PJ Fleck compares Gophers' 'line of success' to the stock market

My response to that would be you don't read very well.

I get it that you're disappointed they didn't win 8 games in 2023, but that's water under the bridge.

I was interested in your expectations for number of wins and losses going forward, in the seasons to come. What do you see as realistic expectations for wins and losses for a football coach at Minnesota?
 

This season has not passed the eye test. I know shitty football when I see it and if anybody here says this year has been anything other than shitty then PJ could pretty much roll anything out and you would defend him.

It's your prerogative to vent and be angry. I certainly don't want to deny you that pleasure.

Do you have any objective expectations going forward, in terms of average number of wins and losses?
 

This season has not passed the eye test. I know shitty football when I see it and if anybody here says this year has been anything other than shitty then PJ could pretty much roll anything out and you would defend him.
I have yet to see anyone try and claim this hasn’t been a rough year.

Those defending Fleck are coming from the viewpoint that yes this has been a disappointing year but you give the guy a chance to do better and don’t blow it all up after one down season.
 

It's your prerogative to vent and be angry. I certainly don't want to deny you that pleasure.

Do you have any objective expectations going forward, in terms of average number of wins and losses?
Not venting or angry about anything. I worry about our the product on the field being unwatchable like it has been this year IMO. I don’t care about W and L as much as being prepared and then having a cogent plan on game day. I think our coach sucks at that. We have lost the close ones and not shown up three times— two against tough opponents and one in NC that isn’t as tough as we thought. That IMO was the worst game of the year. I guess my expectation is competent game plans and game day coaching. I don’t know how we don’t get an F this year.
 

I have yet to see anyone try and claim this hasn’t been a rough year.

Those defending Fleck are coming from the viewpoint that yes this has been a disappointing year but you give the guy a chance to do better and don’t blow it all up after one down season.

Exactly.

If we're in agreement that this season has been disappointing (and I think most of us are in agreement) it's worth pointing out that the team could quite possibly finish 7-6 with yet another winning record, yet another bowl win and victories over both Iowa and Wisconsin.

Since that's now seen as disappointing, our level of expectations has definitely been raised — which is good.
 


I have yet to see anyone try and claim this hasn’t been a rough year.

Those defending Fleck are coming from the viewpoint that yes this has been a disappointing year but you give the guy a chance to do better and don’t blow it all up after one down season.
I think in the past he’s been a poor game day coach too but has had superstars like 31, et al and 24 to bail him out. I don’t think this is a new issue it’s just more evident when your QB is bad and you lack star power.
 

Exactly.

If we're in agreement that this season has been disappointing (and I think most of us are in agreement) it's worth pointing out that the team could quite possibly finish 7-6 with yet another winning record, yet another bowl win and victories over both Iowa and Wisconsin.

Since that's now seen as disappointing, our level of expectations has definitely been raised — which is good.
Maybe relative to expectations, but if Purdue, Wisconsin and Iowa played the average incarnations of themselves during the majority of Mason’s stretch, and I’m not pining for Mason, the old time teams would beat the now teams by probably three TDs. PJ has an easier road it’s comparing apples and oranges.
 

Not venting or angry about anything. I worry about our the product on the field being unwatchable like it has been this year IMO. I don’t care about W and L as much as being prepared and then having a cogent plan on game day. I think our coach sucks at that. We have lost the close ones and not shown up three times— two against tough opponents and one in NC that isn’t as tough as we thought. That IMO was the worst game of the year. I guess my expectation is competent game plans and game day coaching. I don’t know how we don’t get an F this year.

I see where you're coming from.

I respectfully disagree with you on Fleck's preparation and planning. To my eye, Fleck absolutely has a cogent plan: run the ball, control the clock, limit your opponent's number of possessions, avoid turnovers and penalties, give your defense time to rest and adjust.

That's always been his plan, and he'll probably never change it.

Now, you may hate his plan or find it "unwatchable", but that isn't the same thing as him not having a plan.

And his plan has not always been executed well on the field, but it has been pretty successful over the course of seven seasons.
 

Maybe relative to expectations, but if Purdue, Wisconsin and Iowa played the average incarnations of themselves during the majority of Mason’s stretch, and I’m not pining for Mason, the old time teams would beat the now teams by probably three TDs. PJ has an easier road it’s comparing apples and oranges.

That's a lot of pretty wild extrapolation, in my opinion. No way to know if that's actually true.
 



A lot of people are also interested in whether you competed well with better talent, whether you actually beat someone with better talent, and whether you beat everyone you were better than.

If you only care about wins and losses check in at the end of the year

Often times blitzes give up bigger plays than non blitzes

The big plays against northwestern and Illinois were because of coaching errors in teaching M-F, not calls on Sat

When you play 2 high and your half field safety jumps a 10 yard under, that is an execution error not scheme error. Which is still on the coaches but in a totally different way


There are many calls that could work. There are few that work when not executing. Call a blitz and don’t execute and everyone asks why they blitzes. Illinois play they ran a twist and got a hit on the QB.
Do your odds for a successful blitz improve any if:

* They are 4th and 11 near their own goal line?

* If their quarterback just went down and a backup who has not played that day and not had a chance to toss a ball on the sidelines is rushed onto the field for the 4th and 11?
 

You're entitled to your feelings. I'm not going to argue with you about how you feel; that would be ridiculous.

If you're disappointed, angry, sad about the season you're certainly not alone.
Feelings? Anyway, you are not arguing with me. You are babbling from a set perspective that you seem to think is necessary to defend at all cost. Have at it.
 

I have yet to see anyone try and claim this hasn’t been a rough year.

Those defending Fleck are coming from the viewpoint that yes this has been a disappointing year but you give the guy a chance to do better and don’t blow it all up after one down season.
I certainly agree with that and wouldn't make a change after this year. Doesn't matter what we think on that anyway because Fleck's job is more than safe with Coyle.

What is worth discussing, and not disrespectful to Fleck's body of work here, is whether he personally is capable of recognizing any of his own shortcomings and actually considering some changes.

I have not seen any indication he is. Could well be wrong.
 

I certainly agree with that and wouldn't make a change after this year. Doesn't matter what we think on that anyway because Fleck's job is more than safe with Coyle.

What is worth discussing, and not disrespectful to Fleck's body of work here, is whether he personally is capable of recognizing any of his own shortcomings and actually considering some changes.

I have not seen any indication he is. Could well be wrong.

Fleck might not agree with you on what is and what is not a shortcoming on his part.
 



Feelings? Anyway, you are not arguing with me. You are babbling from a set perspective that you seem to think is necessary to defend at all cost. Have at it.

Are you yourself arguing "from a set perspective"? There's a chance you might be projecting a bit on that.
 

I certainly agree with that and wouldn't make a change after this year. Doesn't matter what we think on that anyway because Fleck's job is more than safe with Coyle.

What is worth discussing, and not disrespectful to Fleck's body of work here, is whether he personally is capable of recognizing any of his own shortcomings and actually considering some changes.

I have not seen any indication he is. Could well be wrong.
Adding to the above, one of Fleck's weaknesses has nothing to do with game planning, football philosophy, or game day coaching. It is his penchant for staying with a guy too long at times.

I think many fans are seeing that as a possibility with AK next year. It would be a grave mistake not to bring in some serious competition at QB for next Spring. I don't mean a true freshman and a redshirt freshman already on the roster.

I agree Minnesota is not going to attract a good quarterback with an actual record of accomplishment in the portal. But there are going to be some redshirt freshmen and sophomore QBs recruited to decent schools who find themselves behind someone who is going to be starting a couple more years.

Some of these will enter the portal simply looking to play earlier. They won't have college game film but if they were recruited to a good school they are worth looking at. We need one of those for QB competition.
 

Fleck might not agree with you on what is and what is not a shortcoming on his part.
And exactly why would I care about that and what would it have to do with a discussion on a message board?
 

And exactly why would I care about that and what would it have to do with a discussion on a message board?

You said you'd like to see Fleck work to change his 'shortcomings'.

In order for Fleck to work on what you perceive as his 'shortcomings', he'd first have to agree with you as to what his shortcomings actually are.

Comprende?
 

I think in the past he’s been a poor game day coach too but has had superstars like 31, et al and 24 to bail him out. I don’t think this is a new issue it’s just more evident when your QB is bad and you lack star power.
When your qb is bad and you lack star power your on field product is going to be exactly what we're looking at this year. See: the past 60 years of Gopher football and every other program this year who are 6-6 or worse. There's no magic formula here. We have the right coach and system, we need an offensive coordinator and players to execute it.
 

When your qb is bad and you lack star power your on field product is going to be exactly what we're looking at this year. See: the past 60 years of Gopher football and every other program this year who are 6-6 or worse. There's no magic formula here. We have the right coach and system, we need an offensive coordinator and players to execute it.
Question: Will an elite offensive coordinator entertain coming to Minnesota?
 

When your qb is bad and you lack star power your on field product is going to be exactly what we're looking at this year. See: the past 60 years of Gopher football and every other program this year who are 6-6 or worse. There's no magic formula here. We have the right coach and system, we need an offensive coordinator and players to execute it.

Yes.

Our QB just might grow and mature in his role. The running backs might stay healthy — or healthier. The offensive line might improve.

A win over Wisconsin and playing in a bowl game would really help, I believe.
 

Question: Will an elite offensive coordinator entertain coming to Minnesota?
I don't think we need an elite one, we need one with a pulse. I think the hard part is finding a competent one who is willing to work under the atypical culture Fleck has in the locker room. Obviously Ciarrocca could handle it and he was competent at worst. With a 60% qb and an oc with a plan you can have some success, we've been doing it here for years.
 

Question: Will an elite offensive coordinator entertain coming to Minnesota?

I don't know.

Do you think Fleck believes our current coordinator situation is lacking, and warrants a change?

We might think it does. But does Fleck think so?
 

The play at QB needs attention from the coaching staff. It should be Priority One this offseason, in my opinion.

The kid has talent, and he obviously needs coaching to help reach his potential. I'm not a coach, but the bounce passes and the sailed-way-over-the-head-of-the-receiver passes seem to indicate that Athan's footwork is off. That's certainly coachable.
 

Do your odds for a successful blitz improve any if:

* They are 4th and 11 near their own goal line?

* If their quarterback just went down and a backup who has not played that day and not had a chance to toss a ball on the sidelines is rushed onto the field for the 4th and 11?

I've seen successful blitzes in similar situations, yes. I've also seen success with a 3-man rush and eight back in coverage.

I love Tyler Nubin, but I have no idea what he was trying to do on that play.
 

Do your odds for a successful blitz improve any if:

* They are 4th and 11 near their own goal line?

* If their quarterback just went down and a backup who has not played that day and not had a chance to toss a ball on the sidelines is rushed onto the field for the 4th and 11?
Well what they did didnt work, so the odds that it worked is 0

So by definition, anything else other than what they did would be at worst equal odds
 

Yes.

Our QB just might grow and mature in his role. The running backs might stay healthy — or healthier. The offensive line might improve.

A win over Wisconsin and playing in a bowl game would really help, I believe.
Or, the antiquated O just doesn’t work anymore unless your talent overwhelms and has no chance of allowing you to come from behind or have a prayer against more talented teams and should be retired before the wheels really fall off. It’s not a winning formula — sorry to say 31 and 24 type superstars- NFL players just aren’t on the horizon. And I’ll keep saying it although folks tell me to just not tune in—the whole things sucks to watch.
 

You said you'd like to see Fleck work to change his 'shortcomings'.

In order for Fleck to work on what you perceive as his 'shortcomings', he'd first have to agree with you as to what his shortcomings actually are.

Comprende?
Me? Fleck’s weaknesses are quite generally known. His concept of offensive football is too limited, easy to defend, cautious and timid. Most fans with the exception of you see that.

If Fleck can’t recognize those criticisms as even remotely worth considering, it means he is too inflexible to grow and improve.
 

When your qb is bad and you lack star power your on field product is going to be exactly what we're looking at this year. See: the past 60 years of Gopher football and every other program this year who are 6-6 or worse. There's no magic formula here. We have the right coach and system, we need an offensive coordinator and players to execute it.
An offensive coordinator who has the experience and track record to make a real difference is not coming here to teach execution of the current offensive system. He will bring his own system or he won’t come at all.
 

The play at QB needs attention from the coaching staff. It should be Priority One this offseason, in my opinion.

The kid has talent, and he obviously needs coaching to help reach his potential. I'm not a coach, but the bounce passes and the sailed-way-over-the-head-of-the-receiver passes seem to indicate that Athan's footwork is off. That's certainly coachable.
Your post assumes nobody has worked with AK the past 11 months. Why would you believe that?
 

Well what they did didnt work, so the odds that it worked is 0

So by definition, anything else other than what they did would be at worst equal odds
Then you agree they should have brought big pressure and disrupted his timing and forced him to run, throw a quicker short pass, run it himself, or eat a sack.
 




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