Post Game Thread: Gophers Have Massive Meltdown Again, Fall to 0-10 to Bielema, Fail Again With BTW In Grasp

[mngg11]

That's the fucking point. He's a raw talent and there's absolutely no one on Fleck's staff with the ability to develop him. That's on Phillip John.

The only fault of the staff is keeping him on the field week after week at this point. He's not some giant clump of coal that's waiting for the right qb guru to polish him into a sparkling diamond, he's a dirt covered piece of basalt. I've seen enough over 10 games that my opinion isn't changing.

There are some fundamental basics they teach in high school that aren't there. Just because a guy can throw 75 yards at 90mph doesn't mean you have to play him. Especially when he plays super tight and collapses like a wet paper bag when under pressure. He doesn't have ice water in his veins to make up for the lack in basic skills, either. Illinois' #2 came in and kicked our ass, cold and off the bench. What he may have lacked in talent he had more than enough in guts and a desire to win.

 

[mngg11]

I personally can't take anymore of these losses. I would much rather lose 42-7 than watch another miracle victory for an (often) inferior opponent in the waning seconds of a 3 hour game. There can't be another program (and it's not just under PJ but there's been a TON under PJ) where the oppostion completes a 4th an 11 to get to the 37 yard line with like a minute and ten seconds left and no timeouts with their backup QB in the game...and the fanbase collectively feels like the game winning TD is not just possible, but basically inevitable Or when Tyler Nubin gets the pick at like the 40 yard line with approximately 4 minutes left...and my (and I assume our) reaction is "too much time left, we'll go 3 and out and they'll have plenty of time for a second chance".

What happens when we get the ball with 50 seconds left at the 25, 2 timeouts and needing maybe 40 yards? We don't complete a single pass, and none of the 4 plays we ran looked even close. Just completely inept football and it's literally every single time the Gopher offense is in this spot late in a game.

Other people have stated it but, outside of 2019, these "x win seasons" have been very hollow. Fleck has been incredibly fortunate to play some of the easiest schedules we've ever had. There have been horrible losses every single season since '19. In the Covid year, we were favored by almost the exact number over Maryland as Michigan was against this Gophers this year! Nobody even remembers that game because there have been so many horrific losses over the last 4 seasons. One of the reporters in the post game said this was a "dark day" and Fleck responded that it wasn't a dark day, and I just can't imagine him not grasping the gravity of this situation. Not getting to Indy this year in THIS B1G West is just an absolute nightmare for this program. Next year the schedule starts Iowa, at Michigan, USC, at UCLA. If they don't take care of business at home against Iowa, just absolutely write off '24 because it's going to be really ugly. So we're 4 years removed from 2019 and it's hard to see us going 7-2 against that '24 schedule which would require beating Michigan, USC, or Penn State and sweeping everyone else. Or, you know, you just handle buisness against Northwestern and Illinois and you are a 1 loss Big Ten team going to Purdue next week and might have a trip to Indy wrapped up before Wisconsin even gets here. It's hard to see a positive path forward for this program when we consistently drop multiple games to teams you can't lose to in order to win a B1G West title.

Would you prefer 6 win seasons where we go almost 20 years without taking the axe but every other year we beat one of psu/osu/um? It's six in one, half a dozen in the other. I'll take the wins and the consistency in the trophy games. Otherwise we may as well just quit being fans and put our time elsewhere.

Every team has a ceiling. Without big time donors and big time NIL, this is peak Gopher football. Take it or leave it. I'm both certain and resigned to the fact that there is no coaching change that will improve this program as it is in the general cfb landscape, and any change will lead to a regression back to the 90s-00s mean because this school and the entire infrastructure around it sucks.

 

[EG#9]

Would you prefer 6 win seasons where we go almost 20 years without taking the axe but every other year we beat one of psu/osu/um? It's six in one, half a dozen in the other. I'll take the wins and the consistency in the trophy games. Otherwise we may as well just quit being fans and put our time elsewhere.

Every team has a ceiling. Without big time donors and big time NIL, this is peak Gopher football. Take it or leave it. I'm both certain and resigned to the fact that there is no coaching change that will improve this program as it is in the general cfb landscape, and any change will lead to a regression back to the 90s-00s mean because this school and the entire infrastructure around it sucks.

There is no reason Minnesota can't be better than Iowa or Wisconsin. For the vast majority of our history we have been. There is more money (in terms of business, average salary, individual wealth) than either state. The population is larger than Iowa's and similar to Wisconsin's. NIL also has nothing to do with losing any of the games PJ lost that have been absolute killers going back to 2019 and the losses to both Iowa and Wisconsin through the losses to Northwestern and Illinios this year. I am not sure we have consistency in the rivalry games. Beating Wisconsin 3 out of 5 is great, but they decided that mandated a coaching change on their end (and Chryst was 2-2 in the last 4 against the Gophers with Leonhard taking the last L). No coach in the history of Gopher football had ever lost 6 times in a row to Iowa before PJ Fleck. In total we are 1-6 against Iowa and 3-3 against Wisconsin so more than 2 L's for every 1 W.

The changing landscape of college football is exactly why not taking advantage of any of these years post 2019 is so devastating. I think Iowa/Wisconsin/Minnesota are all in the same boat in the new B1G and at most one of them will succeed. We could have simply beat Iowa or Wisconsin in '19 or Iowa in '21 or some combination of Iowa/Illinois/Purdue in '22 or Illinois/Northwestern in '23 and played in a B1G championship game...we probably won't ever be ables to say that again as those wins will be necessary just to avoid a losing B1G season. The momentum that would have provided the program would have been invaluable. Fleck has made it tougher on himself with these horrible losses to compete (on the field, NIL, etc) and it's really tough to see things improving from this point forward with much tougher schedules.

 

[U2Gopher]

Or when Tyler Nubin gets the pick at like the 40 yard line with approximately 4 minutes left...and my (and I assume our) reaction is "too much time left, we'll go 3 and out and they'll have plenty of time for a second chance".

I absolutely think this every time we end up in that situation. It seems like so many times under Fleck we’ve had chances to end games with closing drives and haven’t gotten it done. It would have happened in Iowa this year had the Hawkeyes not had the worst QB/offense in the history of college football. And what’s most frustrating about how that game unfolded, is that it was an EXACT replay of almost every single Fleck loss to Iowa. He still thinks he’s doing this the best way. It’s unreal!!!

I was going to mention that Maryland game in my original post. I damn sure haven’t forgotten about that one. I didn’t because it was the COVID year, but you know what, that doesn’t really matter. Every team had to deal with it and that loss was just another debacle.

 

[Stan]

I personally can't take anymore of these losses. I would much rather lose 42-7 than watch another miracle victory for an (often) inferior opponent in the waning seconds of a 3 hour game. There can't be another program (and it's not just under PJ but there's been a TON under PJ) where the oppostion completes a 4th an 11 to get to the 37 yard line with like a minute and ten seconds left and no timeouts with their backup QB in the game...and the fanbase collectively feels like the game winning TD is not just possible, but basically inevitable Or when Tyler Nubin gets the pick at like the 40 yard line with approximately 4 minutes left...and my (and I assume our) reaction is "too much time left, we'll go 3 and out and they'll have plenty of time for a second chance".

What happens when we get the ball with 50 seconds left at the 25, 2 timeouts and needing maybe 40 yards? We don't complete a single pass, and none of the 4 plays we ran looked even close. Just completely inept football and it's literally every single time the Gopher offense is in this spot late in a game.

Other people have stated it but, outside of 2019, these "x win seasons" have been very hollow. Fleck has been incredibly fortunate to play some of the easiest schedules we've ever had. There have been horrible losses every single season since '19. In the Covid year, we were favored by almost the exact number over Maryland as Michigan was against this Gophers this year! Nobody even remembers that game because there have been so many horrific losses over the last 4 seasons. One of the reporters in the post game said this was a "dark day" and Fleck responded that it wasn't a dark day, and I just can't imagine him not grasping the gravity of this situation. Not getting to Indy this year in THIS B1G West is just an absolute nightmare for this program. Next year the schedule starts Iowa, at Michigan, USC, at UCLA. If they don't take care of business at home against Iowa, just absolutely write off '24 because it's going to be really ugly. So we're 4 years removed from 2019 and it's hard to see us going 7-2 against that '24 schedule which would require beating Michigan, USC, or Penn State and sweeping everyone else. Or, you know, you just handle buisness against Northwestern and Illinois and you are a 1 loss Big Ten team going to Purdue next week and might have a trip to Indy wrapped up before Wisconsin even gets here. It's hard to see a positive path forward for this program when we consistently drop multiple games to teams you can't lose to in order to win a B1G West title.

This, so much this.

 

[SHGopher]

Minnesota beat Iowa. Yea!

And then Northwestern and Illinois [edit name] games were blown opportunities for a very good season.

The last year of divisions, winning the West Championship was in striking range, with Iowa and Wisconsin having issues and the rest an uneven mess.

What the heck happened!

Long-term the QB'ing hasn't been close to acceptable, though the last two games showed progress.

What could have been but for upset losses to Northwestern and Illinois, losing it at the end.

Oh, and Sean Tyler was a good signing that has inexplecibly been a fumble disaster with poor running results too. How did this sharp change happen? Because the other RB's are doing well it's really puzzling.

 

[Gopherchase]

The two point conversion play call and the feeble attempt to move into field-goal position at the end of the game were completely embarrassing. 50 seconds and two timeouts that should be a 50-50 shot to get into field-goal range for cannon legged kicker.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

The two point conversion play call and the feeble attempt to move into field-goal position at the end of the game were completely embarrassing. 50 seconds and two timeouts that should be a 50-50 shot to get into field-goal range for cannon legged kicker.

Agreed. With that clock and timeout situation, it wasn't going to take a miracle, just efficiency and execution.

 

[Gopherchase]

I just got the highlights cause I and listened to the game but how many butts were in the seats at the stadium?

 

[Nax5]

There is no reason Minnesota can't be better than Iowa or Wisconsin. For the vast majority of our history we have been. There is more money (in terms of business, average salary, individual wealth) than either state. The population is larger than Iowa's and similar to Wisconsin's. NIL also has nothing to do with losing any of the games PJ lost that have been absolute killers going back to 2019 and the losses to both Iowa and Wisconsin through the losses to Northwestern and Illinios this year. I am not sure we have consistency in the rivalry games. Beating Wisconsin 3 out of 5 is great, but they decided that mandated a coaching change on their end (and Chryst was 2-2 in the last 4 against the Gophers with Leonhard taking the last L). No coach in the history of Gopher football had ever lost 6 times in a row to Iowa before PJ Fleck. In total we are 1-6 against Iowa and 3-3 against Wisconsin so more than 2 L's for every 1 W.

The changing landscape of college football is exactly why not taking advantage of any of these years post 2019 is so devastating. I think Iowa/Wisconsin/Minnesota are all in the same boat in the new B1G and at most one of them will succeed. We could have simply beat Iowa or Wisconsin in '19 or Iowa in '21 or some combination of Iowa/Illinois/Purdue in '22 or Illinois/Northwestern in '23 and played in a B1G championship game...we probably won't ever be ables to say that again as those wins will be necessary just to avoid a losing B1G season. The momentum that would have provided the program would have been invaluable. Fleck has made it tougher on himself with these horrible losses to compete (on the field, NIL, etc) and it's really tough to see things improving from this point forward with much tougher schedules.

You've got it exactly right. 2019 was great, no doubt. But I don't give a crap about any # of wins after it, because the team failed when it mattered over and over. (Which arguably happened in 2019 as well). It felt like the window was closing this year, with the new age of CFB brimming. And once again, we let it slip away.

 

[Allshade]

Maybe that Illinois backup QB wants to transfer here.

Why would he? Our coaching staffs would ruin him!

 

[Vandy]

Failure to recruit and/or develop a competent qb killed us. It has nothing to do with Fleck but that. We were in a position to win at the end of the game but our defense collapsed against a cold backup qb for the other team and our quarterback cannot hit the broadside of a barn. Poor play calling, shit pass accuracy, no looking off receivers, poor mechanics.

Fix it or replace it. Too late to fix it. No name IL qb #2 who hasn't played any significant time all year looked more confident and light years ahead of our starter who's been playing all year.

If the offense plays to win, we pick up a first down and run out the clock. Illinois can’t win withe ball. Keep giving the ball back assuming the can hold every time, eventually lightning will strike.

 

[Breakin' The Plane]

I just got the highlights cause I and listened to the game but how many butts were in the seats at the stadium?

I'd guess 10k empty.
It's OK though, because the Nebraska and Michigan games were sellouts, and that clearly wasn't because of opposing fans.

 

[gopherdudepart2]

I just got the highlights cause I and listened to the game but how many butts were in the seats at the stadium?

It looked like 10000 to 15,000 bailed and left by tge 4th quarter because they were bored, needed to beat traffic.

 

[btowngopher]

Typical Minnesota attitude… 9 wins, yay, we’re big time! Iowa and Wisconsin aren’t settling for 9 wins. Yet Minnesota seems to think that’s a sign of great success. If you’re happy with 9 wins, Fleck may be your guy. Not mine.

Iowa is settling for 9 wins, Wisconsin maybe isn’t, but might be wishing they had. How many wins are you happy with as a floor? You might need to root for a new team because the reality is that it’s damn hard to win here.

 

[btowngopher]

There is no reason Minnesota can't be better than Iowa or Wisconsin. For the vast majority of our history we have been. There is more money (in terms of business, average salary, individual wealth) than either state. The population is larger than Iowa's and similar to Wisconsin's. NIL also has nothing to do with losing any of the games PJ lost that have been absolute killers going back to 2019 and the losses to both Iowa and Wisconsin through the losses to Northwestern and Illinios this year. I am not sure we have consistency in the rivalry games. Beating Wisconsin 3 out of 5 is great, but they decided that mandated a coaching change on their end (and Chryst was 2-2 in the last 4 against the Gophers with Leonhard taking the last L). No coach in the history of Gopher football had ever lost 6 times in a row to Iowa before PJ Fleck. In total we are 1-6 against Iowa and 3-3 against Wisconsin so more than 2 L's for every 1 W.

The changing landscape of college football is exactly why not taking advantage of any of these years post 2019 is so devastating. I think Iowa/Wisconsin/Minnesota are all in the same boat in the new B1G and at most one of them will succeed. We could have simply beat Iowa or Wisconsin in '19 or Iowa in '21 or some combination of Iowa/Illinois/Purdue in '22 or Illinois/Northwestern in '23 and played in a B1G championship game...we probably won't ever be ables to say that again as those wins will be necessary just to avoid a losing B1G season. The momentum that would have provided the program would have been invaluable. Fleck has made it tougher on himself with these horrible losses to compete (on the field, NIL, etc) and it's really tough to see things improving from this point forward with much tougher schedules.

Winning those games wouldn’t have changed the program going forward. We’d just have something a little more special to look back on.

 

[Gopherchase]

Iowa is settling for 9 wins, Wisconsin maybe isn’t, but might be wishing they had. How many wins are you happy with as a floor? You might need to root for a new team because the reality is that it’s damn hard to win here.

We’ve had a remarkably long string of indifferent administrations at the U, incompetent athletic directors and half ass coaches. Wisconsin’s football team, and overall athletic program, was way worse than ours pre-Shalala, Richter, and Alvarez. We’ve never had that sort of thing happen here where we get committed and talented folks starting at the top at the same time dedicated to making it work—which is why we continue to struggle. It has nothing to do inherently other than decades of bad hires IMO.

 

[PMWinSTP]

We’ve had a remarkably long string of indifferent administrations at the U, incompetent athletic directors and half ass coaches. Wisconsin’s football team, and overall athletic program, was way worse than ours pre-Shalala, Richter, and Alvarez. We’ve never had that sort of thing happen here where we get committed and talented folks starting at the top at the same time dedicated to making it work—which is why we continue to struggle. It has nothing to do inherently other than decades of bad hires IMO.

Yeah, we need to get that indifferent administration to show some commitment by spending some dollars on better facilities, a first class new stadium on campus, and pony up the dollars for a "big time" HC. Oh, wait...

 

[btowngopher]

If the offense plays to win, we pick up a first down and run out the clock. Illinois can’t win withe ball. Keep giving the ball back assuming the can hold every time, eventually lightning will strike.

I don’t really understand, did they not try to get a first down?

 

[tikited]

Bad team. Bad season. Looking forward to next year.

Next year will be worse.

 

[Dakota2]

Start doling out the big bucks to the school then, brother. 9 wins is our ceiling in the current iteration of "amateur college football." Unless the Vikings dump a shit ton of money into our NIL this is the best you'll get. But methinks you just like to bitch.

How is 8-9 wins the ceiling when coach gives one or two wins away each year? Wouldn’t the actual ceiling be higher?

 

[mngg11]

How is 8-9 wins the ceiling when coach gives one or two wins away each year? Wouldn’t the actual ceiling be higher?

Because it's been shown that 1-2 giveaways leading to losses are a guarantee with this staff.

 

[Laker]

They don’t look very good either.

Oh ya, they suck. Aren’t they like 9-0. They have a first year Qb and still somehow manage to win. They will sink the Minnesota rowboat faster than the US Navy sinking an Iraqi patrol boat. Get a grip.

 

[Ewert86PC]

It's no longer about culture. It's about consistency bred from culture.