Tubby Bashers

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It's simple.

Extreme Negativity BREEDS a counter balance, hence extreme positivity.

And the reality is that the bashers and critics usually draw first blood.

Hey, maybe way too many of us were way too high on the Gophers early on, but is that really such a bad thing? Does it honestly offend people or hurt people or piss people off when some one or some team gets too much praise? It may be frustrating, but it will rarely lead a person to anger. More often than not, the person in the know feels sorry for the homer with his blinders on.


BUT, people going overboard in their efforts to bash a person or a team, and in this instance, Tubby, inspires people who otherwise would probably be willing to criticize Tubby themselves, to feel a desire to defend Tubby, and to present counter arguments to put up against the arguments of the so-called Tubby Haters. They take offense, it pisses them off, they get angry and it stirs up emotional responses.

The so-called Tubby "Haters", probably don't actually hate him, just as the so-called Tubby "Lovers" don't actually love him.

But when things get dicey in here, its 99% the critics faults. I'm not saying 99% of critics are at fault, I'm saying that 99% of the time, its ONE certain critic who starts the ball rolling, then the other side responses, with an emotional response, which frustrates the critic who started the whole thing, and other critics who don't understand how everyone can't see what they see, so they respond and SOME of those responses are more emotional than others, and contain comments that fire up the other side and then things get out of hand.



IF all of the Tubby supporters left the site, the Tubby critics would keep on criticizing Tubby. But if all of the Tubby critics left the site, well, you'd be surprised how many of those so-called Tubby Lovers would end up changing their tune. But my guess is that their criticism of Tubby wouldn't fire people up to defend him the way SOME of the current critics are so good at doing.

I, personally, in my opinion, think that its the critics fault. Not all of them, just the careless ones.


I don't think things will change here at the GH, until the critics tone down their messages.

Both sides think they are right and so righteous in their actions. But there is a "right" way to criticize, a CONSTRUCTIVE way to criticize, and then a "wrong" way to do it. The wrong way inspires people to want to find a counter argument. The right way inspires people to consider the validity of the criticism.
 

scher215 said:
Frankly I hate all this pro-tubby anti-tubby whatever crap. I am pro- gophers and will support any player or coach who is a Gopher until the time when they or their boss decides it's time to move on.

Go gophers excellent win tonight!!!
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GophersInIowa said:
I wish some people on here could understand these two points:

1. Just because you criticize Tubby doesn't automatically mean you're anti-Tubby and think the struggles are all his fault.
2. Just because you defend Tubby doesn't automatically mean you're pro-Tubby and think none of the struggles are his fault.

Of course there are a few posters who are extreme but a majority of people are somewhere in the middle.
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This is why I listed you two as a couple of my favorite posters in the recent Gopherhole survey.

Gophers09 said:
IDK of any video unless you can record a replay overnight or something. Obviously it's relatively close as block/charges tend to be. My opinion is same as tikited that he was still sliding when Austin took off and definitely leaning away from the basket toward Austin when the contact occurred. Official called charge because he was outside the circle.
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I've even heard a couple of Badger fans say they were happy to get the call, but thought it was incorrect. I couldn't see it as it was on the opposite end of the court from the band and the basket was kind of obstructing my view.

I've also heard criticisms of adding the circle into the game because officials get too caught up in seeing where a defenders feet are, rather than if they are set or just getting in the way of a shooter, and make the wrong call because of it.
 


tikited said:
I don't want to start a new thread, so I'll ask this here. I was pretending to listen intently to my wife's recap of her day at the sushi restaurant tonight, all while imagining what was going on with the game, so I only got to really watch the last two minutes of regulation and the entire OT. Was it a well handled game turnover wise? It seemed so from what was said by the moron announcers. I checked the recap on my phone and it listed only 18 total turnovers. I assume we hung on to the ball pretty well?
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When the score's 58-53 including an OT there's not many balls to turnover. It was excruciating to watch Ted & I wouldn't say we held onto the ball well regardless of the stats. We got the ball stripped, got out hustled for rebounds, charged into the lane wildly to hand them the ball back, etc. all night. Mostly though we settled for jumpers that we didn't hit (again) the entire first half & then forced it into the paint in the 2nd half despite it not working. We couldn't get down low to save our lives. Trevor was mostly ineffective down low. Things got so bad that Tubby intentionally called on EE in the post 3-4 times tonight. Honestly that wasn't a bad idea imo. EE didn't hit the shots tonight but he had position & his form looks good. I also liked that Tubby attacked the basket to start the OT getting the ball down low to Trevor the first 2-3 times which opened things up for Dre who FINALLY started to hit shots. It was ugly but we played our best down the stretch & snatched a win from them after they'd led the whole game. A win against Wisconsin is a win against Wisconsin!
 


My new message, short and sweet -

If your critical post inspires an emotionally charged rebuttal, it was probably written quickly and not reflected upon before it was posted.


Think of the greatest writers in history, they could write criticism in a way that inspired the reader to consider the validity of the criticism.


So critics of Tubby, I challenge you to inspire me and others who do not actively bash Tubby, to consider the validity of your criticism.


The best way to get me to do that, is well, THINK how a Tubby supporter would respond to what you have written, before you click the Post Quick Reply button. If you think what you are posting is going to piss people off, then you are not going to do any good. You are basically wasting your time, unless you are an immature person who gets a kick out of pissing people off and riling them up?!

Go back and change whatever phrase or sentence you think would piss them off, and simply rephrase it. TONE DOWN your message. And your efforts and time may actually pay off, someone may actually read what you wrote and accept your message and let it affect their way of thinking.

And before you respond by calling me condescending, remember, I'm only addressing those who do not already know this, or who, because of their emotions being in charge, simply need to be reminded of this. I've been partially to blame as well, so I'm reminding myself as much as I'm addressing anyone else.


Lets simply try to be civil towards each other.
 

#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat said:
My new message, short and sweet -

If your critical post inspires an emotionally charged rebuttal, it was probably written quickly and not reflected upon before it was posted.


Think of the greatest writers in history, they could write criticism in a way that inspired the reader to consider the validity of the criticism.


So critics of Tubby, I challenge you to inspire me and others who do not actively bash Tubby, to consider the validity of your criticism.


The best way to get me to do that, is well, THINK how a Tubby supporter would respond to what you have written, before you click the Post Quick Reply button. If you think what you are posting is going to piss people off, then you are not going to do any good. You are basically wasting your time, unless you are an immature person who gets a kick out of pissing people off and riling them up?!

Go back and change whatever phrase or sentence you think would piss them off, and simply rephrase it. TONE DOWN your message. And your efforts and time may actually pay off, someone may actually read what you wrote and accept your message and let it affect their way of thinking.

And before you respond by calling me condescending, remember, I'm only addressing those who do not already know this, or who, because of their emotions being in charge, simply need to be reminded of this. I've been partially to blame as well, so I'm reminding myself as much as I'm addressing anyone else.


Lets simply try to be civil towards each other.
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Just curious #1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat, do you write professionally?
 

GoodasGold --

No, I do not write professionally. Always hated English class. My writing skills have always been lacking, but I try not to make it worse by posting my thoughts without reading over them at least once before posting them, but sometimes I've let my emotions get the best of me. It happens, its sports, we all get emotional. But if we all tried to avoid letting our emotions influence what we post, things would settle down here.
 

#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat said:
But if we all tried to avoid letting our emotions influence what we post, things would settle down here.
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If I had a dollar for every time that I've hit "Cancel" instead of "Post Quick Reply" I could buy, well, maybe a couple of cups of coffee. As extreme as some of the posts are on this board (both ways), the good and bad of boards like this is the ability for fans (or trolls) to immediately express their emotions. We could go all night on crap like this, but I agree with the sentiment in many other posts tonight, that as fans of the program, maybe we should place more emphasis on how the program moves forward rather than placing bets in the latest pissing match.
 



Rankings of team's we've lost to

vs #1 Duke - RPI
@ #1 Indiana - Sagarin
vs #4 Michigan - Sagarin
@ #5 Mich St - RPI
@ #13 Wisconsin - Sagarin & Ken-Pom - BY ONE POINT!!!
vs #28 Illinois - RPI

@ #76 Nrthwstrn - Sagarin - so not a bad loss according to Sagarin or Ken-Pom(#85) ratings


But if we accept that the NW loss was a bad loss, but that EVERY SINGLE TEAM IN THE COUNTRY almost, has a bad loss, then we ONLY have one bad loss. When you consider how well those other 6 teams are ranked, and that 3 of the games were road losses, I'm just having a harder and harder time being down about things right now.

And sure, the NCAA Selection Committee looks at the RPI and not the Ken-Pom or the Sagarin Ratings, or at least not that I've heard? Maybe they look at them when considering the last 4 in and the last 4 out? Why bother with those for all the other teams?! But why those rankings DO matter is because the Sagarin and the Ken-Pom ratings are probably more indicative of how good a team really is.



Now, as for teams we've beaten?!


vs #5 MSU - RPI
vs #13 Wisconsin - Sagarin & Ken-Pom
vs #24 Memphis - RPI
@ #28 Illinois - RPI
vs #39 Iowa - Sagarin
vs #45 Stanford - Ken-Pom
@ #63 Florida St - RPI
vs #67 N Dak St - Ken-Pom
vs #73 S Dak St - RPI
vs #76 Nrthwstrn - Sagarin
@ #82 Southern Cal - Ken-Pom
vs #84 Richmond - RPI
vs #96 Tenn St - RPI
vs #101 Nebraska - RPI


Looking at it that way, we are

3-5 vs Top 25
6-6 vs Top 50
9-6 vs Top 75
14-7 vs Top 101


And we have remaining on our schedule

@ #39 Iowa - Sagarin
@ #11 OSU - Ken-Pom
vs #1 Indiana - Sagarin

all to give us a few more chances for signature wins, and ZERO bad losses.

Closest thing to the potential for a bad losses would be

vs #170 Penn St - Sagarin - RPI is #203
@ #102 Nebraska - RPI - Ken-Pom is #147
@ #77 Purdue - Sagarin - RPI is #127.
 

#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat said:
Rankings of team's we've lost to

vs #1 Duke - RPI
@ #1 Indiana - Sagarin
vs #4 Michigan - Sagarin
@ #5 Mich St - RPI
@ #13 Wisconsin - Sagarin & Ken-Pom - BY ONE POINT!!!
vs #28 Illinois - RPI

@ #76 Nrthwstrn - Sagarin - so not a bad loss according to Sagarin or Ken-Pom(#85) ratings


But if we accept that the NW loss was a bad loss, but that EVERY SINGLE TEAM IN THE COUNTRY almost, has a bad loss, then we ONLY have one bad loss. When you consider how well those other 6 teams are ranked, and that 3 of the games were road losses, I'm just having a harder and harder time being down about things right now.

And sure, the NCAA Selection Committee looks at the RPI and not the Ken-Pom or the Sagarin Ratings, or at least not that I've heard? Maybe they look at them when considering the last 4 in and the last 4 out? Why bother with those for all the other teams?! But why those rankings DO matter is because the Sagarin and the Ken-Pom ratings are probably more indicative of how good a team really is.



Now, as for teams we've beaten?!


vs #5 MSU - RPI
vs #13 Wisconsin - Sagarin & Ken-Pom
vs #24 Memphis - RPI
@ #28 Illinois - RPI
vs #39 Iowa - Sagarin
vs #45 Stanford - Ken-Pom
@ #63 Florida St - RPI
vs #67 N Dak St - Ken-Pom
vs #73 S Dak St - RPI
vs #76 Nrthwstrn - Sagarin
@ #82 Southern Cal - Ken-Pom
vs #84 Richmond - RPI
vs #96 Tenn St - RPI
vs #101 Nebraska - RPI


Looking at it that way, we are

3-5 vs Top 25
6-6 vs Top 50
9-6 vs Top 75
14-7 vs Top 101


And we have remaining on our schedule

@ #39 Iowa - Sagarin
@ #11 OSU - Ken-Pom
vs #1 Indiana - Sagarin

all to give us a few more chances for signature wins, and ZERO bad losses.

Closest thing to the potential for a bad losses would be

vs #170 Penn St - Sagarin - RPI is #203
@ #102 Nebraska - RPI - Ken-Pom is #147
@ #77 Purdue - Sagarin - RPI is #127.
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You're sounding more and more like Friend of Tubby.
 

Tubby's 2 1/2 year B1G record is 18 -30, thats 37.5% win rate, if you aren't critical of Tubby you aren't a fan in my book.
 

It's all about recruiting. This season almost certainly needed to be a strong decisive one for the home team. A solid run up to the big dance and at least a sweet sixteen showing might alure the best recruiting class to minnsota in over 20 years. Tyus has commented more then once about wanting to play with Jahil Okafor. It seems apparent that they will sign together so adding perhaps the best center and the best point gaurd in the coutry along with Rashad the best shooter in the 2014 class instantly raises everyons hopes here in Gopher land. Tubby knows this . Teague knows this. And I am sure that Tyus and Rashad know this. However a sub par big ten season and an early exit from the dance would be a huge mountainl to over come in landing Tyus and all that will probably come wth him.

Now, some would say that with no practice facility, or recent past history of being a dominent force that landng such a class is almost impossible. However, that is exactly why Tubby was brought here in the first place. One always has to remember that bigtime programs such as Duke or Michagan State were mere mortals before Coach K and Coach Izzo made them as dominent as they are now. For Tubby... The time is now to bring this program up to the Big Time or move aside and let the process take place to hopefully find the next oaching legend.
 



station --

I am a friend of the University of Minnesota.


All I'm doing is posted the facts. You do with them what you want.


Sagarin rankings of Big Ten teams


#1 Indiana
#4 Michigan
#7 Mich St
#12 Ohio St
#13 Wisconsin
#15 Minnesota

#36 Illinois
#39 Iowa



If at the beginning of the season someone would have said that the Big Ten was going to have SIX teams ranked in the Top 15, and EIGHT teams ranked in the Top 40 of the Sagarin and Ken-Pom ratings, and that we'd be in 6th in the Conf vs that contingent after the MEAT of our schedule, would anyone have complained?!
 


And looking at those Sagarin Ratings, think about it this way

We have at least splits with teams ranked #7, #13, #36 & #76. We are 3-1 at home, 1-3 on the road vs those 4.

And we're 0-3 vs Top 5 rated teams. Hardly surprising. 1 road game, 1 neutral court and 1 home game.

We have a shot tomorrow at getting our first sweep. But a loss, as much as all the Tubby Haters are trying to make it out to be, wouldn't be a bad loss, or the end of the world, or a reason to fire Tubby.

Not predicting a loss @OSU, but odds will be in OSU's favor and the win would probably get OSU into the Top 10 of the Sagarin Ratings. So then we'd be 1-5 vs Top 10 Sagarin Rated teams.


After the OSU game, I guarantee our SOS ranking will be #1 again.
 

# this on so and so rankings. # that on such and such rankings. I only go my my rankings because I am rank. I am the standard by which all rankings are ranked.
 

Blackhammer said:
Tubby critics would love to see us win sixteen in a row ,get a new practice building, and get the big three recruits and give Tubby a lifetime deal. Just because people are sick of the results doesn't mean your a hater.
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Your car.

You're nice.

Practice it.
 

tinyarch said:
I'll cancel out Koolaid Don's comment and agree with you. We went to OT, at home, against a team that we should be significantly better than given the senior leadership and athletic superiority that we have. Much of our struggles are coaching related, not player related. This win tonight still doesn't take away from the glaring coaching deficiencies. For example, when Tubby called a timeout near the end of regulation when we had 8 seconds left on the shot clock, I told my wife that Tubby and his staff would have a hard time drawing up a play to get a player an open look. I said they'd end up heaving up a prayer at the last tick before the clock went off. Sure enough...that's exactly what happened. We won tonight. Great! That doesn't mean we out-coached Bo.
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Tinyarch...you don't know what you are talking about. Wisconsin has senior leaders on their team also. Berggren, Evans, and Bruesewitz are all seniors. Brust is a junior. Sam Dekker is a higher rated recruit than anyone the Gophers have landed in years!!!! Possibly Humphries, but if not him you might have to go back to Darryl Mitchell. You act like the Gophers have one of the top talented teams in the conference. Not even close. I got a kick out of one of the young guys on ESPN1500 who had Myron Metcalf on their show. He asked Metcalf where he ranked the talent of the Gophers starting lineup in the B1G. He was thinking Metcalf was going to say in the top 2 or 3, but Metcalf said, "Probably 6th, 7th or 8th. Possibly top half." The Gophers aren't one of the most talented teams like you seem to keep saying. Wisconsin is a very good team and has beaten Michigan and Indiana. You act like they aren't talented because they have a bunch of white guys and the only reason Wisconsin wins any games is because of their coach. This is a message for you and others like you. Let the year play out and stop calling for the coach to be fired after every loss. Dr. Don has it right...Tubby is the coach and he and the team have my support until someone decides he is no longer the coach. That's what fans do. They don't give up on a year when the team still has a very realistic chance to make the Sweet 16 and possibly go further. You over react to every loss and make it seem the Gophers should have zero losses this year.
 

ethomasp31 said:
Tinyarch...you don't know what you are talking about. Wisconsin has senior leaders on their team also. Berggren, Evans, and Bruesewitz are all seniors. Brust is a junior. Sam Dekker is a higher rated recruit than anyone the Gophers have landed in years!!!! Possibly Humphries, but if not him you might have to go back to Darryl Mitchell. You act like the Gophers have one of the top talented teams in the conference. Not even close. I got a kick out of one of the young guys on ESPN1500 who had Myron Metcalf on their show. He asked Metcalf where he ranked the talent of the Gophers starting lineup in the B1G. He was thinking Metcalf was going to say in the top 2 or 3, but Metcalf said, "Probably 6th, 7th or 8th. Possibly top half." The Gophers aren't one of the most talented teams like you seem to keep saying. Wisconsin is a very good team and has beaten Michigan and Indiana. You act like they aren't talented because they have a bunch of white guys and the only reason Wisconsin wins any games is because of their coach. This is a message for you and others like you. Let the year play out and stop calling for the coach to be fired after every loss. Dr. Don has it right...Tubby is the coach and he and the team have my support until someone decides he is no longer the coach. That's what fans do. They don't give up on a year when the team still has a very realistic chance to make the Sweet 16 and possibly go further. You over react to every loss and make it seem the Gophers should have zero losses this year.
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Well said, very very well said. Completely agree.
 

ethomasp31 said:
Tinyarch...you don't know what you are talking about. Wisconsin has senior leaders on their team also. Berggren, Evans, and Bruesewitz are all seniors. Brust is a junior. Sam Dekker is a higher rated recruit than anyone the Gophers have landed in years!!!! Possibly Humphries, but if not him you might have to go back to Darryl Mitchell. You act like the Gophers have one of the top talented teams in the conference. Not even close. I got a kick out of one of the young guys on ESPN1500 who had Myron Metcalf on their show. He asked Metcalf where he ranked the talent of the Gophers starting lineup in the B1G. He was thinking Metcalf was going to say in the top 2 or 3, but Metcalf said, "Probably 6th, 7th or 8th. Possibly top half." The Gophers aren't one of the most talented teams like you seem to keep saying. Wisconsin is a very good team and has beaten Michigan and Indiana. You act like they aren't talented because they have a bunch of white guys and the only reason Wisconsin wins any games is because of their coach. This is a message for you and others like you. Let the year play out and stop calling for the coach to be fired after every loss. Dr. Don has it right...Tubby is the coach and he and the team have my support until someone decides he is no longer the coach. That's what fans do. They don't give up on a year when the team still has a very realistic chance to make the Sweet 16 and possibly go further. You over react to every loss and make it seem the Gophers should have zero losses this year.
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The Gophers are much more athletic than the Badgers. There is no one on the Badger team that matches Mbakwe and Williams for athleticism and both our guys are seniors. Tubby recruits athletes while Bo recruits basketball players. The problem at Minnesota is not with the players, however, you do make my point that there is a recruiting problem. I read on another thread about how Bill Self recruits kids with offensive skills because it's easier to teach them defense than it is to build up their offensive skills. I completely agree with Self, yet it seems that Tubby doesn't value offensive skill sets as much as he just wants athletes. I disagree with Tubby's philosophy. Second, and I'll ask this for the third or fourth time, what player at Minnesota has significantly improved their game under Coach Smith in the four years they've played at the U?

My reaction isn't just to a loss during this season. I have 6 years of watching Coach Smith's teams implode upon themselves and run an anemic offensive set. I'd say I've been very patient with Coach Smith. Also, if I were the only person noticing this then you'd have a legitimate point. However, the majority of people on the GH are pointing out the very same things that I am pointing out. You are in the minority on the GH.

There is a big difference between supporting Gopher basketball/players and being critical of the coach. I always root for the Gophers as a team. I get very frustrated with consistently poor coaching and a 6 year tract record of consistently poor coaching. Etho, you can have it your way, that's fine, but don't expect everyone on the GH to follow you.

We can both agree that we want to see the kids be successful.
 

tinyarch said:
The Gophers are much more athletic than the Badgers. There is no one on the Badger team that matches Mbakwe and Williams for athleticism and both our guys are seniors. Tubby recruits athletes while Bo recruits basketball players. The problem at Minnesota is not with the players, however, you do make my point that there is a recruiting problem. I read on another thread about how Bill Self recruits kids with offensive skills because it's easier to teach them defense than it is to build up their offensive skills. I completely agree with Self, yet it seems that Tubby doesn't value offensive skill sets as much as he just wants athletes. I disagree with Tubby's philosophy. Second, and I'll ask this for the third or fourth time, what player at Minnesota has significantly improved their game under Coach Smith in the four years they've played at the U?

My reaction isn't just to a loss during this season. I have 6 years of watching Coach Smith's teams implode upon themselves and run an anemic offensive set. I'd say I've been very patient with Coach Smith. Also, if I were the only person noticing this then you'd have a legitimate point. However, the majority of people on the GH are pointing out the very same things that I am pointing out. You are in the minority on the GH.

There is a big difference between supporting Gopher basketball/players and being critical of the coach. I always root for the Gophers as a team. I get very frustrated with consistently poor coaching and a 6 year tract record of consistently poor coaching. Etho, you can have it your way, that's fine, but don't expect everyone on the GH to follow you.

We can both agree that we want to see the kids be successful.
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True dat. The Gophs are physically dominant compared to the Badgers, but they didn't assert their physical dominance in either game. The closest they came to it was when, late in the other night's game, they lobbed it over the top to Rodney for what became a fairly uncontested stuff. That kind of thing is available a lot of the time. And yes, it's not as easy as it looks and isn't available as often as it might seem. But attempting it is still more effective than 34 seconds of dribbling and a desperation heave.
 

Two years ago the Gophers imploded as you say because Al Nolen got injured and they lost almost every game after that. They were 16-4 and 5-3 in the B1G when he got hurt. They had beaten North Carolina earlier that year and if not for that injury, they would have made the tournament. Last year Mbakwe got hurt when they were undefeated and they struggled after that. Those injuries and not Tubby Smiths coaching is the reason they struggled down the stretch. This year we are two-thirds of the way though the B1G and our RPI is #14, we've played the 3rd hardest SOS and if the season ended right now we would probably be a 5th or 6th seed in the tourney. We are 18-7 so far this year...what do you think our record would be if Tubby was a good coach? I'm really interested in knowing that from you. Because I get the impression that you think we should be 21-3 and ranked #1 in the country.

As far as players improving, I'd say improving I'd say Mbakwe, Williams and both Hollins have all improved significantly while they have been here. Austin Hollins has improved as much as any Gopher I can remember. Maverick and EE have also improved drastically. As far as your point on the offense. I will agree with you that he hasn't recruited great shooters. I knew from watching Coleman and Williams in high school that the transition would have it's ups and downs because they couldn't shoot well from the outside. If Coleman and Williams could shoot, this team might be 21-3 and ranked #1 in the country right now. And please stop comparing the recruits we are able to get at Minnesota to the recruits Bill Self is able to get at Kansas. You are comparing apples to oranges...Kansas is able to get a top 25 recruiting class every year...the Gophers get a top 25 recruiting class once a decade. Yeah I know...that is probably Tubby's fault also and has been for the last 30 years.
 

tinyarch said:
I'll cancel out Koolaid Don's comment and agree with you. We went to OT, at home, against a team that we should be significantly better than given the senior leadership and athletic superiority that we have. Much of our struggles are coaching related, not player related. This win tonight still doesn't take away from the glaring coaching deficiencies. For example, when Tubby called a timeout near the end of regulation when we had 8 seconds left on the shot clock, I told my wife that Tubby and his staff would have a hard time drawing up a play to get a player an open look. I said they'd end up heaving up a prayer at the last tick before the clock went off. Sure enough...that's exactly what happened. We won tonight. Great! That doesn't mean we out-coached Bo.
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Coaching mastermind Bo Ryan's offense didn't score a field goal for nearly 11 minutes from about 6 minutes left in regulation until 10 seconds left in overtime. I would imagine you'd be tearing a Tubby a new one for an offensive stretch like that.
 

The honeymoon was short lived. A must win and Tubby's game plan once again is outmatched in the B1G. The gophers didn't win against Wisconsin, Wisconsin gave it to them. What a shame.
 


How bad was a loss on the road to Iowa?!


Prediction. Iowa finishes up with at least a 9-9 conf record, but I'm thinking actually 10-8. Their Sagarin Rating rises from #39 into the Top 30, and their RPI rating improves and gets into the 60's, maybe better?!. With a winning conf record, an incredible Sagarin Rating, a 21-10 overall record, they will only have to win one or two games in the BTT to get into the NCAA tournament.

That should give the Big Ten 8 teams.
 

ethomasp31 said:
Two years ago the Gophers imploded as you say because Al Nolen got injured and they lost almost every game after that. They were 16-4 and 5-3 in the B1G when he got hurt. They had beaten North Carolina earlier that year and if not for that injury, they would have made the tournament. Last year Mbakwe got hurt when they were undefeated and they struggled after that. Those injuries and not Tubby Smiths coaching is the reason they struggled down the stretch. This year we are two-thirds of the way though the B1G and our RPI is #14, we've played the 3rd hardest SOS and if the season ended right now we would probably be a 5th or 6th seed in the tourney. We are 18-7 so far this year...what do you think our record would be if Tubby was a good coach? I'm really interested in knowing that from you. Because I get the impression that you think we should be 21-3 and ranked #1 in the country.

As far as players improving, I'd say improving I'd say Mbakwe, Williams and both Hollins have all improved significantly while they have been here. Austin Hollins has improved as much as any Gopher I can remember. Maverick and EE have also improved drastically. As far as your point on the offense. I will agree with you that he hasn't recruited great shooters. I knew from watching Coleman and Williams in high school that the transition would have it's ups and downs because they couldn't shoot well from the outside. If Coleman and Williams could shoot, this team might be 21-3 and ranked #1 in the country right now. And please stop comparing the recruits we are able to get at Minnesota to the recruits Bill Self is able to get at Kansas. You are comparing apples to oranges...Kansas is able to get a top 25 recruiting class every year...the Gophers get a top 25 recruiting class once a decade. Yeah I know...that is probably Tubby's fault also and has been for the last 30 years.

perfectly stated!!!
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#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat said:
How bad was a loss on the road to Iowa?!


Prediction. Iowa finishes up with at least a 9-9 conf record, but I'm thinking actually 10-8. Their Sagarin Rating rises from #39 into the Top 30, and their RPI rating improves and gets into the 60's, maybe better?!. With a winning conf record, an incredible Sagarin Rating, a 21-10 overall record, they will only have to win one or two games in the BTT to get into the NCAA tournament.

That should give the Big Ten 8 teams.
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I think its a mistake to always go back and look at the numbers when defending Tubby. I agree that this team on paper is likely performing exactly as we would have expected them to. However, the problem is the game isn't played on paper.

I own a business, if ANY of my managers had employees that made the mistakes Tubby's "employees" make, they wouldn't work for me. A true test of a good manager is whether or not he can correct the mistakes of his people, Tubby has proven he is incapable of doing so.

I had a much longer post crafted, but it comes down to the above. We've seen the same product for 6 years, it's time for a change, he cannot make improvements to this program. Knowing that, we must either identify if we are ok with a 20 win team that finishes in the lower half of the B1G every year, or is Minneapolis a big enough market to expect a couple title runs here and there?
 

ethomasp31 said:
Two years ago the Gophers imploded as you say because Al Nolen got injured and they lost almost every game after that. They were 16-4 and 5-3 in the B1G when he got hurt. They had beaten North Carolina earlier that year and if not for that injury, they would have made the tournament. Last year Mbakwe got hurt when they were undefeated and they struggled after that. Those injuries and not Tubby Smiths coaching is the reason they struggled down the stretch. This year we are two-thirds of the way though the B1G and our RPI is #14, we've played the 3rd hardest SOS and if the season ended right now we would probably be a 5th or 6th seed in the tourney. We are 18-7 so far this year...what do you think our record would be if Tubby was a good coach? I'm really interested in knowing that from you. Because I get the impression that you think we should be 21-3 and ranked #1 in the country.

As far as players improving, I'd say improving I'd say Mbakwe, Williams and both Hollins have all improved significantly while they have been here. Austin Hollins has improved as much as any Gopher I can remember. Maverick and EE have also improved drastically. As far as your point on the offense. I will agree with you that he hasn't recruited great shooters. I knew from watching Coleman and Williams in high school that the transition would have it's ups and downs because they couldn't shoot well from the outside. If Coleman and Williams could shoot, this team might be 21-3 and ranked #1 in the country right now. And please stop comparing the recruits we are able to get at Minnesota to the recruits Bill Self is able to get at Kansas. You are comparing apples to oranges...Kansas is able to get a top 25 recruiting class every year...the Gophers get a top 25 recruiting class once a decade. Yeah I know...that is probably Tubby's fault also and has been for the last 30 years.
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So - we haven't had any serious injuries this year and we have still imploded. So what makes you think we would not have imploded last year or the year before without the injuries? The fact is that this is year 6 and Tubby is either the unluckiest guy on the face of the earth or he's just not a very good coach any more. 6th place and a .500 record is his high water mark and we are $12 million into this debacle.

Maverick has improved his jump shot. As a player - other than that- I see nothing that says this is improved. Williams had some sort of late season spurt last year but otherwise just has not improved. Austin Hollins is the biggest improvement guy and Damien Johnson before him. Andre was a great shooter coming here, all you need to do is let him go and find spots for him to shoot it. He's gotten a bit better but he looks lost in the offense right now and is not driving at all like he was late last year.

So- have players improved? In some cases yes. Has the team play improved over time? Certainly not. It's an annual event that we start hot and as the coaching sets in we get worse. Last year we got hot at NIT time. Wonderful.
Nobody here is expecting number one in the country. But nobody here expects to see what we have in the past 10 games either. We have not looked well coached in any of them. Wisconsin was a game we played hard in. That's it.
 

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