Some perspective with the 2013 recruiting class

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Killjoy said:
Serious question - How do you do that when we are now in a supposedly "dead period", i.e no contact with recruits? Does anybody know if and how you can communicate with a recruit during this period?
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http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect...+ncaa+division+i+football+recruiting+calendar
(d) February 4-7, 2013: Dead Period
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http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/NCAA/Eligibility/Becoming+Eligible/Recruiting

What is a dead period?

During a dead period a college coach may not have face-to-face contact with college-bound student-athletes or their parents, and may not watch student-athletes compete or visit their high schools. Coaches may write and telephone student-athletes or their parents during a dead period.
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Wasn't Brewster pretty much stalking Seantrel Henderson during the dead period a few years back?
 

Nate

Thanks - Now that I understand what a "dead period" is I am sure things are VERY BUSY at the Gopher's football complex today. Football coaches today across the country must be making more promises and telling more lies than a politician before election day!
 

So I was scrounging around and I found something I had done a while back on recruiting comparing our classes since '04, and the offers that are reportedly listed by Rivals and how many of our commits that year had BCS offers. I updated it with this past class and thought it kinda fit with this thread:

2004 - 9/24 (37.5%) (Class rank: 58th nationally, 9th Big Ten, Avg. Star: 2.25)​
Leland Jones (5.6: Clemson, S.Car, Vandy)
Jack Simmons (5.5: ILL, MSU, NU)
Nhemie Theodore (5.5: Rutgers, VT)
Johnny Sampy (5.4: Mizzou)
Andre Sloan El (5.4: IU, Iowa)
Hussain Shakir (5.2: UConn, UNC, Rutgers)
Matt Degeest (5.1: Nebraska)
Deon Hightower (5.1: KU)
Sam Scroggins (5.1: GT, IU, KU)
Others: Dom Barber (5.5), Justin Kucek, (5.2), Gary Russell (5.1), Willie VanDeSteeg (5.1)

2005 - 12/20 (60%) (Class rank: 55th nationally, 10th Big Ten, Avg. Star: 2.67)​
Alex Daniels (5.9: OSU, OU, Pitt, WV)
Mike Chambers (5.5: MSU, WV)
Boyd Coleman (5.5: UK, Miss, UNC, PU, Becky)
Steve Davis (5.5: Mizzou, NU, Becky)
Dominic Jones (5.5: MSU, Pitt)
Marcel Jones (5.5: Becky)
Keith Massey (5.5: MSU, Pitt, PU, Becky)
Ryan Ruckdashel (5.5: ISU, MSU)
Ned Tavale (5.5: ILL, ISU)
Otis Hudson (5.2: ILL)
Jason Sekinger (5.2: ILL, IU)
Michael McKelton (5.0: IU)
Others: Jay Thomas (5.5), Nate Triplett (5.5), Eric Decker (5.3), Matt Stommes (5.0)

2006 - 12/22 (54.5%) (Class rank: 62nd nationally, 9th Big Ten, Avg. Star: 2.33)​
Jamar Howard (5.6: Iowa, Pitt, PU, WV)
Robert McField (5.6: CIN, IU, Mizzou)
Sean McWhirther (5.6, ISU, MSU, NU)
Tommy Becker (5.5: ISU, KU)
Garrett Brown (5.5: ILL, Maryland, MSU, Miss, Rutgers)
D.J. Burris (5.5: WV)
Adam Weber (5.5: Becky)
E.J. Jones (5.3: IU, NU)
R.J. Buckner (5.2: IU)
Lee Campbell (2 stars, no RR: Stanford)
Josh Robertson (2 stars, no RR: KSU, MSU)
Rudy Robinson (no RR: IU, ISU)
Others: Terrence Sherrer (5.6), Dom Alford (5.3), Eric Ellestad (4.9)

2007 - 10/24 (41.7%) (Class rank: 57th nationally, 9th Big Ten, Avg. Star: 2.46)​
Anthony Jacobs (5.8: Becky)
Clint Brewster (5.7: ILL, Wash St.)
Curtis Thomas (5.7: Baylor, IU, ISU, KU, KSU, MSU, Mizzou)
Logan Uu (5.5: Cal, Wash St.)
Duane Bennett (5.4: KU, Mizzou)
Serge Elizee (5.4: Wash St.)
Eric Small (5.4: ISU, Becky)
Justin Chatman (5.3: NU, Vandy, Becky)
Tray Herndon (5.3: IU)
Damien White (5.2: ISU)
Others: Andre Tate' (5.7), Trey Davis (5.6), Ryan Orton (5.6), Chris Bunders (5.5), Ryan Collado (5.5), Ryan Wynn (5.3), Kyle Theret (5.1)

2008 - 25/29 (86.2%) (Class rank: 17th nationally, 3rd Big Ten, Avg. Star: 3.07)​
MarQueis Gray (5.9: Cincy, ILL, IU, Iowa, Kentucky, MSU, Oregon, PU)
Keanon Cooper (5.8: KU, KSU, Miami, Michigan, OU, TTU, Becky)
Brandon Green (5.8: ILL, Iowa, ISU, MSU, NU, PU, Becky)
Vince Hill (5.8: ILL)
Sam Maresh (5.8: Iowa, ISU, KSU, Michigan, MSU, Becky)
David Pittman (5.8: ASU, UCLA, Wash St.)
Traye Simmons (5.8: Cal, Florida, PU)
Jewhan Edwards (5.7: Syracuse, WV)
Spencer Reeves (5.7: Arizona, Arkansas, KSU, TTU, Becky)
Broderick Smith (5.7: Arizona, Colo St., ILL, KSU, Nebraska, Oregon)
Kevin Whaley (5.7: Uconn, Maryland, MSU, PSU, Virginia, VT, WV)
Tramaine Brock (5.6: Louisville, Miss, S.Car)
Eric Lair (5.6: Baylor, Nebraska, Ok St.)
Simoni Lawrence (5.6: Pitt, WV)
Rex Sharpe (5.6: Colorado)
Terrell Combs (5.5: Kentucky, Louisville, Michigan, MSU, PU, WV)
Tim Dandridge (5.5: Colorado, MSU, PU)
Deleon Eskridge (5.5: Nebraska, Wash)
Brandon Kirksey (5.5: Arkansas, KSU, LSU, Miss)
Cedric McKinley (5.5: ILL)
Shady Salamon (5.5: Mizzou)
Troy Stoudermire (5.5: Cal, ISU, KSU, UNC)
Gary Tinsley (5.5: Arkansas)
D.L. Wilhite (5.5: PU, WV)
Xzavian Brandon (5.4: Wash St.)
Others: Da'Jon McKnight (5.3)

2009 - 13/20 (65%) (Class rank: 39th nationally, 6th Big Ten, Avg. Star: 3.05)​
Hayo Carpenter (5.9: ASU, Florida, Oregon St, Wash St)
Michael Carter (5.9: Florida, Georgia, Miami, WV)
Hasan Lipscomb (5.8: Baylor, ISU, Neb, Tx A&M)
Moses Alipate (5.7: Colorado, Wash St.)
Bryant Allen (5.7: IU, Iowa, KU, Mizzou, Becky)
Matt Garin (5.7: ASU, Colorado, Oregon St, PU, Stanford, UCLA, Wash St, WV)
Kendall Gregory-McGhee (5.7: Colorado)
Ra'Shede Hageman (5.7: Florida, Iowa, ISU, MSU, Neb, OSU, OU, Becky)
Kerry Lewis (5.7: Arizona, Iowa, KU, KSU, Ok St, Oregon, Vandy)
Joey Searcy (5.7: Colorado, Iowa)
Brent Singleton (5.6: IU, S.Car, Syracuse, Vandy)
Kenny Watkins (5.6: IU)
Brooks Michel (5.5: Kentucky, NC St.)
Others: Josh Campion (5.7), Vic Keise (5.6), Ed Olson (5.6), Jeff Wills - JUCO (5.5), Dan Orseske (5.3)

2010 - 15/25 (60%) (Class rank: 51st nationally, 7th Big Ten, Avg. Star: 2.88)​
Lamonte Edwards (5.8: Iowa, Becky)
Jimmy Gjere (5.8: Becky)
Tom Parish (5.7: Iowa)
Marquise Hill (5.6: Arkansas, Iowa, KU, KSU, MSU, Mizzou, Neb, UCLA, Becky)
Donnell Kirkwood (5.6: KSU, Pitt, Rutgers)
James Manuel (5.6: Cincy, Iowa, Louisville, MSU)
Jon Ragoo (5.6: Miami?)
Herschel Thornton (5.6: Pitt, Rutgers, USF)
Brock Vereen (5.6: Stanford)
Tyrone Bouie (5.5: PU)
Matt Eggen (5.5: IU)
Tiree Eure (5.5: Colorado, UConn, PU, Rutgers, Syracuse)
Harold Legania (5.5: Colorado, Miss, Miss St, UNC, TTU, Virginia)
Devon Wright (5.5: BC, UConn, IU, Michigan, MSU, Rutgers, Wake, Becky)
Dwayne Mitchell (5.4: Duke)
Others: Marek Lenkiewicz (5.6), Christyn Lewis (5.6), Josh Tauaefa (5.6)

2011 - 13/25 (52%) (Class rank: 60th nationally, 9th Big Ten, Avg. Star: 2.79)​
Quentin Gardner (5.6: Iowa, ISU)
Steven Montgomery (5.6: Illni, KU, Maryland, UNC, WV, Becky)
Max Shortell (5.6: Michigan)
Peter Westerhaus (5.6: ISU)
Michael Amaefula (5.5: Iowa, ISU, KSU)
David Cobb (5.5: Stanford)
Devin Crawford-Tufts (5.5: Becky)
Jephete Matilus (5.5: Illini, UK)
Kyle McAvoy (5.5: Arizona, KU, MSU, NW, Syracuse
Luke McAvoy (5.5: Arizona, KU)
Malcolm Moulton (5.5: Neb)
Theiren Cockran (5.4: Purdue)
Dexter Foreman (5.3: Baylor)
Others: Tommy Olson (5.7), Quinn Bauducco (5.6), Josh Campion (5.6, Miami offer?), Drew Goodger (5.6)

2012 - 10/27 (37%) (Class rank: 72nd nationally, 12th Big Ten, Avg. Star: 2.70)​
Andre McDonald (5.7: Arizona, ILL, Iowa, OSU, UCLA, Vandy)
Jamel Harbison (5.6: NC St, Vandy, Virginia, Wake, WV)
Isaac Hayes (5.6: VT)
Jonah Pirsig (5.6: Auburn, ILL, IU, Iowa, ISU, Michigan, MSU, OSU, Becky)
Jordan Hinojosa (5.6: MSU, Wake, WV)
Roland Johnson (5.5: ILL)
KJ Maye (5.5: UK)
Martez Shabazz (5.5: Baylor)
Roderick Williams Jr. (5.5: Iowa, Utah)
Yoshoub Timms (5.4: Syracuse)
Others: Philip Nelson (5.7), Antonio Johnson (5.6)

2013 - 13/19 (68.4%) (Class rank: 60th nationally, 12th Big Ten, Avg. Star: 2.74)​
Eric Carter (5.7: Cincy, ISU, Mizzou, Purdue)
Berkley Edwards (5.7: Cal, Iowa at some point)
De'Niro Laster (5.7: ILL, KU)
De'Vondre Campbell (5.6: KSU, Tenn, Texas)
Rayfield Dixon (5.6: Miss St., Purdue, Wake, WVU)
Alex Mayes (5.6: Baylor, Colorado, UConn, Kansas, KSU, Texas Tech)
Drew Wolitarsky (5.6: Arizona)
Nate Wozniak (5.6: Cincy, IU, ISU, Maryland, Miami, Purdue)
Hendrick Ekpe (5.5: Iowa, Northwestern)
Jordan Hinojosa (5.5: Miami, PSU)
Donovahn Jones (5.5: Arkansas, Cincy, UK, Mizzou, NC St., Wake)
Damaris Peppers (5.5: UK, Nebraska)
Damien Wilson (5.4: KU)
Others: Owen Salzwedel (5.6)
 

What's interesting is that based on Rivals, this class had the 2nd highest percentage of BCS offers ('08 clearly far and away the best) of any class since '04. The quality of the BCS offer obviously matters as well, but just an interesting note on this class.
 


Monty519 said:
What's interesting is that based on Rivals, this class had the 2nd highest percentage of BCS offers ('08 clearly far and away the best) of any class since '04. The quality of the BCS offer obviously matters as well, but just an interesting note on this class.
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Something else interesting - the '08 class, far and away the best on paper, had 7 commits with listed SEC offers. This class, ostensibly much worse on paper, had 5.
 

Also of the six in this class that lacked a bcs offer, Streveler, Myrick, Salzwedel, and Wipson all committed in the summer. Which can cause other schools to back off.
 

Amazing the number of huge disappointments in the Brew Crew recruits
 





Halsey Hall said:
Amazing the number of huge disappointments in the Brew Crew recruits
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I think the dissapointment of the results of 2008 class is really a result of the complete failure of the 2009 class. I think I count about 4 commits from the 2009 class that were relevant last year whereas when you include the junior college members of the 2008 class that were gone by 2009, it had a high number that were either starting or at least contributing. Even Ryan Grant of the 2008 class played a larger role than most of the 2009 class.
 

btowngopher said:
Also of the six in this class that lacked a bcs offer, Streveler, Myrick, Salzwedel, and Wipson all committed in the summer. Which can cause other schools to back off.
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True, but it's not unique to the U. All schools get guys at summer camps, and you could argue it causes other schools to back off.
 

John Galt said:
True, but it's not unique to the U. All schools get guys at summer camps, and you could argue it causes other schools to back off.
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I know that, I wasn't comparing anything to other schools. I just pointed those guys out since we were talking about how so many kids in this class had multiple bcs offers. I'm saying even more of them might have if they didn't commit early. I don't know how this class compares to other big10 classes as far as kids with multiple offers, but it looks pretty good compared to a lot of past gopher classes.
 



EE_Gopher said:
I think the disappointment of the results of 2008 class is really a result of the complete failure of the 2009 class. I think I count about 4 commits from the 2009 class that were relevant last year whereas when you include the junior college members of the 2008 class that were gone by 2009, it had a high number that were either starting or at least contributing. Even Ryan Grant of the 2008 class played a larger role than most of the 2009 class.
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This; after 2008 "the writing was on the wall", "the word was is" whatever cliche one can use to say that it was over for Coach Brewtser.

That research also showed how little Mason and Company cared about Recruiting. Imagine if they would have actually TRIED in 04, 05 and 06?
 

The problem with 2008 is that so many guys never made it into the program or left early.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
That's interesting info. I can't imagine how some people say that they are not accurate.

A 3 star is TWICE as likely to make it to the NFL than a 2 star.
A 4 star is TWICE as likely to make it to the NFL than a 3 star.
A 5 stare is TWICE as likely to make it to the NFL than a 4 star.
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Sounds like a slam dunk analysis, but I think we're forgetting something here: It is probable that NFL scouts and coaches take a closer look at college kids who were highly rated coming into college than those who were nobodies. As such, they are much much much more likely to take a chance drafting a 5* kid than a 2* or 3* kid who has the same set of characteristics coming out of college. That confounds everything a bit.
 

cncmin said:
Sounds like a slam dunk analysis, but I think we're forgetting something here: It is probable that NFL scouts and coaches take a closer look at college kids who were highly rated coming into college than those who were nobodies. As such, they are much much much more likely to take a chance drafting a 5* kid than a 2* or 3* kid who has the same set of characteristics coming out of college. That confounds everything a bit.
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I don't think that's the case in the NFL. They have unlimited resources to search for good players and they use them. Look at some of the schools the players in the NFL played for.

That said, I do hear what you're saying. . .if you're a 5 star, you probably are on everyone's radar longer. I just think that if that has ANY impact it is almost mathematically insignificant and certainly does not speak to the raw data.

The NFL is about winning at all costs, they'll dig to find good football players. It really doesn't take that much digging in today's day and age.
 

GophersInIowa said:
The problem with 2008 is that so many guys never made it into the program or left early.
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Take another look at those lists. It appears that not only did the 2008 class have more kids stay through their Senior year arguably they as a group were more effective. It wasn't that class that brought on the losses it was the Coaching and classes around them that failed. Someone stated that earlier. If the recruiting classes of '05, 06, 07, 09 and 10 performed as well as the 08 class did the discussion around here the last 3 or 4 years would have been about Big Ten Championship contentions not about 6-6 seasons.
 

cncmin said:
Sounds like a slam dunk analysis, but I think we're forgetting something here: It is probable that NFL scouts and coaches take a closer look at college kids who were highly rated coming into college than those who were nobodies. As such, they are much much much more likely to take a chance drafting a 5* kid than a 2* or 3* kid who has the same set of characteristics coming out of college. That confounds everything a bit.
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Not to be rude but you are way off with this one. That might be the case if the NFL was like the NBA and could get guys after a year of college ball. In football you have to be 3 years removed from high school before you are even eligible to enter the draft. I would be willing to bet NFL scouts could care less how a kid was ranked out of high school, they make their selections based on individual workouts and college performance on the field. There is too much money riding in these decisions in the NFL for them to give a crap how many stars a kid had by his name coming out of high school.

Not star related but you can bet if the scouts have two guys that measure out roughly the same but one played at Alabama and the other played at Alcorn State they are probably going to show some preference to the Bama kid based on the competition he faced but it wouldn't be based on which one of them was rated higher by rivals over 3 years ago.
 

Iceland12 said:
Take another look at those lists. It appears that not only did the 2008 class have more kids stay through their Senior year arguably they as a group were more effective. It wasn't that class that brought on the losses it was the Coaching and classes around them that failed. Someone stated that earlier. If the recruiting classes of '05, 06, 07, 09 and 10 performed as well as the 08 class did the discussion around here the last 3 or 4 years would have been about Big Ten Championship contentions not about 6-6 seasons.
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Two of the top four or five rated guys never played for the Gophers (Hill & Maresh). Jewhan Edwards, Brodrick Smith, Kevin Whaley, and Tramaine Brock all transfered. That's six of the top 12 rated players. A descent percentage of the lower rated guys stuck around, but 50% is a pretty significant number of highly rated guys who never finished their career at the U.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Two of the top four or five rated guys never played for the Gophers (Hill & Maresh). Jewhan Edwards, Brodrick Smith, Kevin Whaley, and Tramaine Brock all transfered. That's six of the top 12 rated players. A descent percentage of the lower rated guys stuck around, but 50% is a pretty significant number of highly rated guys who never finished their career at the U.
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If your argument was that the class could have been even better if more of those players have stayed then yeah, that's a good point. Looking for contributors on the field Gray, Cooper, Green, Simmons, Lair, Eskridge, Brock, Kirksey, McKinley, Stoudemire, McKnight, Tinsley and Wilhite all were contributors. That still seems like a bigger number than the classes three years on either side of them.

If you think that they could have been better can't argue with you there. If you think the class just wasn't any good or not good by Gopher standards than that's a tougher argument to make.

If the argument is that you need to have 50% of your top 4 or 5 rated guys play, stay and be your major contributors than it's the only class on that list that comes close to that criteria for success. You can probably go back a few years more and say the same thing.
 

I think it's simply safe to say that retention has been a MAJOR issue for our program, and pretty much the main reason we have sucked recently. Obviously I don't know what other schools commit lists look like compared to actual numbers that contributed to the program, but there are a TON of names in those lists that either didn't even show up, didn't play much at all, or transferred early in their careers. I just can't see how you can be a program worth anything (recruiting at the level we are/and probably will in the future) if you can't hold onto enough kid to field a good sized senior class of contributing players.

That's gonna be the big piece for Jerry Kill. Does he hold onto these commits since 2011? It appears so far, it's been decent. If he can keep improving on that aspect, we'll be in good shape in about two years. Especially if his level of recruiting continues to improve.
 

Monty519 said:
I think it's simply safe to say that retention has been a MAJOR issue for our program, and pretty much the main reason we have sucked recently. Obviously I don't know what other schools commit lists look like compared to actual numbers that contributed to the program, but there are a TON of names in those lists that either didn't even show up, didn't play much at all, or transferred early in their careers. I just can't see how you can be a program worth anything (recruiting at the level we are/and probably will in the future) if you can't hold onto enough kid to field a good sized senior class of contributing players.

That's gonna be the big piece for Jerry Kill. Does he hold onto these commits since 2011? It appears so far, it's been decent. If he can keep improving on that aspect, we'll be in good shape in about two years. Especially if his level of recruiting continues to improve.
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Yep, retention has been our largest problem. I also lump "not getting kids into school" with retention. Recruiting rankings GENUINELY mean nothing if the player never steps foot onto the campus. But you're right, our biggest issue has been retention.

Even when you look at the 2008 class, it often gets blasted but if we had 4 classes of that caliber and we retained all of our players, we would have been a genuinely good football team.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Yep, retention has been our largest problem. I also lump "not getting kids into school" with retention. Recruiting rankings GENUINELY mean nothing if the player never steps foot onto the campus. But you're right, our biggest issue has been retention.

Even when you look at the 2008 class, it often gets blasted but if we had 4 classes of that caliber and we retained all of our players, we would have been a genuinely good football team.
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+1
 

The 2008 class was okay, even with the high level of loss. But there never was much talent except for some local kids in the 2009 and 2010 classes. Additionally, we really screwed up in under recruiting o-linemen, and it was compounded when several such as Gjere, and the big tackle from Indiana were lost due to concussion syndrome.
I don't know this for a fact, but I assume there were rules enforced after 2008, about which kids could get in school that eliminated a bunch of the players similar to the ones that got in in 2008 and could not stick.
I have not been able to reconcile the absolute collapse of Brewster's recruiting in one year any other way with many of the same assistants.
 

I don't think the 2008 class was bad, it just never turned out nearly as well as it looked on paper.
 

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