Coyle should be ashamed….

[Dakota2]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again: I've been in affirmative-action hiring environments for almost my entire career in both the public and private sectors. It's never given me a bad hiring outcome. Done well, it only makes you stronger. If Ben was hired solely because of his race, that's not the way a proper process is designed to work. Affirmative action does not equal race based. If anyone thinks that, they either have no experience with a good process or have racist bias.

And the answer is, always, if you don't believe what I say you have a racial bias.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

The skill in subtle persuasion is exactly that though.

You "force" people to do things in subtle terms and it's even better if you can get it to look like consensus.

No doubt. Reminds me of a t-shirt I saw one time in a novelty store, thought I better take a picture of it at the time;

 

[skiumah1]

If this was Craig Smith, Niko Medved, or Brian Dutcher sitting at 5-35 after 2 seasons and just lost their top commit for year 3, remarkably I would say the exact same thing I say about Ben that this is total dumpster fire.

Race does nothing for me.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

And the answer is, always, if you don't believe what I say you have a racial bias.

If that doesn't work it's about the patriarchy or colonialism. Oddly enough, I think every country on the planet is a product of colonialism.

 

[Dakota2]

I am curious how you came to this definitive conclusion?

Maybe by thinking half a minute or so?

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

If this was Craig Smith, Niko Medved, or Brian Dutcher sitting at 5-35 after 2 seasons and just lost their top commit for year 3, remarkably I would say the exact same thing I say about Ben that this is total dumpster fire.

Race does nothing for me.

100%.

I wanted Pitino canned and he was way better.

 

[skiumah1]

100%.

I wanted Pitino canned and he was way better.

Agreed - I wanted no more of Pitino.

I understand wanting to give guys time, but you can't lose this much and lose commits that are part of the building process. That's wasted time.

You can't let this staff lower the bar that much. It's a joke.

 

[Gophers_4life]

Of course not. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. It didn't work in this case. In the case of say, Jim Harbaugh, it worked very well.

Jim Harbaugh started out at non-scholarship University of San Diego. The same league Saint Thomas is now in.

 

[goldengophers]

Maybe by thinking half a minute or so?

Let's hear it, lay it out there...

 

[Gophers_4life]

If that doesn't work it's about the patriarchy or colonialism. Oddly enough, I think every country on the planet is a product of colonialism.

Quick Google:

Depending on how you define it, the only countries that were never colonies are Liberia, Ethiopia, Japan, Thailand, Bhutan, Iran, Nepal, Tonga, China, and possibly North Korea, South Korea and Mongolia. Some historians nitpick over this list.

 

[Dakota2]

Well stated. It's the use of the term and the need for certain folks to blame all of society's (and the U's) ills on "woke-ism" that's annoying.

Nobody blames all societies ills on wokeism. Only the degradation of society caused by wokeism.

 

[goldengophers]

Nobody blames all societies ills on wokeism. Only the degradation of society caused by wokeism.

Which isn't here, the only difference is the megaphone and those tuned to it. It's nothing more than a trigger point meant to distract from the true ills.

 

[Dakota2]

Let's hear it, lay it out there...

Well, this will take even more than half a minute to type but:

She was an All-American player, brought many thousands of fans to the Barn to watch women's basketball, was well known nationally in women's hoops circles and had a successful professional career. He was a decent college player who spent two years at U and then became an assistant coach.

She had fame and recognition; he didn't.

 

[cjbfbp]

The skill in subtle persuasion is exactly that though.

You "force" people to do things in subtle terms and it's even better if you can get it to look like consensus.

Aren't those qualities part of good leadership? I'm not saying they're everything!

 

[cjbfbp]

Sure, but you realize the other side feels the same way about terms like "equity" and "inclusiveness"?

You're quibbling about the terms because it lets you know the other side's argument before it starts. The other side, also doesn't feel like they get a discussion. Do you think those mandatory "inclusiveness" seminars that were rolled out at every major corporation/law firm/etc. feel like a discussion? Or do you think they felt like a lecture?

My entire point is that the terms that make your skin crawl - - whether they are "equity", "snowflake", "inclusion", or "woke" are just stand ins for the arguments you hate depending on where you stand on the issue.

Yes, I've sat through a fair number of those throughout the years and the end result is always the same. I pretty much exit those the way I entered them. I think too many white people are overly sensitive these days and always feel they are being attacked. Don't get me wrong. I am of Irish descent so I have a temper but, as Clarence Darrow once explained when discussing jury selection as a defense attorney, always select Irish persons because they are empathetic and will place themselves in the dock.

 

[Dakota2]

Which isn't here, the only difference is the megaphone and those tuned to it. It's nothing more than a trigger point meant to distract from the true ills.

There is no megaphone for common sense.

 

[Dakota2]

Aren't those qualities part of good leadership? I'm not saying they're everything!

If Ben was hired solely for recruiting, he has shown moderate success both locally and nationally given his two classes with the seven he signed.

That is now diminished by Evans changing his mind because he lost faith that things could be turned around (indicating he also doesn't believe he himself will not be good enough to make a major impact).

 

[cjbfbp]

Nine out of fourteen scholarship players from Minnesota on this team and historically bad results. Not because these kids are from MN. It's because we have a vastly inferior coach (at this point in his career) to other conference foes. A DeLaSalle address doesn't change that.

I won't dispute that the evidence to date suggests that our coach is well below average but some people need let go of the illusion that this state has a great depth of basketball talent. California, Texas, Florida, New York, and Illinois have more persons who are good at every type of human activity (with the exception of ice fishing and probably hockey - and I'm not sure about NY on that one!) than Minnesota.

 

[Dakota2]

I won't dispute that the evidence to date suggests that our coach is well below average but some people need let go of the illusion that this state has a great depth of basketball talent. California, Texas, Florida, New York, and Illinois have more persons who are good at every type of human activity (with the exception of ice fishing and probably hockey - and I'm not sure about NY on that one!) than Minnesota.

And a lot more basketball powerhouses competing for their in-state recruits.

 

[cjbfbp]

The Whalen hire was legit. Top five all time Gopher women's basketball player. Helped lead the Lynx to multiple WNBA titles. A top figure in the women's game. You would think that girls would want to come play for someone who had done it all.

No guarantee of course. Clyde Drexler was 19-39 in his two years at Houston and Patrick Ewing has been mostly terrible at Georgetown.

 

[Wet_Blanket_Guy]

Well, this will take even more than half a minute to type but:

She was an All-American player, brought many thousands of fans to the Barn to watch women's basketball, was well known nationally in women's hoops circles and had a successful professional career. He was a decent college player who spent two years at U and then became an assistant coach.

She had fame and recognition; he didn't.

Whalen = female Patrick Ewing. Ben Johnson = Ben Johnson … and for those outside of MSP , tHey are asking themselves…who the duck is Ben Johnson

 

[Mulligan]

The Whalen hire was legit. Top five all time Gopher women's basketball player. Helped lead the Lynx to multiple WNBA titles. A top figure in the women's game. You would think that girls would want to come play for someone who had done it all.

Ben was an average player on average to below average teams who was working as an assistant at a Big East school.

The only similarity between Whalen and Ben is that they are both from here and played for the Gophers. That's where it ends.

You have to take it one step further though. It was thought that both could get all of the local talents that was going elsewhere. Whalen because of her legend status and Ben because of his ties to the black basketball community. Either way, the stars were staying home.

 

[Bad Gopher]

The Whalen hire was legit. Top five all time Gopher women's basketball player. Helped lead the Lynx to multiple WNBA titles. A top figure in the women's game. You would think that girls would want to come play for someone who had done it all.

Ben was an average player on average to below average teams who was working as an assistant at a Big East school.

The only similarity between Whalen and Ben is that they are both from here and played for the Gophers. That's where it ends.

People seem to think that, if someone was a good player, they'll be a savior as a coach. How many times have I seen people here push for hiring Trent Tucker? WTF. Because he could make jump shots? Really? I don't get this.

 

[Holy Man]

It's true. We'll never know why Ben Johnson was hired. It was such an obviously awful choice that we are all left here to speculate.

If Dennis Gates gets hired, it's not the same type of thing. When Tubby was hired, it wasn't the same type of thing.

With Ben Johnson's resume, you really have two options:

(1) It was mandated; or
(2) Coyle broke from what we know about him and went out on a long limb.

Most likely, we'll never know which one it was but we all have our opinions.

No guarantee of course. Clyde Drexler was 19-39 in his two years at Houston and Patrick Ewing has been mostly terrible at Georgetown.

Good examples. No data accessible but the alma mater coaching experiments don’t work very often.

 

[Holy Man]

People seem to think that, if someone was a good player, they'll be a savior as a coach. How many times have I seen people here push for hiring Trent Tucker? WTF. Because he could make jump shots? Really? I don't get this.

We know them. That is very high priority especially here.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

FWIW - Ryan James in a new podcast said this is all about NIL. said that Evans' AAU coach was asking about NIL when he accompanied Evans on the official visit. and James said that Evans will wind up going "to the highest bidder." James thinks the AAU coach is behind a lot of this. James also said that the AAU coach thinks Henley should be getting more playing time..........

 

[Bad Gopher]

Sure, but you realize the other side feels the same way about terms like "equity" and "inclusiveness"?

You're quibbling about the terms because it lets you know the other side's argument before it starts. The other side, also doesn't feel like they get a discussion. Do you think those mandatory "inclusiveness" seminars that were rolled out at every major corporation/law firm/etc. feel like a discussion? Or do you think they felt like a lecture?

My entire point is that the terms that make your skin crawl - - whether they are "equity", "snowflake", "inclusion", or "woke" are just stand ins for the arguments you hate depending on where you stand on the issue.

I totally get where you're coming from. But here's the deal. Many if not most of the societal problems we deal with today have as their root cause that society hasn't been as equitable or inclusive as it should be. Then it's a matter of, are we really going to continue to do the same things and expecct different outcomes??

Did you see that the City of Seattle just banned discrimination on the basis of Indian Caste? My reaction to this was, how is this not the law of the land in the whole country!? Go to Utah and try to be upwardly mobile without being a Mormon. Good luck with that.

A truly even playing field would clear up so many of our problems, and sometimes you have to take action and not just hope things work themselves out by themselves over time, because you know what, sometimes they get worse by themselves.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

back to the topic of the thread:

should Coyle make some kind of a statement?

should Coyle at least come out of his bunker and show his face?

 

[Gopher73]

That's it for me folks. I am deleting Gopher sports, including the Gopher Hole from my computer. I will never watch another Gopher game or bother to read anything on Gopher Hole. I'd rather watch paint dry or sort my sock drawer. Absolutely the worst basketball I have watched in my 68 years. No more.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

That's it for me folks. I am deleting Gopher sports, including the Gopher Hole from my computer. I will never watch another Gopher game or bother to read anything on Gopher Hole. I'd rather watch paint dry or sort my sock drawer. Absolutely the worst basketball I have watched in my 68 years. No more.

Take care! You are always welcome here.