Time to be honest with ourselves...

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StudentSectionMenace

StudentSectionMenace

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Fleck has taken us to another level. Our recruiting has dramatically improved and winning 9 games a season would have been a dream to us back in 2009. However, today was another example of how we have platued as a program. I am not saying that we are ever going to be a national championship contender, but I do believe that we can be a consistant top 25 team with the occasional NY6 bowl game berth, similar to what Wisconsin and Iowa have been the last 15 years. Fleck continues to blow winnable games with his overly conservative play calling and lack of development of offensive players. How many offensive skill players have actually progressed during their time as a Gopher under Fleck? Tanner regressed, CRAB regressed, BSF regressed, Athan has regressed, just to name a few. Despite on paper having the most talented offense we have ever had (6 4-stars who start) our offense does not even rank within the top 100 scoring or total offense in the entire NCAA. With the new Big Ten coming we need a change to be able to compete. But what is that change? Personally I think it is time to move on from Fleck. I am not a Fleck hater, I have defended him the past couple years, but he has not learned or progessed himself the past few years. He continues to make the same mistakes he always has and is stuck in his ways. It would be different if he learned from his mistakes, but that hasn't happened yet. I do think Fleck has all the potential in the world, but I doubt he'll ever realize that potential at Minnesota.

*edited to fix grammatical error*
 
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StudentSectionMenace said:
Fleck has taken us to another level. Our recruiting has dramatically improved and winning 9 games a season would have been a dream to us back in 2009. However, today was another example of how we have platued as a program. I am not saying that we are ever going to be a national championship contender, but I do believe that we can be a consistant top 25 team with the occasional NY6 bowl game berth, similar to what Wisconsin and Iowa have been the last 15 years. Fleck continues to blow winnable games with his overly conservative play calling and lack of development of offensive players. How many offensive skill players have actually progressed during their time as a Gopher under Fleck? Tanner regressed, CRAB regressed, BSF regressed, Athan has regressed, just to name a few. Despite on paper having the most talented offense we have ever had (6 4-stars who start) our offense does not even rank within the top 100 scoring or total offense in the entire NCAA. With the new Big Ten coming we need a change to be able to compete. But what is that change? Personally I think it is time to move on from Fleck. I am not a Fleck hater, I have defended him the past couple years, but he has not learned or progessed himself the past few years. He continues to make the same mistakes he always has and is stuck in his ways. It would be different if he learned from his mistakes, but that hasn't happened yet. I do think Fleck has all the potential in the world, but I doubt he'll ever realize that potential at Minnesota.

*edited to fix grammatical error*
Click to expand...

So after paying Fleck’s buyout who is the upgrade you’re planning to hire?
 

If I’m Coyle and I like what Fleck does for the program and University, I sit him down and say you’re done with any significant raises and we’re investing in an OC and his offense.

Fleck is a CEO and needs to change his best. Time for him to get someone to lead the offense. Fleck can still have a great culture and recruit the hell out if it.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
If I’m Coyle and I like what Fleck does for the program and University, I sit him down and say you’re done with any significant raises and we’re investing in an OC and his offense.

Fleck is a CEO and needs to change his best. Time for him to get someone to lead the offense. Fleck can still have a great culture and recruit the hell out if it.
Click to expand...
This is the way.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
So after paying Fleck’s buyout who is the upgrade you’re planning to hire?
Click to expand...
yeah, the buyout is a problem and realistically the U won’t be willing to pay it and pay for a quality coach. Next year is such a pivotal year for the program, we really need someone who can fully utilize the talent on this roster.
 


StudentSectionMenace said:
Fleck has taken us to another level. Our recruiting has dramatically improved and winning 9 games a season would have been a dream to us back in 2009. However, today was another example of how we have platued as a program. I am not saying that we are ever going to be a national championship contender, but I do believe that we can be a consistant top 25 team with the occasional NY6 bowl game berth, similar to what Wisconsin and Iowa have been the last 15 years. Fleck continues to blow winnable games with his overly conservative play calling and lack of development of offensive players. How many offensive skill players have actually progressed during their time as a Gopher under Fleck? Tanner regressed, CRAB regressed, BSF regressed, Athan has regressed, just to name a few. Despite on paper having the most talented offense we have ever had (6 4-stars who start) our offense does not even rank within the top 100 scoring or total offense in the entire NCAA. With the new Big Ten coming we need a change to be able to compete. But what is that change? Personally I think it is time to move on from Fleck. I am not a Fleck hater, I have defended him the past couple years, but he has not learned or progessed himself the past few years. He continues to make the same mistakes he always has and is stuck in his ways. It would be different if he learned from his mistakes, but that hasn't happened yet. I do think Fleck has all the potential in the world, but I doubt he'll ever realize that potential at Minnesota.

*edited to fix grammatical error*
Click to expand...
Only two problems with your assessment:

The program talent level in 2023 has the Gophers at 12th in the Big 10 the same as it was in 2017.

Fleck isn't going anywhere unless Coyle pulls the coils out from under the turf and takes his "talents" elsewhere OR a real scandal comes to light.

Fleck is the same coach today he was 7 years ago, and that is not a very good coach.

He seems to be a good person. He seems to have a strong belief in his philosophy and getting kids to buy into it.

2019 was a mirage, but that doesn't change the fact it happened. He had one of the best records a Minnesota coach has ever had.

If you look at what happened to get him there, the current results aren't a surprise except this time the back-up QB carried the other team forward vs cratered.
 

caliGopher said:
Only two problems with your assessment:

The program talent level in 2023 has the Gophers at 12th in the Big 10 the same as it was in 2017.

Fleck isn't going anywhere unless Coyle pulls the coils out from under the turf and takes his "talents" elsewhere OR a real scandal comes to light.

Fleck is the same coach today he was 7 years ago, and that is not a very good coach.

He seems to be a good person. He seems to have a strong belief in his philosophy and getting kids to buy into it.

2019 was a mirage, but that doesn't change the fact it happened. He had one of the best records a Minnesota coach has ever had.

If you look at what happened to get him there, the current results aren't a surprise except this time the back-up QB carried the other team forward vs cratered.
Click to expand...
I would argue that without Fleck we’d be ranked even worse than 12th. Regardless, I also know that Fleck isn’t going anywhere for the next year, but the point of the post was that we have plateaued as a program and we won’t take the next step until we move on from Fleck.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
If I’m Coyle and I like what Fleck does for the program and University, I sit him down and say you’re done with any significant raises and we’re investing in an OC and his offense.

Fleck is a CEO and needs to change his best. Time for him to get someone to lead the offense. Fleck can still have a great culture and recruit the hell out if it.
Click to expand...
Agree with this strongly
 




UpAndUnder43 said:
So after paying Fleck’s buyout who is the upgrade you’re planning to hire?
Click to expand...
Such an worn out argument..."we have to stick with Fleck because there is no one in the world better who would come here!" I would argue that recruiting and players are better with Fleck, but coaching was much better in the previous regime. The same old pathetic preparation, in-game coaching and excuses have grown stale. Time for a change.
 

Fleck is not going anywhere and he’s fine. I think Coyle loves him.

Realistically to think we have never won the west with how bad it’s been over Fleck’s years, you’d think the seat would be getting warmer.

Or we’re all just burnt out. Or I am at least. The Fleck era has become so disappointing.
 





MaxyJR1 said:
If I’m Coyle and I like what Fleck does for the program and University, I sit him down and say you’re done with any significant raises and we’re investing in an OC and his offense.

Fleck is a CEO and needs to change his best. Time for him to get someone to lead the offense. Fleck can still have a great culture and recruit the hell out if it.
Click to expand...
Here is my belief with this thought process AND a reason it has NOT happened, the hiring of a solid OC.

Fleck has said this many times and I firmly believe it, but people think it's only for players wanting to play for him, but I think it's for coaches as well.

FLECK IS NOT FOR EVERYONE

I don't think a big time coach wants to coach under Fleck due to his control of not only their play calling, but their philosophies and how aggressive they can be. I don't think these guys have FULL control of what they do. Fleck is a CEO but he's a hands on CEO.

I don't think Fleck is able to hire a solid OC just because of the way he is. Obviously just my opinion but what the guy demands of his players, you can bet he's demanding much of the same from his staff. Why do you think Kirk C. left, came back, and then left again after a year.

I wanted to yell at the TV today when they played for the FG right before half again versus trying to get a TD. I thought at the time, here we go again and they will more than likely need these points later...
 




Instead of running down the clock every play to win the TOP (then lose the game), how about using that time to run extra offensive plays, gain momentum and win the game? The offense should always be on the attack, always looking to score, never sitting on a lead, rarely running the clock down. PJ doesn't see it that way - but he could. That would mean giving up his style of game, hiring a daring and imaginative OC, making better use of the talent he has. I don't think he can do that.
 



Tlsbhansen said:
Such a worn out argument..."we have to stick with Fleck because there is no one in the world better who would come here!" I would argue that recruiting and players are better with Fleck, but coaching was much better in the previous regime. The same old pathetic preparation, in-game coaching and excuses have grown stale. Time for a change.
Click to expand...
Lol you just fail to remember the triple shift Michigan loss
 

Tlsbhansen said:
Such an worn out argument..."we have to stick with Fleck because there is no one in the world better who would come here!" I would argue that recruiting and players are better with Fleck, but coaching was much better in the previous regime. The same old pathetic preparation, in-game coaching and excuses have grown stale. Time for a change.
Click to expand...

You didn’t answer the question.
 




Great Plains Gopher said:
Instead of running down the clock every play to win the TOP (then lose the game), how about using that time to run extra offensive plays, gain momentum and win the game? The offense should always be on the attack, always looking to score, never sitting on a lead, rarely running the clock down. PJ doesn't see it that way - but he could. That would mean giving up his style of game, hiring a daring and imaginative OC, making better use of the talent he has. I don't think he can do that.
Click to expand...
He won’t do that. He is dumb and does not learn a lesson.

He did get a nice facelift though and has some sweet capri pants.
 

BleedGopher said:
You should go to literally any message board of a team that is perceived higher in the national pecking order than us. People have no idea how tame our fan base is compared to most.

Go Gophers!!
Click to expand...
I’d imagine there are many fan boards lighting up today looking at some of these scores.
 

DanvilleGopher said:
Here is my belief with this thought process AND a reason it has NOT happened, the hiring of a solid OC.

Fleck has said this many times and I firmly believe it, but people think it's only for players wanting to play for him, but I think it's for coaches as well.

FLECK IS NOT FOR EVERYONE

I don't think a big time coach wants to coach under Fleck due to his control of not only their play calling, but their philosophies and how aggressive they can be. I don't think these guys have FULL control of what they do. Fleck is a CEO but he's a hands on CEO.

I don't think Fleck is able to hire a solid OC just because of the way he is. Obviously just my opinion but what the guy demands of his players, you can bet he's demanding much of the same from his staff. Why do you think Kirk C. left, came back, and then left again after a year.

I wanted to yell at the TV today when they played for the FG right before half again versus trying to get a TD. I thought at the time, here we go again and they will more than likely need these points later...
Click to expand...
I have to wonder if this ever gets asked by someone in the room during the weekly film/game planning staff meeting.

"Hey PJ, do you think we should be a little more aggressive in this spot? Would it help us be more successful within the structure of the game?"

The assistants must see these things over and over again and wonder.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
If I’m Coyle and I like what Fleck does for the program and University, I sit him down and say you’re done with any significant raises and we’re investing in an OC and his offense.

Fleck is a CEO and needs to change his best. Time for him to get someone to lead the offense. Fleck can still have a great culture and recruit the hell out if it.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Free Matt Simon. Or bring in somebody else. Maybe the OC at Montana or Kansas? Something needs to change.
 

Well, the University won’t be needing to build that third level deck on Bank Stadium anytime soon.
 

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