’t go to the rose bowl going 8-4 and being in a 3 way (joe tiller) tie for first…they’d have to go play a top 2 team in the conference to win it
They can’t split conference title like northwestern did in 1996 (when they didn’t play Ohio state and shared a title with them)
Or 2004 Iowa who split with Michigan despite losing to them.
or 2002 Iowa who split with Ohio state without having to play them.
Or 1998 wisconsin rose bowl team who 3 way ties with Ohio state and Michigan despite missing Ohio state and losing to Michigan.
Or 1993 wisconsin who two way ties with Ohio state by tying them.
Or 40% of the conference winning a big ten title in 1990

It’s harder to win now

 

[goldengophers]

I mean playing wisconsin and Iowa with inferior talent is also a recipe for losing below the 50/50 Threshold

iowas wideouts made more plays. Minnesota d backs missed more tackles and blew more coverages.
Iowas QB made the plays easier to make for the Iowa wideouts than Minnesota did
And that was the difference in the game.

Which is why you have to play a different game and be aggressive in those key moments. The coach is the GM and should know where his talent stacks up and utilize a scheme that puts that talent in the best position. I said prior to the Fleck hire that attempting to overcome Iowa and Wisconsin via purely a power run game is a fools errand.

 

[Some guy]

Which is why you have to play a different game and be aggressive in those key moments. The coach is the GM and should know where his talent stacks up and utilize a scheme that puts that talent in the best position. I said prior to the Fleck hire that attempting to overcome Iowa and Wisconsin via purely a power run game is a fools errand.

When you play aggressive you might win.
You also might draw more attention to deficiencies.

I agree with you that the coaches are conservative this year: they are calling the game like they don’t think their team is very good. And I kind of agree that the team isn’t very good. So it’s a tough line.

we had a chance to win playing conservative. Maybe being aggressive puts us over the top.
Or maybe playing aggressive means we lose by 20 and don’t have a chance.

Clearly they made the wrong choice because they lost.

 

[goldengophers]

When you play aggressive you might win.
You also might draw more attention to deficiencies.

I agree with you that the coaches are conservative this year: they are calling the game like they don’t think their team is very good. And I kind of agree that the team isn’t very good. So it’s a tough line.

we had a chance to win playing conservative. Maybe being aggressive puts us over the top.
Or maybe playing aggressive means we lose by 20 and don’t have a chance.

Clearly they made the wrong choice because they lost.

I agree, I wonder over the long term where would a conservative power scheme put us odds wise going forward assuming Gopher talent level remains the same? Win 20-25% of Wisconsin/Iowa games?

 

[Tommyboy]

I wonder where they will be after the most experienced offensive line in the FBS graduates next year? With the mild schedule, this year was his best opportunity.

 

[Word]

I wonder where they will be after the most experienced offensive line in the FBS graduates next year? With the mild schedule, this year was his best opportunity.

I actually don't think the o-line will that much worse next year. Just a gut feeling though.

 

[Some guy]

I agree, I wonder over the long term where would a conservative power scheme put us odds wise going forward assuming Gopher talent level remains the same? Win 20-25% of Wisconsin/Iowa games?

We are at 17% our last 6 attempts

will be to 29% or 14% on our last 7 in 2 weeks