Pat Chambers

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bga1

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Penn State looking real good this year, just beat Iowa. It is Pat Chambers 9th year at Penn State. He has never taken them to the NCAAs has a .311 winning percentage in Big Ten play and has only one finish above 10th in his previous 8 years. Yet they stuck with him and he now has some momentum going at PSU. I am not saying that this is a perfect analogy to Pitino but this is a case where the AD decided that the existing coach was his best bet despite the lousy record. In this case, it may well be that the AD was right.
 

Lets say he finishes 3rd, wins a game in the tourney. Good year. But in 9 years that body of work is good enough ? What if the next 3 years is below .500 ? I am not saying it is a easy situation but that is a huge sample size that he is not that special guy you need. FYI, really like the guy and it is a even tougher than here, they have had even less success than we have.
 

builtbadgers said:
Lets say he finishes 3rd, wins a game in the tourney. Good year. But in 9 years that body of work is good enough ? What if the next 3 years is below .500 ? I am not saying it is a easy situation but that is a huge sample size that he is not that special guy you need. FYI, really like the guy and it is a even tougher than here, they have had even less success than we have.
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In 9 years that body of work is definitely not good enough. You cannot do anything about the previous 8. The AD looked at what was ahead and what he could replace Chambers with and chose to stay with Chambers. Looks good right now. Replacement is not always a panacea, nor is it predictable. Sometimes you do have to replace. We'll see what happens there and here. But here- I like the direction Pitino is heading- despite a 6 year record that has not been good enough. We'll see how the year goes. If it goes well- I am for him continuing. If not, it may be time. Right now, I am all in with this team and with this coach.
 


bga1 said:
In 9 years that body of work is definitely not good enough. You cannot do anything about the previous 8. The AD looked at what was ahead and what he could replace Chambers with and chose to stay with Chambers. Looks good right now. Replacement is not always a panacea, nor is it predictable. Sometimes you do have to replace. We'll see what happens there and here. But here- I like the direction Pitino is heading- despite a 6 year record that has not been good enough. We'll see how the year goes. If it goes well- I am for him continuing. If not, it may be time. Right now, I am all in with this team and with this coach.
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Preach it!
 




bga1 said:
Right now, I am all in with this team and with this coach.
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I want nothing but success for the basketball team and Pitino. But I’ve seen enough of a body of work after (what will be) 7 years that for the most part, one season’s results (good or bad) won’t alter my opinion.

With Chambers, obviously it is currently proving to be advantageous that he stuck around. The likelihood of somebody succeeding after that many years of futility is extremely low. Is it possible? For sure. But, the chances have to be low.
 

builtbadgers said:
To be clear, it is ok for fans to have their own standard for what they think is good enough.
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I think it might be less about what each of us thinks is “good enough” and more about each of our tolerances to risk. Poorly timed firing can dismantle a roster and leave a class or two empty regardless of the coaching hire. A subsequent poor hire can set a non-blue blood back a few more years.

In the case of the gophers, do you throw away 2 years of an upperclassmen core made of Carr, Gabe, Oturu, Omersa, Willis/Williams if this season is subpar? With a coaching change, Oturu could simply go pro and Carr could grad transfer out.

Sorry I know this was about chambers... I guess the analog would depend on how senior heavy they are.
 



Knowing your roots with UW and UVA, I can also understand that you may have a higher tolerance to risk for your other teams (e.g. gophers). A failed hire for one team wouldn’t ruin your only opportunity to relish in the success of the others.

For many others, a bad hire means 5+ years without hope.
 

bga1 said:
Penn State looking real good this year, just beat Iowa. It is Pat Chambers 9th year at Penn State. He has never taken them to the NCAAs has a .311 winning percentage in Big Ten play and has only one finish above 10th in his previous 8 years. Yet they stuck with him and he now has some momentum going at PSU. I am not saying that this is a perfect analogy to Pitino but this is a case where the AD decided that the existing coach was his best bet despite the lousy record. In this case, it may well be that the AD was right.
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Might also have to do with filling a 100k seat football stadium 7-8 times per year and not having to worry about basketball generating much revenue. It’s a tough place to get to for fans to expect a big crowd each basketball game. Not saying they don’t want win but their priorities might be different and not too stressed about winning. Seems like he’s run a clean program(haven’t bothered to check) and they know it’s tough sledding in B1G basketball. He’s seems to have a good pipeline to Philly now, we’ll see if it finally pays off.
 

bc2211 said:
Knowing your roots with UW and UVA, I can also understand that you may have a higher tolerance to risk for your other teams (e.g. gophers). A failed hire for one team wouldn’t ruin your only opportunity to relish in the success of the others.

For many others, a bad hire means 5+ years without hope.
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A new hire comes with risk but it is minimized when you have someone great at hiring. To be clear, i am 100 % behind this team and this coach this year. The age of the returning players factors in as well and i am anticipating this team to be successful.
 

bga1 said:
Penn State looking real good this year, just beat Iowa. It is Pat Chambers 9th year at Penn State. He has never taken them to the NCAAs has a .311 winning percentage in Big Ten play and has only one finish above 10th in his previous 8 years. Yet they stuck with him and he now has some momentum going at PSU. I am not saying that this is a perfect analogy to Pitino but this is a case where the AD decided that the existing coach was his best bet despite the lousy record. In this case, it may well be that the AD was right.
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What about the 8 seasons that were terrible?
 




builtbadgers said:
A new hire comes with risk but it is minimized when you have someone great at hiring. To be clear, i am 100 % behind this team and this coach this year. The age of the returning players factors in as well and i am anticipating this team to be successful.
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I think we are on the same page. Coyle has seemingly done a good job this far - but I don’t pay too close of attention at that level.
 

It's his 9th year so he should be undefeated according to most on here.
 


bga1 said:
They were terrible. What is your point?
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Just that your point has weird logic. They were terrible for 8 years and finally got good. How is that worth it? Sounds like a lot of patience to wait for anything positive to happen. I get that Penn State is a different animal, but that still is a lot of lean years to spin it a positive.
 

tikited said:
Just that your point has weird logic. They were terrible for 8 years and finally got good. How is that worth it? Sounds like a lot of patience to wait for anything positive to happen. I get that Penn State is a different animal, but that still is a lot of lean years to spin it a positive.
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My point is that we fans look at it and say- well that's easy 6,7,8 years that are not what we want and we say- fire him. For the AD, they are going to look at it a little differently. What are the circumstances, what are the future prospects, what is the direction of the program and what are the alternatives? The AD at PSU decided that Chambers was still the best man at the time and it makes the rest irrelevant. Now he has a good team and is winning. It looks like a good call by the AD. It's not always going to work way and in fact it usually won't. But the AD usually understands the overall condition of the program better than we do and what his options are.
 

bga1 said:
My point is that we fans look at it and say- well that's easy 6,7,8 years that are not what we want and we say- fire him. For the AD, they are going to look at it a little differently. What are the circumstances, what are the future prospects, what is the direction of the program and what are the alternatives? The AD at PSU decided that Chambers was still the best man at the time and it makes the rest irrelevant. Now he has a good team and is winning. It looks like a good call by the AD. It's not always going to work way and in fact it usually won't. But the AD usually understands the overall condition of the program better than we do and what his options are.
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Agree. The key part is the AD and his ability to hire a upgrade. Most AD's, if you told them that someone was going to have the job for 7-8 years without ever coming close to winning the conference,without a deep tourney run and a poor winning %, way under .400 they would not hire the guy . They know it is really hard to find the next Beard or Bennett. When you do, you know it right away.
 

The PSU AD doesn't get an award for wisdom and patience because the difference between Happy Valley and the Twin Cities is just that. By year five if the AD thought he could recruit a better basketball coach to come to a football school located in a place that you can't get to, and who would stick around if he had success, he would have made the move. Coyle is operating in a completely different environment and will have multiple good options if he decides to fire Pitino.

I hope that Pitino has a good year and earns more time because he is refreshingly candid and open for a college coach. However, seven years is more than enough time to establish traction on the court and in recruiting. In terms of Chambers, he made it to year nine because there wasn't anybody else.
 

Penn State is doing it with a very veteran lineup. Every B1G team should have an up year every once and awhile. Let’s see how the season plays out.
 

forever a gopher said:
I want nothing but success for the basketball team and Pitino. But I’ve seen enough of a body of work after (what will be) 7 years that for the most part, one season’s results (good or bad) won’t alter my opinion.

With Chambers, obviously it is currently proving to be advantageous that he stuck around. The likelihood of somebody succeeding after that many years of futility is extremely low. Is it possible? For sure. But, the chances have to be low.
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Agreed. Odds are that Chambers won't be able to sustain this level of success. In 2-3 years we'll likely be talking about his job being in jeopardy again. Was saved by Stevens not turning pro.
 

bga1 said:
My point is that we fans look at it and say- well that's easy 6,7,8 years that are not what we want and we say- fire him. For the AD, they are going to look at it a little differently.
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Regarding the truth of your last statement, well, we'll see. If the team has a dismal overall finish, the views of the AD and some of us fans may coincide.

As far as Pat Chambers, I suspect a big factor that is keeping him there is that he finally made Penn State relevant to Philadelphia area recruits. As a born-and-bred Pennsylvanian, I can tell you that Penn State was never much of a destination for top Philly area basketball players in decades past. I also agree with a poster above that, outside of the Philly metro area, PA is a football obsessed state, PSU is the creme de la creme of eastern collegiate football, and as long as that continues the fans may be a little more tolerant of underachieving basketball teams.
 

With Penn State having an uptick year and a lock for the NCAAs it is kind of fun to look at what their fans were saying. This thread was a beauty and you can even find that they have their own Builtbadger on board...
247sports.com

Official Fire Pat Chambers Thread - 2018/2019 Version

Official Fire Pat Chambers Thread - 2018/2019 Version
247sports.com 247sports.com
 

bga1 said:
With Penn State having an uptick year and a lock for the NCAAs it is kind of fun to look at what their fans were saying. This thread was a beauty and you can even find that they have their own Builtbadger on board...
247sports.com

Official Fire Pat Chambers Thread - 2018/2019 Version

Official Fire Pat Chambers Thread - 2018/2019 Version
247sports.com 247sports.com
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Interesting read. Sounded just like some of the threads on the GH. I did not recognize Built yet but I see some other similarities, the names of which I will not mention. One thing for sure quite a few were suffering from CDS.
 
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BB at PSU is just a passing interest. Their donors really care about the FB team.
At MN the final four ,thus really only on the national stage in modern times, was BB, the hockey team had their moments but the FB team has not been to the Rose Bowl since the last ice age.
So the success of the BB team is more important in MN than at PSU.
Oturo is not staying unless the NBA draft people give him a low mark.
 

bga1 said:
Penn State looking real good this year, just beat Iowa. It is Pat Chambers 9th year at Penn State. He has never taken them to the NCAAs has a .311 winning percentage in Big Ten play and has only one finish above 10th in his previous 8 years. Yet they stuck with him and he now has some momentum going at PSU. I am not saying that this is a perfect analogy to Pitino but this is a case where the AD decided that the existing coach was his best bet despite the lousy record. In this case, it may well be that the AD was right.
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Good grief.
 

Plato said:
BB at PSU is just a passing interest. Their donors really care about the FB team.
At MN the final four ,thus really only on the national stage in modern times, was BB, the hockey team had their moments but the FB team has not been to the Rose Bowl since the last ice age.
So the success of the BB team is more important in MN than at PSU.
Oturo is not staying unless the NBA draft people give him a low mark.
Click to expand...
This and because of that you can afford to give a less than successful coach some leeway.
 


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