At What Point?

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salem79 said:
Tubby's Gophers are not in the national recruiting conversation.....picking up sloppy seconds, ala Glen Mason
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so a top 10 recruiting class last year isn't in the national recruiting conersation???? I love when I can prove idiots wrong, especially ones that think a loss to OSU when we play without our best player, starting pg, and our best rebounder, is going to sink the program. Tuby made the Gopher relevant in town and nationally again and you can't say anything to disprove that.
 

I am just saying that Tubby is not getting the pressure a non-"name" coach would get,and I tink that can be insidious, in creating a complacent atmosphere.

And, I am not ready to say the program is in better shape.....
 

Brew_recruit said:
so a top 10 recruiting class last year isn't in the national recruiting conersation???? I love when I can prove idiots wrong, especially ones that think making a loss to OSU when we play without our best player, starting pg, and our best rebounder. Tuby made the Gopher relevant in town and nationally again and you can't say anything to disprove that.
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Sir, Our "best rebounder" has never played a game for us? How hypothetical can you get?
 

A few thoughts:

The Big Ten was a tough conference last year and most of us knew it was going to get tougher this year as the top teams weren't losing many of their key players. Some had predicted we could have been a better team this year with the same or a slightly worse record. Do I want us to be an upper division team, sure but I'm not sure how realistic that is. From recent reports both Mbakwe and Whaite have been two of the better if not the best two players on the court in practice so yes if we had them on the court we would be a better team but we don't so we're not.

Now, I am concerned with how we have been finishing games this season. Miami, Mich St., Indiana, Northwestern, etc... I think we are something like 2-5 in games decided by 5 points or less. I think this definately has to do with coaching and play calling/setting the players up for a chance to succeed. Watching our guards try to create from 25 feet from the hoop as the play has broken down and the clock is ticking away has been maddening. I hope that we get some of that turned around but that may have to do with not having a point guard who can create on his own when the play doesn't work. Joseph has shown the ability sporadically and so has Westbrook but not consistently enough.

At this level, it's usually (not always, exhibit wisc.) the players that make the team with coaching second so with an upgrade in talent overall we should all be pleased next year, especially if C. Joseph joins the group. To compare this team to teams from the last decade is not fair as we'd be lucky to have more than one or two wins in conference at this point. I'm happy our team is relavent again and I'm looking forward to our bright future!
 

salem79 said:
I am just saying that Tubby is not getting the pressure a non-"name" coach would get,and I tink that can be insidious, in creating a complacent atmosphere.

And, I am not ready to say the program is in better shape.....
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In what way is it not better? What was our record the year before he came here? Did anyone in town give a *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# about gopher basketball before he came here? Did top recruits even know that the U was even average at basketball? Ask yourself those questions before you say that our program is not in better shape.
 


Brew_recruit said:
so a top 10 recruiting class last year isn't in the national recruiting conersation???? I love when I can prove idiots wrong, especially ones that think making a loss to OSU when we play without our best player, starting pg, and our best rebounder. Tuby made the Gopher relevant in town and nationally again and you can't say anything to disprove that.
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What good is a top 10 class when they don't get on the court? I don't blame that on Tubby fully. But he did bring in those guys, who have trouble off the court. So he has to take some of the blame for that.

But what really kills me, is watching the team. It is like pulling teeth watching them play basketball. The offense is terrible. And the defense today was non existent.

Tubby needs to put a foot in all the players butt. And he needs to do it now. If not, we are looking at not making the tournament.
 

Brew_recruit said:
In what way is it not better? What was our record the year before he came here? Did anyone in town give a *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# about gopher basketball before he came here? Did top recruits even know that the U was even average at basketball? Ask yourself those questions before you say that our program is not in better shape.
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I see the potential for a plateauing team, with a coach insulated from criticism, and that scares me....
 

salem 79, you want it both ways. You complain about his lack of recruiting, but in other posts you boast about how much talent he has. You should make up your mind.
 

Salem,
I will agree with you on this point:
Everyone is saying "if" our recruits were playing all would be different.
That is unknown. We can only "guess" how a recruit will preform at the college level.
We make those guesses based upon how they played in high school.
A GREAT NUMBER of times a recruit doesn't develop and live up to the hype that they
come into college with for whatever reason. If these guys had played for a year and proved
themselves at Div 1 level and then we lost them it would hold more water to say that
the reason we are having it tough is because we lost them. But in fact, we do not KNOW
FOR CERTAIN that this team would be one basket better if they were playing since they
have not been able to prove their worth yet.
 



salem79 said:
I am just saying that Tubby is not getting the pressure a non-"name" coach would get,and I tink that can be insidious, in creating a complacent atmosphere.

And, I am not ready to say the program is in better shape.....
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I do agree with you that we don't want to be a part of a "victory lap" by Tubby Smith

But the work he's done in building this program are evidence that he is not using MN as some kind of winding-down rest stop.

Highly ranked recruiting classes
The gophers are now known nationally for good defense at least
The pre-season ranking
Making the NCAA tournament

It boggles my mind how you can't say the program hasn't improved.

It really feels like you're over-reacting to a difficult season.
-
 

Bottom Line, I would have preferred a coach who was hungrier...as in Bruce Pearl.......not comfortable to hang out
 

Brew_recruit said:
In what way is it not better? What was our record the year before he came here? Did anyone in town give a *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# about gopher basketball before he came here? Did top recruits even know that the U was even average at basketball? Ask yourself those questions before you say that our program is not in better shape.
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Did anyne in town give a *&%#@^* about Gopher basketball before he came here?

Yes, many of us...
 




Nope, just commenting on a statement you made. Probably cared as much during the Monson years as ever ...
 

freshtrout said:
Nope, just commenting on a statement you made. Probably cared as much during the Monson years as ever ...
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Yep and if someone from out of town asked you what people here think about the t-wolves this year you would say that no one really cares about them, but there are some people who still watch them on tv and go to the games.
 


Royce White-Top 50 player in the NATION Other Notable Offers-Wiscy, Illinios, Miama(FL), Michigan State, and USC
Rodney Williams-Top 75 player in the NATION ONO-Wiscy, Iowa, Miama(FL)
D. Joseph-Top 75 ONO-Kansas, Virginia Tech, Vandy, Michigan
RSIII-Top 75 ONO-Georgia Tech,Clemson,Kentucky,and Maryland

Yes Royce has had some off the court problems, but if Tubby hadn't recruited him people like salem would be talking about how Tubby is a poor recruiter and didn't get the #1(and 5*)player in the state. And aticallihan call him a cheater all you want but he got kicked out of De LaSalle for cheating on a test. Who hasn't ever looked at someone else's paper to see if they got an answer you didn't? Everyone has cheated at some point in their lives and that's just the way the culture is now days. I don't agree with it, but it's just the way America is. Have a problem with it? Run for President and change the world, just don't bitch about it on here anticallihan.

And it's been noted that in practice Royce and Trevor are the 2 best players on the court, so that's how we know that they are 2 top players on the team. And i'll rephrase what Brew_recruit said, Outside of Season Ticket Holders/GHolers who in the state cared about Gopher hoops? Since Tubby came we get discussed in the Big Ten, and have had 2 20 win seasons.

Oh and salem one last thing. You say you want a coach who's more hungry like Bruce Pearl, well there's no way in h3ll any big named coach would come here if we still had Monson as our coach. Tubby Smith has given the University of Minnesota Basketball team National Exposure is hasn't had since Clem was our coach
 

Brew_recruit said:
Yep and if someone from out of town asked you what people here think about the t-wolves this year you would say that no one really cares about them, but there are some people who still watch them on tv and go to the games.
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Comparing the T-Wolves and the Gophers is a deal-breaker -
 

salem79 said:
Notice that Tubby is not getting truly elite recruits? He is beating mid-majors and lower bcs schools
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I ususally try to ignore trolls, but this is just so far off base it requires a response. According to Rivals:

Joseph had offers from Kansas, Michigan, St. John's, Texas A&M, Vanderbilt and Virigina Tech, and I seem to recall Texas in the mix at the end.

Sampson had offers from Clemson, Georgia Tech, Kentucky and Maryland.

Iverson had offers from Florida, Creighton, Iowa, Iowa State and Nebraska.

Cobbs had offers from USC, Colorado, Iowa and Washington State.

White had offers from Arkansas, Illinois, Iowa, Iowa State, Miami, Michigan State, USC and Wisconsin.

Williams had offers from Iowa, Miami and Wisconsin.

Eliason has offers from Creighton and Stanford.

Hollins has offers from Memphis, Arkansas and Oregon State.
 

The only legit complaint about Coach Smith's tenure would be the present underwhelming recruiting class. That goes away if he gets Devoe's little brother. It's really bad news if he strikes out with the other Joseph and next year's class is a repeat.
 

I love it when new posters come on and make over-the-top statements only to be shown that they don't have any idea about the actual facts. It makes for great entertainment. Nothing else of substance, but great entertainment nonetheless.
 

Sorry folks, the recruiting is very mediocre so far and most fans here are happy to finish in the top 64 every 2-3 years. Perfect fit for Tubby. He really has shown nothing so far other than they used to play good defense-no more.
 

davyjones said:
Sorry folks, the recruiting is very mediocre so far and most fans here are happy to finish in the top 64 every 2-3 years. Perfect fit for Tubby. He really has shown nothing so far other than they used to play good defense-no more.
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Case and point. Again, keep up the good work. :clap:
 

You don't get kicked out of school for just cheating on one test.

I'll give Tubby credit for each recuit that plays a game. More credit if they pull more than one full season. Even more credit if they stay elligible and out of the courthouse.

I am not going to Give congrats to Tubby for the best two practice players.

goldygo4 said:
Royce White-Top 50 player in the NATION Other Notable Offers-Wiscy, Illinios, Miama(FL), Michigan State, and USC
Rodney Williams-Top 75 player in the NATION ONO-Wiscy, Iowa, Miama(FL)
D. Joseph-Top 75 ONO-Kansas, Virginia Tech, Vandy, Michigan
RSIII-Top 75 ONO-Georgia Tech,Clemson,Kentucky,and Maryland

Yes Royce has had some off the court problems, but if Tubby hadn't recruited him people like salem would be talking about how Tubby is a poor recruiter and didn't get the #1(and 5*)player in the state. And aticallihan call him a cheater all you want but he got kicked out of De LaSalle for cheating on a test. Who hasn't ever looked at someone else's paper to see if they got an answer you didn't? Everyone has cheated at some point in their lives and that's just the way the culture is now days. I don't agree with it, but it's just the way America is. Have a problem with it? Run for President and change the world, just don't bitch about it on here anticallihan.

And it's been noted that in practice Royce and Trevor are the 2 best players on the court, so that's how we know that they are 2 top players on the team. And i'll rephrase what Brew_recruit said, Outside of Season Ticket Holders/GHolers who in the state cared about Gopher hoops? Since Tubby came we get discussed in the Big Ten, and have had 2 20 win seasons.

Oh and salem one last thing. You say you want a coach who's more hungry like Bruce Pearl, well there's no way in h3ll any big named coach would come here if we still had Monson as our coach. Tubby Smith has given the University of Minnesota Basketball team National Exposure is hasn't had since Clem was our coach
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gopherbadgerman said:
16-5, 6-3 B10 IMO - Wins over Indiana, MSU, and Portland.

If you can't put some of the blame on coaching, then I believe you are looking through rose colored glasses.
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I can put some of the blame on tubby but I can put more on reality, not every recruit is gonna be squeaky clean and not every starter is exempt from failing classes. things happen and coaches have bad games, if i were to prioritize my rants then blaming tubby will be a little ways down on my list, if i were gonna be realistic.
 

salem79 said:
Bottom Line, I would have preferred a coach who was hungrier...as in Bruce Pearl.......not comfortable to hang out
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Maybe your right because Bruce pearl's hunger has gun-totin, weed smokin ball players on the court already, yea we need that hunger. I have to congratulate you because this thread wouldnt have so many pages if you would've said something sensible, so I guess 5th graders are the best thread starters. Thanx for keeping it lively kid.
 


davyjones said:
Sorry folks, the recruiting is very mediocre so far and most fans here are happy to finish in the top 64 every 2-3 years. Perfect fit for Tubby. He really has shown nothing so far other than they used to play good defense-no more.
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BS and racist drivel.

Tubby has recruited Top 20 or better class in 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2008, and 2009. That's 12 of the past 14 years.

Tubby has 9 Sweet 16 finishes since 1993. Only 2 coaches - Roy Williams and Coach K - have 10 Sweet 16 in that timeframe.
 

Brew_recruit said:
so a top 10 recruiting class last year isn't in the national recruiting conersation???? I love when I can prove idiots wrong, especially ones that think a loss to OSU when we play without our best player, starting pg, and our best rebounder, is going to sink the program. Tuby made the Gopher relevant in town and nationally again and you can't say anything to disprove that.
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the only part of this that can be called true is the "starting pg" the rest is mere speculation on your part. so I doubt you proved any idiots wrong
 

Great MRJ, new posters vs old. The wisdom in your comment is so enlightening and refreshing. I hope some day when I am an old poster that I am as linear in my thinking as you are. Something to strive for.

Grading Tubby, I say incomplete. Clearly a more athletic team this year, and first in a long time. Yet can't fathom today, and other tight loss's this year. Missing a down the stretch, late game closer?

Can't understand the soft tenative passing by Blake the 1st half, why would he do that? Hasn't done that before, seemed odd. And Iverson doesn't seem to know his limitations. Sampson not standing out either. Rest of the team, just seemed desperate to find the magic. Is this coaching? Appears like it.

But he is a recruiter, and it has been just two years with two prized recruits not yet playing. That is not his fault. Would those two playing equal a noticeably different record? Maybe, who knows. And then would he be a great coach?

Next year will tell more.
 

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