Pharrel Payne's best game as a Gopher

Donate To GopherHole



EasyThere Pilgrim said:
Henley had only 2 points on 1-5 shooting. But he logged 32 or 33 minutes and had 5 assists. I like that. Ben is doing the right thing. Get these freshmen as much experience as possible.
Click to expand...
In your opinion, is there such a thing as bad experience or is all experience positive because it’s experience? Honest question
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
Henley had only 2 points on 1-5 shooting. But he logged 32 or 33 minutes and had 5 assists. I like that. Ben is doing the right thing. Get these freshmen as much experience as possible.
Click to expand...
Exactly and who gets those minutes instead of him and why?
 



Payne was a beast last night and he is just scratching the surface of the kind of player he can become. If he can bump the FT% up a little and develop a midrange shot of some kind it is possible he develops into a guy who averages around 15 points a game to go along with a solid rebounding total.

Going to take some time for him to fully get there but it is tough not to be excited about the potential of what he could become.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
In your opinion, is there such a thing as bad experience or is all experience positive because it’s experience? Honest question
Click to expand...
Bad experience = keep making the same mistakes over and over again with no coaching corrections and not learning from them.
Good experience = a. having success and having that success reinforced b. failing, not being afraid of failing and growing from that failure.
I love watching Henley. He does not appear afraid and it is going to be fun to watch him with his California buddy next year on the team too.
 

Atl Gopher said:
Bad experience = keep making the same mistakes over and over again with no coaching corrections and not learning from them.
Good experience = a. having success and having that success reinforced b. failing, not being afraid of failing and growing from that failure.
I love watching Henley. He does not appear afraid and it is going to be fun to watch him with his California buddy next year on the team too.
Click to expand...
But I want EasyTherePilgrim to understand the difference as he only cares that they “freshmen” get experience.
 



Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
In your opinion, is there such a thing as bad experience or is all experience positive because it’s experience? Honest question
Click to expand...
Bad experience would be to go all-in on trying to squeeze out an extra few wins now at the expense of developing a solid program from the bottom up.

Or trying to develop a freshman who simply doesn't have much potential. But I think all 4 of our freshmen have the possibility of being good Big Ten players by the time they're juniors.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
But I want EasyTherePilgrim to understand the difference as he only cares that they “freshmen” get experience.
Click to expand...
My goal is to put a complete team together at every position. And realistically, that could be the year-after-next. I don't want bring in senior transfers yet...not until we already have the base in place.
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
Bad experience would be to go all-in on trying to squeeze out an extra few wins now at the expense of developing a solid program from the bottom up.

Or trying to develop a freshman who simply doesn't have much potential. But I think all 4 of our freshmen have the possibility of being good Big Ten players by the time they're juniors.
Click to expand...
At some point- good experience requires some winning. We desperately need an on floor leader at guard to come in here and show these guys how to win.
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
Bad experience would be to go all-in on trying to squeeze out an extra few wins now at the expense of developing a solid program from the bottom up.

Or trying to develop a freshman who simply doesn't have much potential. But I think all 4 of our freshmen have the possibility of being good Big Ten players by the time they're juniors.
Click to expand...
But specifically for the freshmen. Just because they are playing…and Henley looked terrible last night…we can’t just say he got experience (which your argument seems to be any experience is good/ there is no such thing as negative experience).

At some point we could also say he is getting experience by sitting on the bench and learning what not to do in games. Learning that you have to earn playing time. Learning that countless freshmen mistakes, still at this point, won’t be tolerated. Sitting could provide that hard earned experience.
 



bga1 said:
At some point- good experience requires some winning. We desperately need an on floor leader at guard to come in here and show these guys how to win.
Click to expand...
No, we don't need a senior transfer to come in here...squeeze out a couple extra meaningless wins...and then leave and leave a hole to fill when it's time to have a good team.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
But specifically for the freshmen. Just because they are playing…and Henley looked terrible last night…we can’t just say he got experience (which your argument seems to be any experience is good/ there is no such thing as negative experience).

At some point we could also say he is getting experience by sitting on the bench and learning what not to do in games. Learning that you have to earn playing time. Learning that countless freshmen mistakes, still at this point, won’t be tolerated. Sitting could provide that hard earned experience.
Click to expand...
The game before...he had 10 points, 5 rebounds, and 3 assists.

If he never showed any ability, then I'd agree with you. But I think he has potential.
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
The game before...he had 10 points, 5 rebounds, and 3 assists.

If he never showed any ability, then I'd agree with you. But I think he has potential.
Click to expand...
Henley looked terrible the moment he stepped on the court last night. Maybe CBJ could’ve limited his minutes due to the poor play and had that be a learning experience.

Whether he has potential or not (and that’s debatable), you still have to coach the player.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
Henley looked terrible the moment he stepped on the court last night. Maybe CBJ could’ve limited his minutes due to the poor play and had that be a learning experience.

Whether he has potential or not (and that’s debatable), you still have to coach the player.
Click to expand...
I'll have the concerns you wrote (not 'your' concerns, as you're a St. Thomas fan) if he doesn't have any more good games this year. And if he isn't improved by the midway point of next year.

But for now, so far so good for our freshmen. I want them to be good as juniors. With the higher-rated Evans & Christie good as sophomores.
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
I'll have the concerns you wrote (not 'your' concerns, as you're a St. Thomas fan) if he doesn't have any more good games this year. And if he isn't improved by the midway point of next year.

But for now, so far so good for our freshmen. I want them to be good as juniors. With the higher-rated Evans & Christie good as sophomores.
Click to expand...
So there is never a reason to sit a player (who is young) for poor play in your coaching book?
 

cjbfbp said:
Delving into the metaphysical. I'm impressed.
Click to expand...
He has no idea what he is delving into but the truth is any and all playing time in a Big Ten game is valuable experience.

Henley took five shots in 33 minutes. He only made one but it was after an offensive rebound. Good. But he is obviously responding to coaching by moving the ball, getting assists, and playing some decent defense.

He is improving.
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
My goal is to put a complete team together at every position. And realistically, that could be the year-after-next. I don't want bring in senior transfers yet...not until we already have the base in place.
Click to expand...
Sorry, but a good PG would be a great addition for one or two years, either one.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
But specifically for the freshmen. Just because they are playing…and Henley looked terrible last night…we can’t just say he got experience (which your argument seems to be any experience is good/ there is no such thing as negative experience).

At some point we could also say he is getting experience by sitting on the bench and learning what not to do in games. Learning that you have to earn playing time. Learning that countless freshmen mistakes, still at this point, won’t be tolerated. Sitting could provide that hard earned experience.
Click to expand...
The alternative is to play Samuels over Henley or over either Henley or Carrington when he is ready for extended time. No upside to that.
 

Dakota2 said:
The alternative is to play Samuels over Henley or over either Henley or Carrington when he is ready for extended time. No upside to that.
Click to expand...
No upside to Henley getting away with garbage play at times either. We all know we are not winning this year, it’s a lost year. But, you can still use the remaining games to teach Henley the right way to play. And that may involve Samuels playing some (and I don’t want him to play at all…his a MIAC level player).
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
Henley looked terrible the moment he stepped on the court last night. Maybe CBJ could’ve limited his minutes due to the poor play and had that be a learning experience.

Whether he has potential or not (and that’s debatable), you still have to coach the player.
Click to expand...
Henley is showing obvious signs of coaching. He is limiting his shots (took five in 33 minutes), he is playing defense, and he is looking for shots for his teammates.

He also had only two turnovers in 33 minutes. Again good.

That's a lot of improvement, making it valuable experience.
 


EasyThere Pilgrim said:
I'll have the concerns you wrote (not 'your' concerns, as you're a St. Thomas fan) if he doesn't have any more good games this year. And if he isn't improved by the midway point of next year.

But for now, so far so good for our freshmen. I want them to be good as juniors. With the higher-rated Evans & Christie good as sophomores.
Click to expand...
You are going to be surprised that the four freshmen will be pretty good before their junior seasons.

Clem always said it takes a young guy 40 games to be a good player, meaning the middle of their sophomore years.

Payne is well ahead of that schedule.
 

Dakota2 said:
Henley is showing obvious signs of coaching. He is limiting his shots (took five in 33 minutes), he is playing defense, and he is looking for shots for his teammates.

He also had only two turnovers in 33 minutes. Again good.

That's a lot of improvement, making it valuable experience.
Click to expand...
Maybe we watched a different Henley. I do not think he looked great. I don’t think it’s a great claim to say he finally had a governor on his shot limit. He still took some bad ones (even though he only took 5). His stat line, outside of assists, is pretty putrid for playing 33 minutes. Plus these stats don’t show the defense, he lost his man multiple times on screens.
 

Dakota2 said:
Sorry, but a good PG would be a great addition for one or two years, either one.
Click to expand...
Maybe a very good PG. But that's it. And I wouldn't want to give him all the playing-time unless we were ready to make an NCAA run. I want to develop a good complete team in 2 years.
 


EasyThere Pilgrim said:
Maybe a very good PG. But that's it. And I wouldn't want to give him all the playing-time unless we were ready to make an NCAA run. I want to develop a good complete team in 2 years.
Click to expand...
How can you develop a great team when we have no PGs on the roster? Who are you developing if we don’t get a portal PG? It’s not cooper as he’ll be a SR.
 

Dakota2 said:
You are going to be surprised that the four freshmen will be pretty good before their junior seasons.

Clem always said it takes a young guy 40 games to be a good player, meaning the middle of their sophomore years.

Payne is well ahead of that schedule.
Click to expand...
I'm DEFINITELY going by the Clem model. Hoping for an NCAA run when our freshmen core are juniors.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom