On the positive side with Christie

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MUgopher32 said:
No ha I'm saying that just because the ball "almost went in" or "could have went in" doesnt mean it was a good shot, just like the occaisional half court that rims out.

I made it clear that the shot was a long two not half court. But that is a terribly low percentage shot that top offenses completely exponge from their play book. Early suprise michigan in losing Dickinson and Jett Howard has seen their offense explode by going to a strictly 3 and lay up type offense no settling/hero ball.

With 9.9 seconds theres so much time to drive into the paint get to to the rim, draw contact in the double bonus, get a put back or kcik it out for a wide open game winning 3 if the D collapses on the drive.

Mizzou and every defense will live with that Christie shot all day.. Its low percentage and worst case its OT.
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So we should have just waited for the 4 footer that was coming? You literally think we were just gonna drive to the rim. I'm trying not to laugh, but the only guy who would even have a chance to drive to the rim was sitting on the bench.

Who was going to drive to the rim? Give me a name.
 


1. Ben borrowing "play not to lose strategy" from Fleck. Basketball's version of a prevent defense.

2. Hawkins is your quickest and best bet to have the ball at the end of the game currently to make a play for others, stop and pop, or get to the rim. Yes he needs to know not to over-penetrate, but better to make mistakes early.
If it's a defensive size decision, he had 5 rebounds, by just being quicker to the ball.

Of the 4 guards he is the only one with more assists than turnovers this game: 6-4, Carrington 2-3, Mitchell 1-2, Christie 2-2.

3. I was wondering who could take the ball at the end of game, coming into this one?
Next year with some added upper body strength, that could be Christie. He had a bad game and was not hot to rely on him to shoot step back 3's. The play in both on both possessions is to drive the ball to put pressure on the defense. Now if Christie was hot as hell from 3's then it wasn't a bad strategy. He was ice cold.

Currently it has to be Hawkins, and if you want Garcia to get the ball he would have to be the player picking for Hawkins, as Missouri was overplaying everything to get it to him down low. Garcia is a good ball handler, but I think they would have doubled him and tried for the steal, had he brought it up.

This is why guards are so important in basketball, a big who isnt a superb ball handler depends on a guard to get him the ball at the end of games, and other teams will do their best not to let that happen.
 


kg21 said:
So we should have just waited for the 4 footer that was coming? You literally think we were just gonna drive to the rim. I'm trying not to laugh, but the only guy who would even have a chance to drive to the rim was sitting on the bench.

Who was going to drive to the rim? Give me a name.
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You have 9.9 seconds. I know gopher basketball has been shaky the last couple years but even so just watch other college basketball games thats an eon of time to get anything going towards the rim.

Get it across half court and feed it in to Dawson. Let Mitchell drive. Kick it out to Carrington even if he cant shoot

This is not a matter of opinion. The long 2 is statistically the worst shot in basketball and again there is a reason why all the good offenses in college basketball literally do not take those shots under any circumstance.

It was a god awful shot for the final possession. This is not a debate and there is not one basketball mind or hell even person on this board that agrees with you.
 

MUgopher32 said:
You have 9.9 seconds. I know gopher basketball has been shaky the last couple years but even so just watch other college basketball games thats an eon of time to get anything going towards the rim.

Get it across half court and feed it in to Dawson. Let Mitchell drive. Kick it out to Carrington even if he cant shoot

This is not a matter of opinion. The long 2 is statistically the worst shot in basketball and again there is a reason why all the good offenses in college basketball literally do not take those shots under any circumstance.

It was a god awful shot for the final possession. This is not a debate and there is not one basketball mind or hell even person on this board that agrees with you.
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With 9.9 seconds left, you are saying a long 2 is statistically bad?

Not with 9.9 seconds left?

Yes, drive it, kick it, etc. We hadn't done that in 8 minutes, though. It appeared to me that we literally couldn't do that.

We were locked down.
 





GopherWeatherGuy said:
Lol you can't be serious with this. He was 0-4 with 2 points last night in 18 min and had no business taking the final shots.

Missouri will also be a bottom tier SEC team this season.
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I think you're probably right about this but Gates is a good coach. I think like last night, they might beat a few more talented teams.
 

Holy Man said:
He’s a good player. He should not have been put into that spot in his second game.
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He was put in that spot because he was the best option. He is the only guy we have who can bring the ball up the court without a turnover and get his own shot, all in nine seconds.

He did it, worked his way open, squared up and released a pretty shot. It didn’t quite go down but it was our best option.

The odds of having multiple guys making passes to find a shot without a turnover or running out of time were about 25%. The odds of Christie getting a good look on his own are better than 80%.
 

Dakota2 said:
He was put in that spot because he was the best option. He is the only guy we have who can bring the ball up the court without a turnover and get his own shot, all in nine seconds.

He did it, worked his way open, squared up and released a pretty shot. It didn’t quite go down but it was our best option.

The odds of having multiple guys making passes to find a shot without a turnover or running out of time were about 25%. The odds of Christie getting a good look on his own are better than 80%.
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Yahtzee
 

Dakota2 said:
He was put in that spot because he was the best option. He is the only guy we have who can bring the ball up the court without a turnover and get his own shot, all in nine seconds.

He did it, worked his way open, squared up and released a pretty shot. It didn’t quite go down but it was our best option.

The odds of having multiple guys making passes to find a shot without a turnover or running out of time were about 25%. The odds of Christie getting a good look on his own are better than 80%.
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I agree with Holy Man: "He’s a good player. He should not have been put into that spot in his second game."
1. We are not a Class A high school JV team...we can make multiple successful passes if need be.
2. You don't put a freshman in that situation in game two on a night when he has already struggled.
3. Let somebody who can shot free throws attack the basket. You should have figured out what Garcia's best move is after two years...let him attack and go AND 1.
4. These guys have had more practice time before game one than a high school team gets in 18 weeks. You should have some can't fail, money sets for these situations you have practiced very frequently by now.
 



MUgopher32 said:
You have 9.9 seconds. I know gopher basketball has been shaky the last couple years but even so just watch other college basketball games thats an eon of time to get anything going towards the rim.

Get it across half court and feed it in to Dawson. Let Mitchell drive. Kick it out to Carrington even if he cant shoot

This is not a matter of opinion. The long 2 is statistically the worst shot in basketball and again there is a reason why all the good offenses in college basketball literally do not take those shots under any circumstance.

It was a god awful shot for the final possession. This is not a debate and there is not one basketball mind or hell even person on this board that agrees with you.
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It was a good shot by the one guy who can get his own good shot in under 10 seconds. Christie is also our best shooter despite being cold last night.

The Duke, Kansas ending where three or four players touch the ball and it ends up inside for a dunk with a second left is not realistic right now. Had we tried that anything like that at this stage it’s a turnover and no shot taken.

Christie brought it up and got a good shot.
 

60's Guy said:
I agree with Holy Man: "He’s a good player. He should not have been put into that spot in his second game."
1. We are not a Class A high school JV team...we can make multiple successful passes if need be.
2. You don't put a freshman in that situation in game two on a night when he has already struggled.
3. Let somebody who can shot free throws attack the basket. You should have figured out what Garcia's best move is after two years...let him attack and go AND 1.
4. These guys have had more practice time before game one than a high school team gets in 18 weeks. You should have some can't fail, money sets for these situations you have practiced very frequently by now.
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If we could make multiple successful passes under pressure we would not have had a ton of turnovers down the stretch leading to an uninterrupted string of scores by Missouri. If we could have done that we win handily without worrying about a last shot.

There is no one in a Gopher uniform or coaching who understands yet how to win when leading and under intense pressure. We have talented guys but they need to learn to win those games. It will come.
 

Does CBJ hate PGs or something? They’ve had exactly one legitimate PG each year of his tenure. If you want to construct your roster with about 10 PFs and one PG, you have painted yourself into a corner and no longer have the “luxury” of benching your only PG to prove a point.
 

Dakota2 said:
The odds of having multiple guys making passes to find a shot without a turnover or running out of time were about 25%. The odds of Christie getting a good look on his own are better than 80%.
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And 78% of percentages you read on the internet are pulled from thin air.
 


Jaden Henley got into the game after a couple minutes and immediately turned the ball over. DePaul is pretty bad looking this year.....not that they've looked good the past few years (except for when they played the Gophers).

Oh damn....and Ta'lon Cooper is playing for South Carolina. Neat.


I'd rather have Christie than either of these guys.
 
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stocker08 said:
Jaden Henley got into the game after a couple minutes and immediately turned the ball over. DePaul is pretty bad looking this year.....not that they've looked good the past few years (except for when they played the Gophers).

Oh damn....and Ta'lon Cooper is playing for South Carolina. Neat.


I'd rather have Christie than either of these guys.
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True but I’m not sure it’s an either/or situation. Either one would help right now.
 

Dakota2 said:
If we could make multiple successful passes under pressure we would not have had a ton of turnovers down the stretch leading to an uninterrupted string of scores by Missouri. If we could have done that we win handily without worrying about a last shot.

There is no one in a Gopher uniform or coaching who understands yet how to win when leading and under intense pressure. We have talented guys but they need to learn to win those games. It will come.
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Agreed.

Also, I feel like that the book is out on us. Go all 89’ Detroit Pistons on the Gophers when they get a lead.

Seems like that’s how both Missouri and UTSA made comebacks. Don’t worry about fouls and bring in guys just to hit us in the mouth. We responded both times by playing “their” game instead of ours.

Against both I think we were in the double bonus by 9/10 mins left. Then couldn’t runs sets well. Tons of unforced errors and trying to do too much.
 

atsgopher said:
Agreed.

Also, I feel like that the book is out on us. Go all 89’ Detroit Pistons on the Gophers when they get a lead.

Seems like that’s how both Missouri and UTSA made comebacks. Don’t worry about fouls and bring in guys just to hit us in the mouth. We responded both times by playing “their” game instead of ours.

Against both I think we were in the double bonus by 9/10 mins left. Then couldn’t runs sets well. Tons of unforced errors and trying to do too much.
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That’s a valid point.
 

Dakota2 said:
It was a good shot by the one guy who can get his own good shot in under 10 seconds. Christie is also our best shooter despite being cold last night.

The Duke, Kansas ending where three or four players touch the ball and it ends up inside for a dunk with a second left is not realistic right now. Had we tried that anything like that at this stage it’s a turnover and no shot taken.

Christie brought it up and got a good shot.
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But statistically that is not a good shot.

It doesnt matter who is taking that shot. It could be Christie, it could Kyle Filipkowski, it could be Max abmas or Trey Alexander

A long two is factually the worst shot in basketball. Every single coach and metric will say the same thing. Its a bad low percentage shot for every single player and its a uncessary shot with 9.9 seconds left which is an eternity.

We could have run anything. But we chose to let a ice cold guy take the longest possible shot that at best could only tie the game.

Again, there is a specific reason why every good offense in college basketball refuses to take those shots.
 

MUgopher32 said:
But statistically that is not a good shot.

It doesnt matter who is taking that shot. It could be Christie, it could Kyle Filipkowski, it could be Max abmas or Trey Alexander

A long two is factually the worst shot in basketball. Every single coach and metric will say the same thing. Its a bad low percentage shot for every single player and its a uncessary shot with 9.9 seconds left which is an eternity.

We could have run anything. But we chose to let a ice cold guy take the longest possible shot that at best could only tie the game.

Again, there is a specific reason why every good offense in college basketball refuses to take those shots.
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We actually could not have run "anything" on a ten minute streak of bad passes and turnovers. The ideal last shot was Garcia but the odds of getting the ball down the court and finding a good entry pass were low.
 

Dakota2 said:
We actually could not have run "anything" on a ten minute streak of bad passes and turnovers. The ideal last shot was Garcia but the odds of getting the ball down the court and finding a good entry pass were low.
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Thats because they didnt try.

Just like on the last play they took the worst shot in the sport with a freshman.

Maybe if its Tyson Walker you live with it.
 

Dakota2 said:
We actually could not have run "anything" on a ten minute streak of bad passes and turnovers. The ideal last shot was Garcia but the odds of getting the ball down the court and finding a good entry pass were low.
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You can run a pick and roll in 10 seconds. I know in your hypothetical that would be a turnover but there is time.

I have less issue with the last play than I do the other 9 minutes and 50 seconds.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
You can run a pick and roll in 10 seconds. I know in your hypothetical that would be a turnover but there is time.

I have less issue with the last play than I do the other 9 minutes and 50 seconds.
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I do too. Nothing to argue about.
 

Dakota2 said:
We actually could not have run "anything" on a ten minute streak of bad passes and turnovers. The ideal last shot was Garcia but the odds of getting the ball down the court and finding a good entry pass were low.
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From the point we were up 20 points, we ended up getting 20 more possessions.
-6 ended in turnovers and there were 6 different players involved in those turnovers
-3 ended in actual 2 point baskets (yeah!)
-We made 3 free throws (using up 2 of the possessions)
-We had 9 missed shots.
It just boils down to losing our poise and running bad offense. It was a team effort, the first turnover was actually by Cam Christie.
The fact that it occurred over the course of 11 minutes of playing time and encompassed a 31-9 run by Missouri is something that I think a coach should have been able to stop from happening with good direction. The problem isn't the last two shots - its the whole thing although giving both of the last two shots to a freshman who hasn't scored a bucket in the game seems crazy to me.

Christie is going to be a great player for us. I hope that what happened doesn't damage his confidence. He looked a little shaky today out there.
 

bga1 said:
From the point we were up 20 points, we ended up getting 20 more possessions.
-6 ended in turnovers and there were 6 different players involved in those turnovers
-3 ended in actual 2 point baskets (yeah!)
-We made 3 free throws (using up 2 of the possessions)
-We had 9 missed shots.
It just boils down to losing our poise and running bad offense. It was a team effort, the first turnover was actually by Cam Christie.
The fact that it occurred over the course of 11 minutes of playing time and encompassed a 31-9 run by Missouri is something that I think a coach should have been able to stop from happening with good direction. The problem isn't the last two shots - its the whole thing although giving both of the last two shots to a freshman who hasn't scored a bucket in the game seems crazy to me.

Christie is going to be a great player for us. I hope that what happened doesn't damage his confidence. He looked a little shaky today out there.
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Only six turnovers in nine minutes and you would keep doing the same thing?
 

Dakota2 said:
Only six turnovers in nine minutes and you would keep doing the same thing?
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No. I think that's terrible basketball. 6 turnovers and it started with guys playing one on one and the coach signaling for isolation plays. And that's how the last two plays that he called ended it.
 

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