All Things Alex Illikainen Recruitment Thread: UPDATED 11/12/18: Illikainen leaves UW

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station19 said:
I'm guessing I need to answer this.

As a Gopher fan I will always cheer against the team we are playing, AND teams we are competing against in the standings. There is no logical reason to cheer against anyone else. Wishing bad to someone/some team other than those is idiotic and sad. I guess it makes some people feel better about themselves.

It's a game.
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Agreed, and it's also a waste of energy.
 


station19 said:
What is the point to cheer against some team? It doesn't affect the game.

Not sure if everyone realizes this, but if you take the cumulative record of all the other games the the winning % will .500. :rolleyes:
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In concept correct, however not technically correct. When the NCAA takes away wins from a school for rules busting, the opponent doesn't get the wins, thus the all time overall winning % is less then .500.
 

station19 said:
What is the point to cheer against some team? It doesn't affect the game.
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Conversely, what is the point to cheer for some team? It doesn't affect the game any more than cheering against it does. So by that logic fans serve no purpose.
 



Every team in the big ten wants to win the big ten. Every team in the nation wants to win the national championship. To want your team to win you must hope that every other team fails. I know it seems antithetical to our modern distaste for the concept of wins and losses but fandom presupposes rooting against all others. I don't wish anybody injury. But I do not want iowa, Wisconsin, or even Idaho state technical university to succeed in their ultimate goals, because their ultimate goals conflict with the gophers' goals. Not a matter of sportsmanship in the slightest


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

jmag21 said:
Every team in the big ten wants to win the big ten. Every team in the nation wants to win the national championship. To want your team to win you must hope that every other team fails. I know it seems antithetical to our modern distaste for the concept of wins and losses but fandom presupposes rooting against all others. I don't wish anybody injury. But I do not want iowa, Wisconsin, or even Idaho state technical university to succeed in their ultimate goals, because their ultimate goals conflict with the gophers' goals. Not a matter of sportsmanship in the slightest


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Give us a call when you get back to reality.
 

station19 said:
I'm guessing I need to answer this.

As a Gopher fan I will always cheer against the team we are playing, AND teams we are competing against in the standings. There is no logical reason to cheer against anyone else. Wishing bad to someone/some team other than those is idiotic and sad. I guess it makes some people feel better about themselves.

It's a game.
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I understand your point, but put me in the group that hopes that teams like Wisconsin and Iowa lose every game, even if they aren't playing the Gophers on that given day. The primary reasons being:
1) They are considered rival schools of Minnesota...as a Gophers fan, why would you want your rival schools to win and continue to build their programs?
2) They are often Minnesota's main competition for local recruits, whether it be football or basketball...the better their programs are performing, the more likely they are going to beat Minnesota for recruits. If Wisconsin had been a perennial cellar dweller in the B1G, I highly doubt Illkainen would be so inclined to commit there. I even find myself rooting against Iowa St. recently because of this, since it seems like Hoiberg is often recruiting Minnesota HS kids as well.

Maybe you consider these schools as part of "teams we are competing against in the standings", which would make a lot more sense to me. I realize that my "cheering" isn't going to affect the actual games, but it's part of the fun in being a fan and following sports. That's what makes rivalries like Duke/UNC so great in my opinion; the passion of the fans both for their team and also against the other team at all times.
 

Richard said:
I understand your point, but put me in the group that hopes that teams like Wisconsin and Iowa lose every game, even if they aren't playing the Gophers on that given day. The primary reasons being:
1) They are considered rival schools of Minnesota...as a Gophers fan, why would you want your rival schools to win and continue to build their programs?
2) They are often Minnesota's main competition for local recruits, whether it be football or basketball...the better their programs are performing, the more likely they are going to beat Minnesota for recruits. If Wisconsin had been a perennial cellar dweller in the B1G, I highly doubt Illkainen would be so inclined to commit there. I even find myself rooting against Iowa St. recently because of this, since it seems like Hoiberg is often recruiting Minnesota HS kids as well.

Maybe you consider these schools as part of "teams we are competing against in the standings", which would make a lot more sense to me. I realize that my "cheering" isn't going to affect the actual games, but it's part of the fun in being a fan and following sports. That's what makes rivalries like Duke/UNC so great in my opinion; the passion of the fans both for their team and also against the other team at all times.
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+1000
 



Richard said:
I understand your point, but put me in the group that hopes that teams like Wisconsin and Iowa lose every game, even if they aren't playing the Gophers on that given day. The primary reasons being:
1) They are considered rival schools of Minnesota...as a Gophers fan, why would you want your rival schools to win and continue to build their programs?
2) They are often Minnesota's main competition for local recruits, whether it be football or basketball...the better their programs are performing, the more likely they are going to beat Minnesota for recruits. If Wisconsin had been a perennial cellar dweller in the B1G, I highly doubt Illkainen would be so inclined to commit there. I even find myself rooting against Iowa St. recently because of this, since it seems like Hoiberg is often recruiting Minnesota HS kids as well.

Maybe you consider these schools as part of "teams we are competing against in the standings", which would make a lot more sense to me. I realize that my "cheering" isn't going to affect the actual games, but it's part of the fun in being a fan and following sports. That's what makes rivalries like Duke/UNC so great in my opinion; the passion of the fans both for their team and also against the other team at all times.
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This is a far more eloquent way of putting what I was trying to say.
 

Top of the Key said:
As MN basketball fans, we should be PROUD that many of our players are making to the next level. I’m looking forward to watching Tyus at Duke, Reid at Stanford, and Macura at Xavier. :cool:
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Um, no. Maybe if you know the kids or their parents personally. Most of us are not fans of "Minnesota basketball generally," but Gopher fans. It doesn't help the Gophers when top local players choose elsewhere. In fact, it's a recent trend that really needs to be reversed.

As for Illikainen, sorry he did not apparently get his top choice, but it's a lesson that hopefully will resonate with other Minnesota kids in the future. You're free to go through the process and make your decision on your own time frame, but that doesn't necessarily mean the Gophers will always be there waiting for you.
 

WanderingGopher said:
Um, no. Maybe if you know the kids or their parents personally. Most of us are not fans of "Minnesota basketball generally," but Gopher fans. It doesn't help the Gophers when top local players choose elsewhere. In fact, it's a recent trend that really needs to be reversed.

As for Illikainen, sorry he did not apparently get his top choice, but it's a lesson that hopefully will resonate with other Minnesota kids in the future. You're free to go through the process and make your decision on your own time frame, but that doesn't necessarily mean the Gophers will always be there waiting for you.
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Agreed with everything posted here. I cheer for the Gophers, not Minnesota high school basketball players. Josh Martin, Nate Mason etc. will have done more for Gopher basketball than Tyus Jones, Reid Travis, JP Macura, and Rashad Vaughn.

I also disagree with kowtowing to Minnesota kids, the whole philosophy of "there will always be a scholarship open for the local kid" that some seem to advocate, because that makes the U into a fallback option for local kids who will hold out for better offers and only commit to Minnesota when other things don't pan out.
 

In the long run, our east coast pipeline is going to produce A LOT more talent than the local kids. So I don't know why some of you stress out so much about not getting every single local kid. I'm more concerned about setting up a giant east coast pipeline. That's how Rick Sr. has been successful at UK/UL. He's not worrying too much about the local KY talent, he's got a team full of east coast kids.
 



Richard said:
I understand your point, but put me in the group that hopes that teams like Wisconsin and Iowa lose every game, even if they aren't playing the Gophers on that given day. The primary reasons being:
1) They are considered rival schools of Minnesota...as a Gophers fan, why would you want your rival schools to win and continue to build their programs?
2) They are often Minnesota's main competition for local recruits, whether it be football or basketball...the better their programs are performing, the more likely they are going to beat Minnesota for recruits. If Wisconsin had been a perennial cellar dweller in the B1G, I highly doubt Illkainen would be so inclined to commit there. I even find myself rooting against Iowa St. recently because of this, since it seems like Hoiberg is often recruiting Minnesota HS kids as well.

Maybe you consider these schools as part of "teams we are competing against in the standings", which would make a lot more sense to me. I realize that my "cheering" isn't going to affect the actual games, but it's part of the fun in being a fan and following sports. That's what makes rivalries like Duke/UNC so great in my opinion; the passion of the fans both for their team and also against the other team at all times.
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And you left out the cheerleaders.......sad!
 

MadtownGopher said:
In the long run, our east coast pipeline is going to produce A LOT more talent than the local kids. So I don't know why some of you stress out so much about not getting every single local kid. I'm more concerned about setting up a giant east coast pipeline. That's how Rick Sr. has been successful at UK/UL. He's not worrying too much about the local KY talent, he's got a team full of east coast kids.
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+1 You can play, I don't give a $hit where you came from, as long as you're playing at a high level while wearing "Minnesota" across your chest._
 

MadtownGopher said:
In the long run, our east coast pipeline is going to produce A LOT more talent than the local kids. So I don't know why some of you stress out so much about not getting every single local kid. I'm more concerned about setting up a giant east coast pipeline. That's how Rick Sr. has been successful at UK/UL. He's not worrying too much about the local KY talent, he's got a team full of east coast kids.
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While I agree with you that setting up that East Coast pipeline would be very beneficial, I think that our best opportunity to land the true elite talent will remain with the local kids. We had a "chance" with Tyus, Rashad, and Reid because the Gophers were the home state, even at a time when Minnesota's basketball program was not thriving. If we can reach that next level as a program, I think our chances will turn from decent to good. That could reap rewards very soon with players like Coffey and Trent, who I think will both be very highly rated, if we can turn the corner this year and have a very successful season. While we still might have a chance with the elite East Coast kids as well, I do think there is a certain edge that the home state school will have that can't be replicated. The chances that an elite MN kid stays home seems higher to me than an elite NY kid choosing the Gophers over other blue bloods. By the way, Louisville's current roster isn't exactly filled with East Coast kids. One player from Maryland and that's about it, while there are four from Kentucky (not sure if they actually get playing time, other than Snider):

Louisville Cardinals
NO NAME POS HT WT CLASS HOMETOWN
0 Terry Rozier G 6-1 190 SO Youngstown, OH
1 Anton Gill G 6-3 190 SO Raleigh, NC
2 Quentin Snider G 6-2 180 FR Louisville, KY
3 Chris Jones G 5-10 175 SR Memphis, TN
4 Dillon Avare G 6-0 150 FR Lexington, KY
5 Matz Stockman F-C 7-0 240 FR Oslo, Norway
10 Jaylen Johnson F 6-9 215 FR Ypsilanti, MI
12 Mangok Mathiang F-C 6-10 220 SO Melbourne, VIC
14 Anas Mahmoud F 7-0 200 FR Cairo, Egypt
15 Trent Gilbert G 6-0 180 FR Georgetown, KY
21 Shaqquan Aaron G 6-7 170 FR Seattle, WA
22 Akoy Agau F 6-8 230 SO Omaha, NE
23 David Levitch G 6-3 180 SO Goshen, KY
24 Montrezl Harrell F 6-8 240 JR Tarboro, NC
25 Wayne Blackshear G-F 6-5 215 SR Chicago, IL
32 Chinanu Onuaku F-C 6-10 230 FR Lanham, MD
 

Richard said:
While I agree with you that setting up that East Coast pipeline would be very beneficial, I think that our best opportunity to land the true elite talent will remain with the local kids. We had a "chance" with Tyus, Rashad, and Reid because the Gophers were the home state, even at a time when Minnesota's basketball program was not thriving. If we can reach that next level as a program, I think our chances will turn from decent to good. That could reap rewards very soon with players like Coffey and Trent, who I think will both be very highly rated, if we can turn the corner this year and have a very successful season. While we still might have a chance with the elite East Coast kids as well, I do think there is a certain edge that the home state school will have that can't be replicated. The chances that an elite MN kid stays home seems higher to me than an elite NY kid choosing the Gophers over other blue bloods. By the way, Louisville's current roster isn't exactly filled with East Coast kids. One player from Maryland and that's about it, while there are four from Kentucky (not sure if they actually get playing time, other than Snider):
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I'm with Madtown on this one (if for no other reason than the talent pool is so much deeper). In a typical year, how many Minnesota kids are truly program changers? If you put some much emphasis on recruiting the one guy that fits that mold, it seems like you just set yourself up for disappointment. As others have pointed out, the top 25 typically don't stay home regardless.

I like the idea of "program recruiting" as somebody pointed out last year rather than trying to land the top Minnesota recruit every year. Too many other random factors play into a college decision (academics/girlfriends/weather/campus/coaches/facilities/whatever) that trump this mythical obligation to "play for the home team" that supposedly gives us an inherent advantage. I'm not saying we don't recruit the local players, but the sky shouldn't be falling because Alex Illikainen chose to play basketball somewhere else.
 




golfing18now said:
I'm with Madtown on this one (if for no other reason than the talent pool is so much deeper). In a typical year, how many Minnesota kids are truly program changers? If you put some much emphasis on recruiting the one guy that fits that mold, it seems like you just set yourself up for disappointment. As others have pointed out, the top 25 typically don't stay home regardless.

I like the idea of "program recruiting" as somebody pointed out last year rather than trying to land the top Minnesota recruit every year. Too many other random factors play into a college decision (academics/girlfriends/weather/campus/coaches/facilities/whatever) that trump this mythical obligation to "play for the home team" that supposedly gives us an inherent advantage. I'm not saying we don't recruit the local players, but the sky shouldn't be falling because Alex Illikainen chose to play basketball somewhere else.
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Ideally we get to the point where, like you said, we don't HAVE to recruit every B10 caliber MN player and only go after the ones that actually fit the system we're trying to run and are as good as or better than our options elsewhere. Traditionally it hasn't really mattered what type of player a kid is, if he's been a B10 talent (or close to it) and he's from MN then we've recruited him. Quite honestly with our need now for quick, athletic ball handling guards we're going to have to leave MN to get the majority of those types of players. In the last 5-10 years the only MN players I can think of that fit that mold are Jones, Vaughn, Jarvis, Nolen, maaayybe Jordair Jett and.... who else? We don't produce a ton of guards around here, at least not enough to stock the cupboards with a roster full of 5-6 of them every year
 

I would be nice to have a culture in MN where the elite players WANT to come here...........might even have a better chance to land them.

Then again some feel we don't need them.
 

MadtownGopher said:
In the long run, our east coast pipeline is going to produce A LOT more talent than the local kids. So I don't know why some of you stress out so much about not getting every single local kid. I'm more concerned about setting up a giant east coast pipeline. That's how Rick Sr. has been successful at UK/UL. He's not worrying too much about the local KY talent, he's got a team full of east coast kids.
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Louisville is in the top 11 in national titles, tourney appearances, tourney wins, Final 4s, wins, and winning percentage. They have 3 times as many tourney wins in the 2010s as the Gophers have all time. I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect that just picking up their recruiting strategy and applying it to Minnesota will be successful.

Regardless, no one is stressing out over losing Alex I. People just think he would have been a good addition to the team.
 

golfing18now said:
I'm with Madtown on this one (if for no other reason than the talent pool is so much deeper). In a typical year, how many Minnesota kids are truly program changers? If you put some much emphasis on recruiting the one guy that fits that mold, it seems like you just set yourself up for disappointment. As others have pointed out, the top 25 typically don't stay home regardless.

I like the idea of "program recruiting" as somebody pointed out last year rather than trying to land the top Minnesota recruit every year. Too many other random factors play into a college decision (academics/girlfriends/weather/campus/coaches/facilities/whatever) that trump this mythical obligation to "play for the home team" that supposedly gives us an inherent advantage. I'm not saying we don't recruit the local players, but the sky shouldn't be falling because Alex Illikainen chose to play basketball somewhere else.
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I wasn't referring to Illikainen in my previous post. Personally, I don't consider him an elite recruit and I have no complaints on how the Gophers handled their 2015 recruiting class. I was referring to more of the top 40 range recruits. At this stage in the program, I think the only way Minnesota lands a player like that is by someone choosing to stay home. Minnesota doesn't have enough equity built up yet where they can just pluck away top 40 recruits from other states in my opinion. By no means did I mean the Gophers should only recruit the MN kids in any given year. I just think more recruiting effort should be put in on a Minnesota kid ranked #20 compared to a New York kid ranked #20 because our odds are increased due to the chance a kid might want to play for the home state. If the staff gets a hint the recruit doesn't have that interest, move on to the next guy.

For players outside the top 40ish range, I agree that the Gophers should absolutely target the best players that fit their system regardless of whether they are from Minnesota or not. That's where a recruiting pipeline becomes more beneficial in my opinion, regardless of whether its east coast, west coast, certain prep schools, etc.
 

He's gone. I don't understand why you dudes keep talking about him.
 


Dr.Don said:
He's gone. I don't understand why you dudes keep talking about him.
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Because it's interesting. Because it's a message board. Because it sheds light on recruiting in general, which is always a fascinating subject. Is there a better topic regarding Gopher basketball that we should be discussing instead?
 



Gold Vision said:
He's a 2/3 isn't he?
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It was well documented that his old man was looking for a program that used "big" point guards and he wanted Amir to play the point in college. My reference was a weak attempt at non emoticon sarcasm.

In most of the real world, he probably is a 2 or 3.
 

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