I agree with Breakin' the Plane, you try to redshirt at absolutely all costs. Our prospects for 2012 would be looking so good if McKnight, Kirksey, Tinsley, and Stoud were all heading into their JR seasons this year.
That said, if Shortell is the obvious second best player and he has a chance to see significant PT, I don't think you can afford to do it. What I mean is that a situation where Gray is going to miss signficant PT, then you burn it and let Shortell run. If it is just in minor subsitutions for Gray and mop up duty....I don't burn the RS.
Gray has to be on the field he is that good. He is one of the best receivers. I would start Shortell at QB and have McKnight and Gray as the best WR tandem in the Big Ten. We need to win now, to start the turn around and improve our out state recruiting.
Alipate is buried - I was at practice on Monday and believe me, right now, there's one guy he may be ahead of, but that QB signals the plays in (and holds). I think the issue is as much about leadership as anything. Kill has talked often about the QB is the leader - no matter what - hence his challenges to M Gray. Thus, your QB/Leader cannot be a guy who doesn't work - period. Alipate may be a nice kid and all, but even watching him doing warmups - it's like he's out for a walk in the park. Your QB has to a) care, and b) work, and maybe Alipate cares, but his demeanor doesn't show it, and by not getting in shape, he doesn't appear to work either.
For those of you who have attended practice, has Shortell outperformed Parish? I'm guessing his upside is probably higher than Parish's but is he more ready right now?
I hope this is a joke. becuase Gray should not be a WR. He is our starting QB. no way should Shortell should be our starting QB. Gray better then him.
On Sid's show Sunday, Kill at least twice used the phrase "empty classes" in describing the team's depth - in other words, due to attrition from a couple of Brewster's classes, Kill says the Gophs don't have the depth he wants, and they will likely to forced to play true freshmen this year.
Here's my point - unless it becomes a matter of survival, I would like to see Kill redshirt as many FR as possible. The U has been losing the numbers game to other big 10 schools for too long. Look at Wisconsin - they almost always have 3 or 4 5th-year seniors in their offensive lines. That's how you build a team to compete in the Big 10.
I think Kill needs to take a long-term approach to building this team. I would rather see the Gophs bite the bullet this year and redshirt most of the FR, even if it costs the team in the final standings.
I realize that would not sit well with a lot of fans and boosters, but the U has to stop taking the short-term approach to building a FB team. They just need to be honest about what they're doing and why, and I think the real fans would understand.
Coach Kill is not one to do short-sighted things or knuckle under to pressure. I think that has been proven over and over in his history. The way that the 2012 class is shaping up, it is abundantly clear that he is not worried about playing Freshman like Shortell (2 QBs in 2012 class, maybe a 3rd), and maybe Foster Bush and Tommy Olson (Hayes and Pirsig in 2012).
Even Crawford-Tufts may get a look at WR with Fruechte and likely another WR coming in 2012.
Anyone that believes that Kill would burn redshirts this year for no other reason that to get quick or short-term results in 2011 doesn't understand what the man is about.
I disagree with the general sentiment of most here. I think you try to find out who your two deep is based on demonstrated ability in the spring and fall and you redshirt any freshman who isn't in it.
You hope to build a program where a year's worth of experience puts returning players head and shoulders above the new guys so that you seldom play freshmen but that is an outcome, not something engineered by benching better players. Wisconsin does not have a lot of fifth year seniors because they redshifted a better player to somehow save him for the future. They play their good freshmen (see Taylor, Borland, White, etc.).
When the difference between the 2 and 3 is VERY close, then I can see 'breaking the tie' by playing the older guy and saving a season for the freshman.
Bob_Loblaw said:Good post.
I think most of us agree with this sentiment, it's actually exactly how I think.
I think the best players should round up the depth chart. I have no problem with us burning the RS of Jones, DCT, Olson, Campion or any other freshman who will see a decent chunk of playing time.
However, I think a lot this debate comes down because the QB position is often different. If Shortell will see significant PT, I don't think any of us would want the U to keep his RS. However, if he isn't going to see PT (which is different than a 6th OL (Campion) or a 5th WR (DCT)), I don't think it's really worth burning his RS simply to pencil him in over someone he is marginally better than (Parish).
badgergopher said:I get that. What makes this a little peculiar for us is that Weber played all the time. Knowing what we know now, if Max was backing up Weber we'd all say, 'don't burn his RS'. Most QB's probably aren't as durable as AW, so we'll probably need our #2.