Potential Lineups for this Season

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GopherBlood666 said:

I would rather go Mitchell, Carrington, Christie, Garcia, Payne. First 3 off the bench being Hawkins, JOJ, Ihnen. What do you think GH?
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Mitchell and Hawkins have already proved themselves as starters TWICE EACH and should not have to come off the bench behind Christie or Carrington. The starting 3 should be Betts, Ihnen or JOJ, whomever is the most impressive in preseason practices and games. Once the regular season starts, they will play themselves in or out of starting positions.
 

Sane24 said:
Mitchell and Hawkins have already proved themselves as starters TWICE EACH and should not have to come off the bench behind Christie or Carrington. The starting 3 should be Betts, Ihnen or JOJ, whomever is the most impressive in preseason practices and games. Once the regular season starts, they will play themselves in or out of starting positions.
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If either Hawkins or Mitchell come off the bench in the first preseason game, they may be in the transfer portal by halftime.
I would bet they were both "promised" starting positions to transfer to the Gophers.
 

Sane24 said:
Mitchell and Hawkins have already proved themselves as starters TWICE EACH and should not have to come off the bench behind Christie or Carrington. The starting 3 should be Betts, Ihnen or JOJ, whomever is the most impressive in preseason practices and games. Once the regular season starts, they will play themselves in or out of starting positions.
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I agree that Hawkins would be on paper a starter relative to our roster, but you cannot leave yourself with no fire power on the bench. Carrington or Christie start making dumb plays, then you yank them and Hawkins or JOJ comes in. It would be great if Ben could use his bench to hold starters accountable so there is actual growth amongst the team as the season progresses. If Ben goes best 5, I feel like he will just run the starters ragged like he has the past 2 seasons (because we had no reliable depth on the bench).
 

GopherBlood666 said:

I would rather go Mitchell, Carrington, Christie, Garcia, Payne. First 3 off the bench being Hawkins, JOJ, Ihnen. What do you think GH?
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If Ihnen is ready physically, I like it. The lineup offers defense, solid speed, and really good rebounding potential as well as a couple of really good 3 point shooters. The good news about this year is that we have several other combinations offering the same thing. If you aren't playing good defense, the coach should be sitting your fanny on the bench. That's what we need and have lacked.

If this were the lineup we have Christie and Carrington available to come in and light it up off the bench. Betts, Fox and JOJ to defend and hit the boards.

I talked to a guy a few days ago who knows a U guy who is at every practice. He sees good possibilities for a middle of the pack finish for this team if they jell.
 


GopherBlood666 said:
I agree that Hawkins would be on paper a starter relative to our roster, but you cannot leave yourself with no fire power on the bench. Carrington or Christie start making dumb plays, then you yank them and Hawkins or JOJ comes in. It would be great if Ben could use his bench to hold starters accountable so there is actual growth amongst the team as the season progresses. If Ben goes best 5, I feel like he will just run the starters ragged like he has the past 2 seasons (because we had no reliable depth on the bench).
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In the past two years there was a pretty steep drop off after the first 5 or 6 guys. Last year by the end of the year it went 7-8. This year it could go 9-10 deep. Run 'em and rest 'em. Nobody should play more than 30 minutes on this team. Although I bet Garcia still does....
 

I think kids who worry about if they start or not is one of the dumbest things ever. I know they do but who cares, you want to be a guy who starts and plays 8 minutes or do you just want to play 30 min and be in the game when it counts?

I would guess the 5 listed is the starting group yes. And if CBJ has proven anything, it's that he has 0 idea how to run a good rotation so I'm sure he will take out 3 of them for 2 minutes, have Carrington, Christie and JOJ in, it will look like a mess and he'll go right back to the starters who will all play 34 minutes and look tired.

If you start that group I would give them 4ish minutes, then put in a Carrington and keep either Hawkins or Mitchell out there and play JOJ with 2-3 guys who can shoot. Then 8 min in come back with say Christie, Mitchell, II, JOJ, Payne type lineup so you always have a few scoring options and a veteran play maker on the floor.

Do I personally think CBJ will do the smart thing, past history says no, but I guess we will see.
 

bga1 said:
In the past two years there was a pretty steep drop off after the first 5 or 6 guys. Last year by the end of the year it went 7-8. This year it could go 9-10 deep. Run 'em and rest 'em. Nobody should play more than 30 minutes on this team. Although I bet Garcia still does....
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First season he trusted only 6, last season he trusted 7 by BTT time. If he makes it to 8 this year that will be positive. Ben has shown no ability yet to mix in more guys than that, but I am optimistic we will have 8 guys he will trust this year.
 

GopherBlood666 said:
First season he trusted only 6, last season he trusted 7 by BTT time. If he makes it to 8 this year that will be positive. Ben has shown no ability yet to mix in more guys than that, but I am optimistic we will have 8 guys he will trust this year.
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Actually he has - up to now, shown no ability to put together a competent roster. We have no idea what he would do if he had one. I think he now has one. If you had Samuels would you play him? That right there is the problem. Year one his 7th and 8th and 9th guys were Thiam, Daniels and Thompson if I recall correctly. Neither were really playable at the Big Ten level.
 



Sane24 said:
If either Hawkins or Mitchell come off the bench in the first preseason game, they may be in the transfer portal by halftime.
I would bet they were both "promised" starting positions to transfer to the Gophers.
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Ridiculous.

I bet Hawkins is the 6th man. He will still see plenty of minutes, and it's easier to stagger the minutes of both PGs if one of them comes off the bench.
 

I'd prefer one of Carrington or Christie start at the 2, and one of JOJ/Ihnen/Betts starts at the 3.

Would be nice to have a good blend of experience and youth in the starting 5 and the bench rotation.
 

People are forgetting that Hawkins was the starting PG and leading scorer for a tourney team. As well as 1st team All-Conference. Definitely needs to cut down on some of the turnovers, but I doubt he comes off the bench.
 

bga1 said:
Actually he has - up to now, shown no ability to put together a competent roster. We have no idea what he would do if he had one. I think he now has one. If you had Samuels would you play him? That right there is the problem. Year one his 7th and 8th and 9th guys were Thiam, Daniels and Thompson if I recall correctly. Neither were really playable at the Big Ten level.
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Using last year's roster as an example, I would have used Samuels, Thompson, and even Ramberg last year for at least 1 appearance each game (appx. 4-6 mins). In year one, I would have worked in Thompson a lot more, especially after he played all 40 in the victory over Rutgers. Ramberg/Thiam could have played more minutes that year as well. Ben gave up too early on Thiam in my opinion. Why Ben totally buried these guys in the midst of multiple seasons that were pretty obviously over very early is beyond my comprehension. When Ben buries someone, so far they do not reappear. That makes sense when you have a good team playing in meaningful games, not when you are losing games and trying to build for the future.
 



GopherBlood666 said:
Using last year's roster as an example, I would have used Samuels, Thompson, and even Ramberg last year for at least 1 appearance each game (appx. 4-6 mins). In year one, I would have worked in Thompson a lot more, especially after he played all 40 in the victory over Rutgers. Ramberg/Thiam could have played more minutes that year as well. Ben gave up too early on Thiam in my opinion. Why Ben totally buried these guys in the midst of multiple seasons that were pretty obviously over very early is beyond my comprehension. When Ben buries someone, so far they do not reappear. That makes sense when you have a good team playing in meaningful games, not when you are losing games and trying to build for the future.
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Other than Ramberg- the other players make you look bad. He tried it early in the season and none of them performed will. I will say this, I would have sat Battle for Ramberg 5 more minutes a game. Ramberg plays in the system and plays hard despite a lack of offensive talent.
 

Zeppelin Gopher said:
Ridiculous.

I bet Hawkins is the 6th man. He will still see plenty of minutes, and it's easier to stagger the minutes of both PGs if one of them comes off the bench.
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It is easy to stagger PGs if:
1) they both start
2) after 5? minutes SG1 replaces PG2
3) after 10? minutes SG2 replaces PG1
and PG2 replaces SG1
4) after 15? minutes, PG1 replaces SG2
 

GopherBlood666 said:
Using last year's roster as an example, I would have used Samuels, Thompson, and even Ramberg last year for at least 1 appearance each game (appx. 4-6 mins). In year one, I would have worked in Thompson a lot more, especially after he played all 40 in the victory over Rutgers. Ramberg/Thiam could have played more minutes that year as well. Ben gave up too early on Thiam in my opinion. Why Ben totally buried these guys in the midst of multiple seasons that were pretty obviously over very early is beyond my comprehension. When Ben buries someone, so far they do not reappear. That makes sense when you have a good team playing in meaningful games, not when you are losing games and trying to build for the future.
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Ben has undoubtedly made a lot of blunders, but this was not one of them. Thiam couldn't dribble the basketball and didn't make one three-pointer that season. He was a warm body for practice and was only recruited to round out a roster very late in the cycle in Ben's 1st season.

I think Ramberg should be used sparingly, mostly when the young players make bad plays, poor effort, etc. He's not going to light the world on fire, but he will play hard, get rebounds, and move without the basketball on offense. He might have led the team in "cutting layups" last season, even with his limited minutes.
 

I don't really mind which guards start, but Ihnen at the 3 is inexcusably awful.

I could be wrong and he could have completely revolutionized his game but if he is anything like he was prior to injury in terms of style, this is a catastrophic level of incompetence. You cannot simply roll out a PF who can shoot as a wing. They aren't the same thing. You would have thought we learned the lesson last year with Battle. At least with THAT awful decision, Battle had actually proven he was a good shooter for a PF. With Ihnen, we just kind of think he can shoot.

Our guards/wings need to be a combo of Hawkins, Mitchell, Carrington and Christie for the vast majority of minutes. I get that would mean one of our 5 best players isn't a starter but positions matter. A guard is not just a forward who can (theoretically) shoot the ball.
 

topos said:
Ben has undoubtedly made a lot of blunders, but this was not one of them. Thiam couldn't dribble the basketball and didn't make one three-pointer that season. He was a warm body for practice and was only recruited to round out a roster very late in the cycle in Ben's 1st season.

I think Ramberg should be used sparingly, mostly when the young players make bad plays, poor effort, etc. He's not going to light the world on fire, but he will play hard, get rebounds, and move without the basketball on offense. He might have led the team in "cutting layups" last season, even with his limited minutes.
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I would have rather given Thiam some run than not used a scholarship last year and then given one to Jack Wilson this year. Thiam is not a very good basketball player but he would have been a better use of a scholarship than how we ended up using one of them each year.

I also think if we landed a guy in the portal who put 13.6 4.1 on 40/35 splits from High Point, this board would be pumped.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I would have rather given Thiam some run than not used a scholarship last year and then given one to Jack Wilson this year. Thiam is not a very good basketball player but he would have been a better use of a scholarship than how we ended up using one of them each year.

I also think if we landed a guy in the portal who put 13.6 4.1 on 40/35 splits from High Point, this board would be pumped.
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We don't know that Ben ran Thiam off. It may well be that he self identified. I would have loved to have kept him.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I would have rather given Thiam some run than not used a scholarship last year and then given one to Jack Wilson this year. Thiam is not a very good basketball player but he would have been a better use of a scholarship than how we ended up using one of them each year.

I also think if we landed a guy in the portal who put 13.6 4.1 on 40/35 splits from High Point, this board would be pumped.
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Hindsight is 20/20. Giving Thiam some run probably would have been wise, and I'd even bet he would have been more of an asset than Samuels last year.

But Thiam didn't deserve any run during the actual season and was objectively awful. We would have all been complaining in the offseason if he was still on the team and expected to contribute in the 2022/2023 season.

I think Ben's mistake was thinking he could recruit (from high school or portal) a better player than Thiam the following year, which didn't happen. A hypothetical Thiam scoring 6 pts a game last year and shooting mid-30% from three off the bench would have been quite the upgrade over Samuels. I also think Thiam had the potential to defend.

I assume Ben always saw Thiam as a Year 1 plug and never foresaw a future pending some insane and unexpected improvement. I could be wrong; as BGA pointed out, maybe Ben tried to keep him, but Thiam wanted a more prominent role.

With the information we had during the 2021/2022 season, I think a transfer was the best course of action for all parties. Not backfilling properly is on the staff...
 

Definitely more options this season in terms of a starting lineup. For starters I'll go:

Carrington
Mitchell
Christie
Payne
Garcia

Had a hard time not putting Ola Joseph in the lineup. Either way, he'll get a ton of minutes. Like his potential.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Definitely more options this season in terms of a starting lineup. For starters I'll go:

Carrington
Mitchell
Christie
Payne
Garcia

Had a hard time not putting Ola Joseph in the lineup. Either way, he'll get a ton of minutes. Like his potential.
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It’s nice to finally feel like there is a question about the starting lineup in more tha one slot!
 

It’s a shame more of the Gopher fans are stuck in the past and do not recognize the future. We have at least 10 B1G quality starters. We have never seen close to that. We have played with 2 or 3 quality players during the Johnson tenure. He has done unbelievable recruiting and it appears to be getting even better. 23-24? It is a 20 win season.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Definitely more options this season in terms of a starting lineup. For starters I'll go:

Carrington
Mitchell
Christie
Payne
Garcia

Had a hard time not putting Ola Joseph in the lineup. Either way, he'll get a ton of minutes. Like his potential.
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That is 6. You missed at least 4 more.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Definitely more options this season in terms of a starting lineup. For starters I'll go:

Carrington
Mitchell
Christie
Payne
Garcia

Had a hard time not putting Ola Joseph in the lineup. Either way, he'll get a ton of minutes. Like his potential.
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That lineup starts three guards, NONE OF WHICH is as good as Hawkins who starts on the bench. I don't understand that.....
 

Sane24 said:
That lineup starts three guards, NONE OF WHICH is as good as Hawkins who starts on the bench. I don't understand that.....
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With the exception of Garcia and maybe Payne this team is constructed for 20 minute players. I hope Ben gets that. Maybe I should fly in for a practice and sit down with him.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I don't really mind which guards start, but Ihnen at the 3 is inexcusably awful.

I could be wrong and he could have completely revolutionized his game but if he is anything like he was prior to injury in terms of style, this is a catastrophic level of incompetence. You cannot simply roll out a PF who can shoot as a wing. They aren't the same thing. You would have thought we learned the lesson last year with Battle. At least with THAT awful decision, Battle had actually proven he was a good shooter for a PF. With Ihnen, we just kind of think he can shoot.

Our guards/wings need to be a combo of Hawkins, Mitchell, Carrington and Christie for the vast majority of minutes. I get that would mean one of our 5 best players isn't a starter but positions matter. A guard is not just a forward who can (theoretically) shoot the ball.
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If the stories of Betts dominating Battle in practice are true, then Betts, Christie and JOJ should play the 3 and Ihnen and Garcia should play the 4.
 

We have a lot of players that can play 3 positions seamlessly. Athletic and talented. Talent. Effective combinations for every situation. Let’s use them.
 

Sane24 said:
If the stories of Betts dominating Battle in practice are true, then Betts, Christie and JOJ should play the 3 and Ihnen and Garcia should play the 4.
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If the stories of Betts dominating Battle were true, he would have played last year.

They were made up by 1 person pretending to be 3 people.
 

topos said:
Ben has undoubtedly made a lot of blunders, but this was not one of them. Thiam couldn't dribble the basketball and didn't make one three-pointer that season. He was a warm body for practice and was only recruited to round out a roster very late in the cycle in Ben's 1st season.

I think Ramberg should be used sparingly, mostly when the young players make bad plays, poor effort, etc. He's not going to light the world on fire, but he will play hard, get rebounds, and move without the basketball on offense. He might have led the team in "cutting layups" last season, even with his limited minutes.
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Yeah I like Ramberg but would prefer to not see him play if possible. We just had no choice the last 2 seasons per the depth we had and he still barely played.
 

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