Syracuse fans reacting to Minnesota fans reacting to playing Syracuse

^ The biggest thing is going to be the first round. That's #5vs#12, #6vs#11, and so on, and located at the higher seed's home stadium.

So that's four brand new games that appear out of thin air that weren't there before, in late December.

You'd think (at least) four of the lowest bowl games would have to get displaced and/or fall off. But I'm not sure that $$$/TV works that way. We'll see
For decades now, the number of bowl games has only limited by the number of bowl-eligible teams available to play in them. There has been something of a flood of new FCS teams over the last few years. For every four new FBS teams there would be room for one new bowl game. The field will almost certainly grow from 41 to 42 soon.
 

The only successful orange team in Yankee Stadium has been my Astros for the last 7 years! Yankees suck! New York sucks! New Yorkers suck! And nobody gives two (New York City) rats asses about Syracuse. Go Gophers
 

Is it reasonable to take from this that NYC has a high crime rate, but Memphis, Nashville and Charlotte are worse? Or that most large cities have high crime rates. I'm not sure how showing us that Memphis, Nashville and Charlotte have lots of crime stops "discrediting . . . large cities"
Crime is everywhere in America -- in all states, large cities, small cities, and rural areas. The small cities have the fastest growing problem on a statistical basis, because poverty has suburbanized in the past couple decades.

The discrediting -- the ellipsis alters my original quote about "discrediting [a certain type of] large cities" -- is aimed at a certain set of large cities in Dem-led states like NYC, Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, etc. and conveniently leaves out large cities in conservatively run states which frequently have statistically higher crime. When was the last time Fox News talked about crime in Dallas, Nashville, or New Orleans? But they sure do have it!

This is part of a national effort by the conservative media to scare people about Dem leadership and that it will lead to lawlessness.
 


the playoff games/bowls are going to get even more attention, with less attention to the minor bowls. if there's a first-round or quarter-final round game being played, who's going to pay attention to the "blah blah.com" game.

Probably the same people who do now. I know that I wouldn't watch any playoff game over a Gopher bowl game and I might not watch a playoff game not involving a Big Ten team (especially a western one) over a bowl involving a Big Ten team.

The situation wouldn't be all that different from what we have now where we have four or five bowls on some days and you have to pick which ones you want to see the most. They could also schedule these playoff games so they don't compete much with non-playoff bowls.
 


Please don’t judge our whole fan base on your impressions of that forum. There’s some great posters on there, but a great number of them are arrogant pricks. Especially the moderators. Most of our fan base is much more down to earth.
This x100… was personally banned from that forum because I pointed out the clear political bias and flagging/censorship of any opposing views. Also remember Syracuse is not anywhere close on a map to NYC even though we tell our recruits we are New Yorks college team. So Bob L, you are correct. Those who run syracusefan and spend every minute of every day on there are sheltered and do not have to deal with the scary realities that currently plague NYC. But please don’t group all of New York State in with them or with New York City. There is much more to our beautiful state than the armpit, and we carried the House of Representatives as well this year. Safe travels to anyone going to the game, thank you for allowing debate of ideas on this forum, and skol vikes!
 

This x100… was personally banned from that forum because I pointed out the clear political bias and flagging/censorship of any opposing views. Also remember Syracuse is not anywhere close on a map to NYC even though we tell our recruits we are New Yorks college team. So Bob L, you are correct. Those who run syracusefan and spend every minute of every day on there are sheltered and do not have to deal with the scary realities that currently plague NYC. But please don’t group all of New York State in with them or with New York City. There is much more to our beautiful state than the armpit, and we carried the House of Representatives as well this year. Safe travels to anyone going to the game, thank you for allowing debate of ideas on this forum, and skol vikes!
Every forum everywhere's got'em. It's not that big a deal.... I do have a few questions...points.

1) The cold: Yes, we understand that NYC is not as cold as greater Minnesota at that time of year....but (I'm not speaking for everyone) if I'm going to drop 2-3 grand to get the hell out of here in the winter, it isn't going to be to go from E'ffing cold to a little less cold for 3 days. Palm trees, pools, golf courses and drinks served in coconuts with little umbrellas in them are going to be in play.

2) The letdown: It isn't the opponent....again it's the time location, but the Gophers kinda did the conference a solid last year by not complaining about getting passed up for Tampa by a PSU team with a losing conference record, and ended up in one of the lowest bowls the B1G has. We thought maybe we could see a little reach around this year and get placed a bit higher than we should have.

3) It's become obvious that the ACC schools seem to hold the pinstripe in a much higher regard than the B1G schools do, especially the further west you get. Even though the Pinstripe is a "Tier 1" bowl, it seems like a lot of B1G fan bases aren't interested in it...joke about who gets stuck there...and really do hold it at the same level as getting stuck in Detroit. We have another thread going, and you might be the guy to ask.....Why are other ACC coaches "jealous" of Syracuse getting the Pinstripe? We actively campaign to go to lower bowls (Las Vegas, Phoenix,....)

4) As an SU fan, have you ever been in person before? If so what is the fan experience like? All we've heard about is how great it is for the players and coaches.....what about the fans that, in our case, are expected to use our Spring Break vacation $$ to watch a football game in a baseball stadium with temps in the high 30s low 40s?
 
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Every forum everywhere's got'em. It's not that big a deal.... I do have a few questions...points.

1) The cold: Yes, we understand that NYC is not as cold as greater Minnesota at that time of year....but (I'm not speaking for everyone) if I'm going to drop 2-3 grand to get the hell out of here in the winter, it isn't going to go from E'ffing cold to a little less cold. Palm trees, pools, golf courses and drinks served in coconuts with little umbrellas in them are going to be in play.

2) The letdown: It isn't the opponent....again it's the time location, but the Gophers kinda did the conference a solid last year by not complaining about getting passed up for Tampa by a PSU team with a losing conference record, and ended up in one of the lowest bowls the B1G has. We thought maybe we could see a little reach around this year and get placed a bit higher than we should have.

3) It's become obvious that the ACC schools seem to hold the pinstripe in a much higher regard than the B1G schools do, especially the further west you get. Even though the Pinstripe is a "Tier 1" bowl, it seems like a lot of B1G fan bases aren't interested in it...joke about who gets stuck there...and really do hold it at the same level as getting stuck in Detroit. We have another thread going, but you might be the guy to ask.....Why are other ACC coaches "jealous" of Syracuse getting the Pinstripe? We actively campaign to go to lower bowls (Las Vegas, Phoenix,....)

4) As an SU fan, have you ever been in person before? If so what is the fan experience like? All we've heard about is how great it is for the players and coaches.....what about the fans that, in our case, are expected to use our Spring Break vacation $$ to watch a football game in a baseball stadium with temps in the high 30s low 40s?
Great question. I have been in 2012. It was fun because Syracuse won and it snowed as Frank Sinatra played after the win. But I also would rather be in the Gasparilla bowl in Tampa, El Paso, etc. I think a large allure of it is that it’s in the NYC market and there’s recruits in that area and jersey. Another key aspect I think is that it’s near New Year’s Eve, so the players get to spend Christmas in NYC and fans traveling can stay for New Year’s Eve weekend. It’s on a good bowl day and should be a good amount of eyes since it’s the week of Christmas. Other than that I’m just as stumped as you, I was pretty shocked to see that article that ACC coaches hold the pinstripe bowl in high regard
 

Great question. I have been in 2012. It was fun because Syracuse won and it snowed as Frank Sinatra played after the win. But I also would rather be in the Gasparilla bowl in Tampa, El Paso, etc. I think a large allure of it is that it’s in the NYC market and there’s recruits in that area and jersey. Another key aspect I think is that it’s near New Year’s Eve, so the players get to spend Christmas in NYC and fans traveling can stay for New Year’s Eve weekend. It’s on a good bowl day and should be a good amount of eyes since it’s the week of Christmas. Other than that I’m just as stumped as you, I was pretty shocked to see that article that ACC coaches hold the pinstripe bowl in high regard
I know we "could" stay the weekend.....but as some have put out there.....charters out of here for the game are running $1,500 a person and gets us out on NYE. Stay over the weekend, who knows.... Personally, if I'm spending that kind of dime in December, it isn't to go to NY. I'm not sure it's on a good bowl day...it's at like 2pm on a Thursday, just my opinion though.
 



I know we "could" stay the weekend.....but as some have put out there.....charters out of here for the game are running $1,500 a person and gets us out on NYE. Stay over the weekend, who knows.... Personally, if I'm spending that kind of dime in December, it isn't to go to NY. I'm not sure it's on a good bowl day...it's at like 2pm on a Thursday, just my opinion though.
Yeah that’s crazy, I know Syracuse is offering $260 for a bus trip there and back with the ticket. There’s some other good games that day and I was moreso thinking a lot of people won’t be working/kids not in school, but agree 2 pm isn’t the best time
 


Crime is everywhere in America -- in all states, large cities, small cities, and rural areas. The small cities have the fastest growing problem on a statistical basis, because poverty has suburbanized in the past couple decades.

The discrediting -- the ellipsis alters my original quote about "discrediting [a certain type of] large cities" -- is aimed at a certain set of large cities in Dem-led states like NYC, Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, etc. and conveniently leaves out large cities in conservatively run states which frequently have statistically higher crime. When was the last time Fox News talked about crime in Dallas, Nashville, or New Orleans? But they sure do have it!

This is part of a national effort by the conservative media to scare people about Dem leadership and that it will lead to lawlessness.
You apparently don’t watch Fox News.. you should, you would get to see both sides of the issue. I used to be like you, watch CNN and feel like I was informed. then big Bill came along and I wanted to see what others were saying.

Fox has consistently said New Orleans has the worst crime rate in America. But they also report that more people are leaving NYC because of the crime so prevalent on the streets and Subways. For me, the fact that so many NewYorkers are leaving is a red flag. Plus having visited NYC for an extended time, I see no reason to go back. Not even for a second class bowl.
 

I just dropped in on their forum to see what's been happening lately. Arguing crime rates between NYC and Mpls and dropping names of 80s punk bands from the Twin Cities brought that thread to a screeching halt a few days ago. Their threads can go off the rails just as easily as ours...proof that their fans are no better than us.
 



We didn’t beat a single team with a winning record. We lost to every team that had a winning record. How on earth is that not ‘mediocre’ 🤷‍♂️

An eight-win season (with a possible 9th pending) is indeed mediocre if it is in or near the middle of the national average, and if the metric includes strength of schedule, comparatively.

Then, yes, you'd have true mediocrity.
 
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If I'm following correctly it looks like they're undergoing some coach turnover...moving on and not fired...plus have the Portal and injuries in play too.

Overall our coaching situtation is stable and the injuries aren't too bad. The Portal is The Portal so hard to gauge that one.

At least these intangibles appear to be in the Gophers favor, which is a good thing.
 

I've been to Nashville a lot of times and I've never felt particularly unsafe there. I know it has some rougher neighborhoods but I don't know why one would go to those. Memphis, on the other hand, is a different story.
I still remember Pinnacle CEO trying to convince people from Minnesota to move to Memphis. "I can not understand why anyone wouldn't want to live here in Memphis," he said. Unfortunately -- he was gunned down in Memphis less than a year later.

I guess THAT'S why they didn't want to move down there, Phil.
 

I don't have any ill will towards their fans, hell we hardly ever see each other in any sports. I certainly don't take issue with playing them in a bowl game. It should make for a good game. My issue is playing a bowl game in a baseball stadium, especially a northern one. Hell I took issue with playing at Chase Field in Phoenix.

In the grand scheme of things B1G bowl related, drawing the yankee stadium bowl is slightly above a trip to Detroit..
 

An eight-win season (with a possible 9th pending) is indeed mediocre if it is in or near the middle of the national average, and if the metric includes strength of schedule, comparatively.

Then, yes, you'd have true mediocrity.

Yes, and there are sufficient indexes that track that sort of thing using those factors. There are 131 FBS teams. Among selected indexes, this Gopher team ranks as follows:

ESPN Football Power Index: #19
Sagarin: #23
Massey Composite: #31
College Football at Sports Reference Simple Rating System: #32

Those certainly cannot be considered mediocre rankings among 131 teams.

Even if we restrict ourselves to Power Five conference teams, Sagarin ranks 42 of those behind the Gophers and 21 ahead of them. So, the Gophers are still above average among that group.
 
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An eight-win season (with a possible 9th pending) is indeed mediocre if it is in or near the middle of the national average, and if the metric includes strength of schedule, comparatively.

Then, yes, you'd have true mediocrity.
Small point: In a 12 game regular season, assuming each college win must by definition be offset by a loss, the expected statistical mean, the national average record, would be a 6-6 season, would it not? How numerically could it be otherwise? 131 teams play 12 games each=1,572 wins and 1,572 losses=a 6-6 record "average." An 8-4 record might well be mediocrity in the minds of those who justifiably expected better, of course, because of a particular team's supposed superior talent, financial advantages, etc. And strength of schedule could certainly diminish the luster of a squishy 8 win record.
 
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Small point: In a 12 game regular season, assuming each college win must by definition be offset by a loss, the expected statistical mean, the national average record, would be a 6-6 season, would it not? How numerically could it be otherwise? 131 teams play 12 games each=1,572 wins and 1,572 losses=a 6-6 record "average." An 8-4 record might well be mediocrity in the minds of those who justifiably expected better, of course, because of a particular team's supposed superior talent, financial advantages, etc. And strength of schedule could certainly diminish the luster of a squishy 8 win record.

I suspect the average number of wins for FBS teams is fractionally above 6 because most of them seem to play one FCS team, they would win the majority of those, and each of those wins would add 1 to the win column for FBS teams without adding a counterbalancing loss to the pool.
 

I suspect the average number of wins for FBS teams is fractionally above 6 because most of them seem to play one FCS team, they would win the majority of those, and each of those wins would add 1 to the win column for FBS teams without adding a counterbalancing loss to the pool.
True. Let’s call it approximately 6.3—5.7 FBS team win/loss average, accounting for FCS wins and losses differently than FBS wins and losses. An 8-4 record is still statistically well beyond this average.
 
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An eight-win season (with a possible 9th pending) is indeed mediocre if it is in or near the middle of the national average, and if the metric includes strength of schedule, comparatively.

Then, yes, you'd have true mediocrity.
We could go around all day, but not caring about who we beat in an “8-4” analysis is crazy. It is the kind of thinking that had UCF claim a national championship.
- What you are saying is if we beat 6 below average teams and lose to 6 above average teams we would be average (6-6). But because we beat 8 below average teams and lost to 4 above average teams that we are now above average? Beating 2 additional below average teams is very important, I guess. Sorry, that logic doesn’t compute.

On the bright side, SU is 7-5. If we win, we will have beaten a team with a winning record. If Wisky wins, they’ll improve to 7-6 - so we will have beaten 2 teams with winning (7-6) records. I suspect you will be calling for us to be ranked at that time.
 

We could go around all day, but not caring about who we beat in an “8-4” analysis is crazy.

Stop being an ass. There are well known indexes that all figure in performance and schedule strength. All of them are superior measures to your intuition. None of the major ones rank the Gophers as mediocre among FBS teams or even Power 5 teams.
 

We could go around all day, but not caring about who we beat in an “8-4” analysis is crazy. It is the kind of thinking that had UCF claim a national championship.
- What you are saying is if we beat 6 below average teams and lose to 6 above average teams we would be average (6-6). But because we beat 8 below average teams and lost to 4 above average teams that we are now above average? Beating 2 additional below average teams is very important, I guess. Sorry, that logic doesn’t compute.

On the bright side, SU is 7-5. If we win, we will have beaten a team with a winning record. If Wisky wins, they’ll improve to 7-6 - so we will have beaten 2 teams with winning (7-6) records. I suspect you will be calling for us to be ranked at that time.

me·di·o·cre
/ˌmēdēˈōkər/

adjective
of only moderate quality; not very good.
"a mediocre actor"

-------

I'm not calling for anything.
I never said I don't care who we beat. I pointed out that computer ranking services do, in fact, factor in strength of schedule.

I'm pointing out that there are objective ways to measure a team's season.

I'm just not convinced that a B1G team that finishes 8-5 or 9-4 can objectively be described as mediocre. Not if mediocre is defined as average, or slightly worse.

See also post # 138 in this thread:

"Yes, and there are sufficient indexes that track that sort of thing using those factors. There are 131 FBS teams. Among selected indexes, this Gopher team ranks as follows:

ESPN Football Power Index: #19
Sagarin: #23
Massey Composite: #31
College Football at Sports Reference Simple Rating System: #32

Those certainly cannot be considered mediocre rankings among 131 teams.

Even if we restrict ourselves to Power Five conference teams, Sagarin ranks 42 of those behind the Gophers and 21 ahead of them. So, the Gophers are still above average among that group."
 

I still remember Pinnacle CEO trying to convince people from Minnesota to move to Memphis. "I can not understand why anyone wouldn't want to live here in Memphis," he said. Unfortunately -- he was gunned down in Memphis less than a year later.

I guess THAT'S why they didn't want to move down there, Phil.

Yes, I remember the first time I went to Memphis. Driving around a neighborhood that featured smaller, single family homes I noticed that the majority of those houses had metal bars across their windows. Not a great sign for neighborhood security.

Nashville is fun but it has a genteel feel. When you go to the Beale Street clubs in Memphis later at night, the atmosphere and street llfe appear much wilder and if you wander very far from Beale St., the scenery gets sketchier looking fairly quickly.
 

slightly off-topic, but I hate the word "mediocre." Or, I hate how it is used.

definitions from the Cambridge Dictionary:
just acceptable but not good; not good enough:
ordinary and not very good:


so going by the dictionary, 'mediocre' means something that is average, acceptable or ordinary.

and yet, most people who use the word use 'mediocre' to mean poor or below average. it has a negative connotation.

going by the definition, a 6-6 season would be mediocre. 8-4 is better than that. now, you can have a long debate over whether the season "could" have been better, or whether the season "should" have been better. But, I maintain that 8-4 is not mediocre - if the word is being used correctly.
 

Even if we restrict ourselves to Power Five conference teams, Sagarin ranks 42 of those behind the Gophers and 21 ahead of them. So, the Gophers are still above average among that group."
22 out of 64. Just outside of the top 3rd. Fairly mediocre then, right?
If you want to think beating the Colorado, NMSU, and Northwestern’s of CFB means something, go ahead. I don’t 🤷‍♂️

We aren’t bad. We are mediocre. We have a chance to beat our first team with a winning record coming up. A team most on this board thought was beneath us. I hope we do.
 

Stop being an ass. There are well known indexes that all figure in performance and schedule strength. All of them are superior measures to your intuition. None of the major ones rank the Gophers as mediocre among FBS teams or even Power 5 teams.
Great point. So in your opinion, who was the best team we beat this year? Wisconsin? Are they not mediocre? What is our baseline here? 😂
 

22 out of 64. Just outside of the top 3rd. Fairly mediocre then, right?
If you want to think beating the Colorado, NMSU, and Northwestern’s of CFB means something, go ahead. I don’t 🤷‍♂️

We aren’t bad. We are mediocre. We have a chance to beat our first team with a winning record coming up. A team most on this board thought was beneath us. I hope we do.

No, not correct. Mediocre is average or slightly below average. Just outside the top third in P5 qualifies as above average, clearly.

Again, 4 major computer-based (objective) rankings services ranked the Gophers as follows among all 131 FBS teams...

ESPN Football Power Index: #19 of 131
Sagarin: #23 of 131
Massey Composite: #31 of 131
College Football at Sports Reference Simple Rating System: #32 of 131

These computer-based, objective rankings indicate we are definitely well above mediocre.
 
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slightly off-topic, but I hate the word "mediocre." Or, I hate how it is used.

definitions from the Cambridge Dictionary:
just acceptable but not good; not good enough:
ordinary and not very good:


so going by the dictionary, 'mediocre' means something that is average, acceptable or ordinary.

and yet, most people who use the word use 'mediocre' to mean poor or below average. it has a negative connotation.

going by the definition, a 6-6 season would be mediocre. 8-4 is better than that. now, you can have a long debate over whether the season "could" have been better, or whether the season "should" have been better. But, I maintain that 8-4 is not mediocre - if the word is being used correctly.
Mediocre is below average. You are interpreting the definition incorrectly.

Let’s take the definition you posted from the Cambridge Dictionary:
just acceptable but not good; not good enough:
ordinary and not very good:


1st part: just acceptable but not good;
Just in this case means barely (As noted in the both the Merriam-Webster and Oxford dictionaries (I don’t have the Cambridge to reference).

So replace just with barely and the definition may be clearer: barely acceptable but not good

Also the definition also contains:
Not good
Not good enough
Not very good

All of which are below average definitions.

Merriam’s definition for Kids may be the clearest:
Mediocre is: Not very good

No matter the definition, an 8-4 season is not mediocre.
 




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