STrib: Imagine a Gophers hoops team with mostly Minnesota talent; Ben Johnson's close to making it happen

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BleedGopher

BleedGopher

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per Marcus:

More in-state talent coming

Calling the Gophers depth thin in the frontcourt was an understatement this year, so much so that fans already looked ahead to a Minnesota-laden trio inside in 2022-23.

Fox and powerfully-built 6-9, 235-pound incoming freshman Pharrel Payne could compete for starting spots next to Battle next season.

"I'm definitely excited," Payne said. "I think me and [Battle] would go great together."

That potential lineup doesn't even include the 6-11 Garcia, who if added would give the Gophers much-needed size and a highly-skilled inside-out scorer. He led all Big East freshman in scoring and rebounding at Marquette in 2020-21.

Payne and Osseo's Joshua Ola-Joseph committed to the Gophers last August after Park Center's Braeden Carrington became Johnson's first high school recruit as the Gophers coach.

"I feel like with the recruits we have coming in and the guys we have there staying," Carrington said, "I think we'll be able to mix well."

Carrington, a sharpshooting 6-4 guard, ended up leading the Pirates to the Class 4A state championship and winning Minnesota Mr. Basketball, the first U recruit to do that since Coffey when Johnson was on staff in 2016.

The Gophers' last NCAA tournament berth came when they had three starters from Minnesota with Oturu, Coffey, and Gabe Kalscheur three years ago.

The Gophers might not have an entire starting five or full roster with Minnesotans when their new team debuts at Williams Arena next season. Still, it might look pretty close to that soon.

www.startribune.com

Imagine a Gophers hoops team with mostly Minnesota talent; Ben Johnson's close to making it happen

If the Gophers add North Carolina transfer Dawson Garcia, that would give them seven scholarship players from Minnesota.
www.startribune.com www.startribune.com

Go Gophers!!
 




BleedGopher said:
per Marcus:

More in-state talent coming

Calling the Gophers depth thin in the frontcourt was an understatement this year, so much so that fans already looked ahead to a Minnesota-laden trio inside in 2022-23.

Fox and powerfully-built 6-9, 235-pound incoming freshman Pharrel Payne could compete for starting spots next to Battle next season.

"I'm definitely excited," Payne said. "I think me and [Battle] would go great together."

That potential lineup doesn't even include the 6-11 Garcia, who if added would give the Gophers much-needed size and a highly-skilled inside-out scorer. He led all Big East freshman in scoring and rebounding at Marquette in 2020-21.

Payne and Osseo's Joshua Ola-Joseph committed to the Gophers last August after Park Center's Braeden Carrington became Johnson's first high school recruit as the Gophers coach.

"I feel like with the recruits we have coming in and the guys we have there staying," Carrington said, "I think we'll be able to mix well."

Carrington, a sharpshooting 6-4 guard, ended up leading the Pirates to the Class 4A state championship and winning Minnesota Mr. Basketball, the first U recruit to do that since Coffey when Johnson was on staff in 2016.

The Gophers' last NCAA tournament berth came when they had three starters from Minnesota with Oturu, Coffey, and Gabe Kalscheur three years ago.

The Gophers might not have an entire starting five or full roster with Minnesotans when their new team debuts at Williams Arena next season. Still, it might look pretty close to that soon.

www.startribune.com

Imagine a Gophers hoops team with mostly Minnesota talent; Ben Johnson's close to making it happen

If the Gophers add North Carolina transfer Dawson Garcia, that would give them seven scholarship players from Minnesota.
www.startribune.com www.startribune.com

Go Gophers!!
Click to expand...
Provincialism Wood!
 





Johnnyboy18 said:
First two teams finished 500. or above in the B1G. Keep digging
Click to expand...

They were NIT teams. With a 5* top 10 player from MN in Rick Rickert.

The 03-04 team had 3 top 50 recruits from MN, including the top 10, 5* recruit Kris Humphries, and finished tied for last.
 



GopherWeatherGuy said:
They were NIT teams.

The 03-04 team had 3 top 50 recruits from MN, including the top 10, 5* recruit Kris Humphries, and finished tied for last.
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And? Kris Humphries was playing to get to the NBA and they sucked. Not sure what trying to get good players from MN has to do with one team being bad.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
And? Kris Humphries was playing to get to the NBA and they sucked. Not sure what trying to get good players from MN has to do with one team being bad.
Click to expand...

All three of those teams were loaded with Minnesota talent, it's what dreams are made of around here.

Yet none of them were NCAA tournament teams.
 

the whole headline of this article is dumb, is "imagine a talented team who is about to win the conference under Ben Johnson" too far away? Do any of us really care as long as the team wins? This assumption that fans only want a winner if MN players are involved seems like a straw man the press desperately wants to keep alive for some reason, just win baby
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
All three of those teams were loaded with Minnesota talent, it's what dreams are made of around here.

Yet none of them were NCAA tournament teams.
Click to expand...
2 of the teams above were bubble teams with a bad coach.

We're literally at the doormat of the B1G largely due to the last coach not getting good enough players. The easiest place for a bad program to pull players from is recruiting pipelines. The team to the east of us has had success pulling players from here and beating us with them.

Not one person is begging for an all Minnesota roster.
 



Johnnyboy18 said:
2 of the teams above were bubble teams with a bad coach.

We're literally at the doormat of the B1G largely due to the last coach not getting good enough players. The easiest place for a bad program to pull players from is recruiting pipelines. The team to the east of us has had success pulling players from here and beating us with them.

Not one person is begging for an all Minnesota roster.
Click to expand...

We're the doormat due to the last 3 coaches. All 3 coaches also had some success recruiting MN players, with Monson being the most successful. There are plenty of people that want the roster to be made up of mostly Minnesotans.

As others have mentioned the next few MN classes are not great. If Ben is going to be successful here, he's going to have to recruit good players from other states.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
We're the doormat due to the last 3 coaches. All 3 coaches also had some success recruiting MN players, with Monson being the most successful. There are plenty of people that want the roster to be made up of mostly Minnesotans.

As others have mentioned the next few MN classes are not great. If Ben is going to be successful here, he's going to have to recruit good players from other states.
Click to expand...
Tubby had us as a consistent middle of the pack B1G team and did a good job rebuilding the program.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
Tubby had us as a consistent middle of the pack B1G team and did a good job rebuilding the program.
Click to expand...

Tubby never finished above .500 in the conference. Pitino and Monson did once each. None of them were successful or rebuilt anything.
 

a little off-track, but after looking at those rosters -

I saw Steve Esselink play Football and Basketball in HS. He was athletically head-and-shoulders above the level of competition he faced in HS - but at D1, he was maybe a half-step too slow and didn't have a great outside shot. In HS, he could just drive by guys for layups and dunks. No so easy in the B1G.

but that illustrates one of the issues in evaluating HS talent - what level of competition are they facing and how does their game translate to a higher level?

and that becomes an issue for evaluating MN players who may - or may not - be facing the same level of competition as a top player from another state.
 

There can be little doubt that the level of talent in MN over the past 5 or so years has improved dramatically. The explosion of AAU has a lot to do with it. If Ben is able to lockdown the borders and sprinkle in some others, we will be at least a top half of the B10 program....
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
Tubby had us as a consistent middle of the pack B1G team and did a good job rebuilding the program.
Click to expand...
No. Tubby did far more damage than good. He was hired AND PAID as the Hall of Fame coach that would give the program a big boost. What he ended up doing was making it appear that no one could succeed at Minnesota. So bad that when we went to look for a coach we had to take the 10th choice in Pitino.

46-62 in the Big Ten and most of these finishes are in a 12 team Big Ten

2007–08Minnesota20–148–106thNIT First Round
2008–09Minnesota22–119–9T–7thNCAA Division I Round of 64
2009–10Minnesota21–149–96thNCAA Division I Round of 64
2010–11Minnesota17–146–129th
2011–12Minnesota23–156–12T–9thNIT Runner-up
2012–13Minnesota21–138–10T–7thNCAA Division I Round of 32
 

GopherBlood666 said:
the whole headline of this article is dumb, is "imagine a talented team who is about to win the conference under Ben Johnson" too far away? Do any of us really care as long as the team wins? This assumption that fans only want a winner if MN players are involved seems like a straw man the press desperately wants to keep alive for some reason, just win baby
Click to expand...

I don't think it's ridiculous to suggest many people in this State would rather lose with Minnesota kids than win without them. "Minnesota Connections" is all many people talk about here. If only we could lock down the border. If only we could bring back all the Minnesota kids that spurned us and went elsewhere. When a Minnesota kid picks a different school, it's considered a black eye on the current coach. We need to hire coaches with "Minnesota Connections", despite better candidates being out there (see Whalen/Johnson). The provincialism around this team is really quite nauseating. The media. The administration. On and on.
 

bga1 said:
No. Tubby did far more damage than good. He was hired AND PAID as the Hall of Fame coach that would give the program a big boost. What he ended up doing was making it appear that no one could succeed at Minnesota. So bad that when we went to look for a coach we had to take the 10th choice in Pitino.

46-62 in the Big Ten and most of these finishes are in a 12 team Big Ten

2007–08Minnesota20–148–106thNIT First Round
2008–09Minnesota22–119–9T–7thNCAA Division I Round of 64
2009–10Minnesota21–149–96thNCAA Division I Round of 64
2010–11Minnesota17–146–129th
2011–12Minnesota23–156–12T–9thNIT Runner-up
2012–13Minnesota21–138–10T–7thNCAA Division I Round of 32
Click to expand...
Interesting discussion... maybe we all need to come to together to define what success is for once and for all! Let's define the metric for the AD and coaching staff so that can aspire towards greatness! Maybe previous teams haven't been successful because the goals of the fans have not been clear! What are we shooting for?

Overall record?
B1G record?
B1G standing?
B1G tournament wins?
NCAA tournament appearances?
NCAA tournament wins?
Reaching a certain round of the NCAA tournament?
Number of 4 or 5 star recruits?
Number of recruits from MN?
Attractive quality of bball? Defensive or offensive?

Some of these are not mutually exclusive... some could be. This program has wandered around in the wasteland for such a long time that I don't think it would hurt for the AD to get a feel for the pulse of the fans.
 


golfing18now said:
I don't think it's ridiculous to suggest many people in this State would rather lose with Minnesota kids than win without them. "Minnesota Connections" is all many people talk about here. If only we could lock down the border. If only we could bring back all the Minnesota kids that spurned us and went elsewhere. When a Minnesota kid picks a different school, it's considered a black eye on the current coach. We need to hire coaches with "Minnesota Connections", despite better candidates being out there (see Whalen/Johnson). The provincialism around this team is really quite nauseating. The media. The administration. On and on.
Click to expand...
Ah yes Minnesotans totally would hate winning without any Minnesota kids. This topic comes up because we suck and the programs succeed with gettable players from the state.
 

golfing18now said:
I don't think it's ridiculous to suggest many people in this State would rather lose with Minnesota kids than win without them. "Minnesota Connections" is all many people talk about here. If only we could lock down the border. If only we could bring back all the Minnesota kids that spurned us and went elsewhere. When a Minnesota kid picks a different school, it's considered a black eye on the current coach. We need to hire coaches with "Minnesota Connections", despite better candidates being out there (see Whalen/Johnson). The provincialism around this team is really quite nauseating. The media. The administration. On and on.
Click to expand...
The "one of us" mentality is very strong in this state but I disagree with the first statement that there are fans that would rather lose with Minnesota kids than win without them. Fans stop being as concerned about where the recruits are coming from if the team is doing well.

What has been tough to swallow on the basketball side is seeing all the high level talent in the state heading elsewhere.
 

bga1 said:
No. Tubby did far more damage than good. He was hired AND PAID as the Hall of Fame coach that would give the program a big boost. What he ended up doing was making it appear that no one could succeed at Minnesota. So bad that when we went to look for a coach we had to take the 10th choice in Pitino.

46-62 in the Big Ten and most of these finishes are in a 12 team Big Ten

2007–08Minnesota20–148–106thNIT First Round
2008–09Minnesota22–119–9T–7thNCAA Division I Round of 64
2009–10Minnesota21–149–96thNCAA Division I Round of 64
2010–11Minnesota17–146–129th
2011–12Minnesota23–156–12T–9thNIT Runner-up
2012–13Minnesota21–138–10T–7thNCAA Division I Round of 32
Click to expand...
I'll go with mega tongue being an idiot and hiring the wrong coach.
 

golfing18now said:
I don't think it's ridiculous to suggest many people in this State would rather lose with Minnesota kids than win without them. "Minnesota Connections" is all many people talk about here. If only we could lock down the border. If only we could bring back all the Minnesota kids that spurned us and went elsewhere. When a Minnesota kid picks a different school, it's considered a black eye on the current coach. We need to hire coaches with "Minnesota Connections", despite better candidates being out there (see Whalen/Johnson). The provincialism around this team is really quite nauseating. The media. The administration. On and on.
Click to expand...
I think it feeds upon itself. Fans see so many quality players leave the state and not the same quality in state so they will always pine for what could have been. The media picks up on this and does stories on this including player spotlights on players who left. This feeds the cycle. Soon recruits see all of the attention on players that leave the state that they see the Gophers as a lesser option.

Let's break the cycle!
 

ecoperson said:
Interesting discussion... maybe we all need to come to together to define what success is for once and for all! Let's define the metric for the AD and coaching staff so that can aspire towards greatness! Maybe previous teams haven't been successful because the goals of the fans have not been clear! What are we shooting for?

Overall record?
B1G record?
B1G standing?
B1G tournament wins?
NCAA tournament appearances?
NCAA tournament wins?
Reaching a certain round of the NCAA tournament?
Number of 4 or 5 star recruits?
Number of recruits from MN?
Attractive quality of bball? Defensive or offensive?

Some of these are not mutually exclusive... some could be. This program has wandered around in the wasteland for such a long time that I don't think it would hurt for the AD to get a feel for the pulse of the fans.
Click to expand...
Goals of the fans dont matter. Ad and administration drive the bus.
 

bga1 said:
No. Tubby did far more damage than good. He was hired AND PAID as the Hall of Fame coach that would give the program a big boost. What he ended up doing was making it appear that no one could succeed at Minnesota. So bad that when we went to look for a coach we had to take the 10th choice in Pitino.

46-62 in the Big Ten and most of these finishes are in a 12 team Big Ten

2007–08Minnesota20–148–106thNIT First Round
2008–09Minnesota22–119–9T–7thNCAA Division I Round of 64
2009–10Minnesota21–149–96thNCAA Division I Round of 64
2010–11Minnesota17–146–129th
2011–12Minnesota23–156–12T–9thNIT Runner-up
2012–13Minnesota21–138–10T–7thNCAA Division I Round of 32
Click to expand...

He still won 20 or more games in 5 of his 6 years and never had a losing season.

In 8 years, his successor had 3 seasons of 20 or more wins and 4 outright losing seasons.

Of his six seasons, four truly were middle of the pack (as the other poster said) in the conference.

Tubby may not have been the coach of anyone's dreams but he was significantly more successful than his predecessor and successor.
 

ecoperson said:
Fans see so many quality players leave the state
Click to expand...

You know, I think this is overestimated and, to the extent that it isn't, most of those were the kind of players who had lots of elite offers and were going to pick one of the most elite ones. That phenomena isn't any different from a very elite student who is offered full rides by Harvard, Yale, Stanford, U of Chicago, and Minnesota and does not choose to go to Minnesota (and the U of M is more elite academically than it is in basketball).

Now we have had some in-state players (like Battle) who were overlooked and probably should not have been.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
a little off-track, but after looking at those rosters -

I saw Steve Esselink play Football and Basketball in HS. He was athletically head-and-shoulders above the level of competition he faced in HS - but at D1, he was maybe a half-step too slow and didn't have a great outside shot. In HS, he could just drive by guys for layups and dunks. No so easy in the B1G.



but that illustrates one of the issues in evaluating HS talent - what level of competition are they facing and how does their game translate to a higher level?

and that becomes an issue for evaluating MN players who may - or may not - be facing the same level of competition as a top player from another state.
Click to expand...

Great point and I remember him as well.

I remember being enamored of lefty Dave Dalke from Chaska (?) as a middle schooler during the state tournament and then not so much when he struggled mightily in the B10, as he simply didn’t have the foot speed to play at that level.
 

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