***OFFICIAL ST. LOUIS AT MINNESOTA IN-GAME THREAD!!!***

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gopheraschells said:
We are only 7 games in. I don't remember there being an issue with him feeding Oturu last year so I am just going to attribute it to unfamiliarity.
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It would also be unacceptable to not feed Oturu. Liam has shown some skills, but can also struggle receiving a past in the post. For whatever reason, Carr seems shy passing into the post when bigs roll to the basket and when they work for good position. Those passes to Curry for easy baskets in this last game were a pleasant surprise and we don't see enough of that. This even happened last year with Oturu, but Dan was too good to be ignored and the ball had to be forced to him. It appears Carr either doesn't trust himself enough to make that pass consistently, or just doesn't trust Robbins enough to receive the pass without turning the ball over. There is no way he doesn't know that option is there since I assume they watch a ton of film. I suppose familiarity can strengthen trust, but it can weaken it as well. Hopefully Liam will continue to earn that trust by his play and their connection will improve.
 

GopherBlood666 said:
It would also be unacceptable to not feed Oturu. Liam has shown some skills, but can also struggle receiving a past in the post. For whatever reason, Carr seems shy passing into the post when bigs roll to the basket and when they work for good position. Those passes to Curry for easy baskets in this last game were a pleasant surprise and we don't see enough of that. This even happened last year with Oturu, but Dan was too good to be ignored and the ball had to be forced to him. It appears Carr either doesn't trust himself enough to make that pass consistently, or just doesn't trust Robbins enough to receive the pass without turning the ball over. There is no way he doesn't know that option is there since I assume they watch a ton of film. I suppose familiarity can strengthen trust, but it can weaken it as well. Hopefully Liam will continue to earn that trust by his play and their connection will improve.
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Dan was easier to feed because he had such great hands and also could very effectively get the ball in either the high or low post and score from either place off the dribble or jumper. Liam needs to get the ball down low to score, he is not going to dribble drive like Oturu.
 

If any player on the court has found or created the space to “be open”, you need to get them the ball. If the PG is passing based on other reasons (I.e. I don’t trust they’ll score), your team will slowly (and some cases quickly) fall into a mess. Everyone on this or any team, wants to score or believe they can make the next pass so someone else who will score.
 

Let's remember - Robbins is coming from Drake.

He has never faced other big men like he will face in the B1G. Guys who are really big and strong, or mobile with a variety of moves.

it's understandable to have a period of adjustment. the question will be - how is he playing by - let's say - halfway through the B1G schedule compared to the start of the season.

if he's showing improvement, great. if he's not showing improvement, that is a concern.
 

golf said:
Yes. My pet peeve is most of the game is enjoyable watching players' skill and athleticism as they compete. and then, the last few minutes, the coaches take over the game with a parade of timeouts.

No timeouts allowed the last 3 minutes would be much more enjoyable from a viewer's perspective. The last 3 minutes should be played with a similar flow to the first 37 minutes and that certainly isnt happening now.
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I suppose the coaches and players would say that they don't care how they look at the end of the game. Its not about our enjoyment, it's about the win. If the change in tactics leads to an increase in their chances of winning, they will do it.

I would be interested to see an analysis of whether the intentional fouling at the end of the game provides any benefit. If you are down 10 with a minute to go, do you have even a chance to win with this technique?

My guess is that games where one team has a 5-8 point lead are going to be the ones that devolve into a parade of free throws and drain the clock offense. One possession games or blowout games will tend to exhibit better basketball from a purely entertainment standpoint.

From a fan perspective, is it better to win ugly or lose looking skillful and athletic for 40 minutes? I think that most would argue that the win is most important.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
Let's remember - Robbins is coming from Drake.

He has never faced other big men like he will face in the B1G. Guys who are really big and strong, or mobile with a variety of moves.

it's understandable to have a period of adjustment. the question will be - how is he playing by - let's say - halfway through the B1G schedule compared to the start of the season.

if he's showing improvement, great. if he's not showing improvement, that is a concern.
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Great points. Also keep in mind Robbins is a late bloomer, who should continue to get better. He didn't even start till he was a Sr in high school, and then averaged only 9ppg, with no D1 offers. He went to prep school, dropped 65lbs of baby fat, then went to Drake where he wasn't a starter his Freshman year. It was really only last year that he started to develop into the kind of player a B1G team would want & as you point out, that was against lower competition. I expect he'll get better as the year goes on, and next season will be better yet.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but Gach is this team's bellwether. How he goes, the team goes, it seems. Last night he did it in all phases, including poised balllhandling when called upon. This guy is a difference maker.
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To your point, Gach looked totally outclassed against Illinois & we saw the final score that night. Here's hoping he shows up against Iowa.
 

Holy Man said:
Also had five turnovers, including a horrific one on a one hand pass breaking the press late. Needs to clean that up. For a guy known as a gunner, he has appeared pretty disciplined in his shot selection, though. I want him on the line in the clutch, too.
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Your point's valid, but to be fair their press was brutal & it caused a lot of turnovers. Gabe had 4, Ihnen & Curry 3 each.
 

ecoperson said:
I suppose the coaches and players would say that they don't care how they look at the end of the game. Its not about our enjoyment, it's about the win. If the change in tactics leads to an increase in their chances of winning, they will do it.

I would be interested to see an analysis of whether the intentional fouling at the end of the game provides any benefit. If you are down 10 with a minute to go, do you have even a chance to win with this technique?

My guess is that games where one team has a 5-8 point lead are going to be the ones that devolve into a parade of free throws and drain the clock offense. One possession games or blowout games will tend to exhibit better basketball from a purely entertainment standpoint.

From a fan perspective, is it better to win ugly or lose looking skillful and athletic for 40 minutes? I think that most would argue that the win is most important.
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The TBT has a method devised by some statisticians to change the ending of games and make them less cumbersome for fans. NCAA is 100 years away from changing because they don't care and are making money.
 




UpAndUnder43 said:
The TBT has a method devised by some statisticians to change the ending of games and make them less cumbersome for fans. NCAA is 100 years away from changing because they don't care and are making money.
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Coaches have to vote for those changes and are opposed for several reasons.
 

ecoperson said:
I suppose the coaches and players would say that they don't care how they look at the end of the game. Its not about our enjoyment, it's about the win. If the change in tactics leads to an increase in their chances of winning, they will do it.

I would be interested to see an analysis of whether the intentional fouling at the end of the game provides any benefit. If you are down 10 with a minute to go, do you have even a chance to win with this technique?

My guess is that games where one team has a 5-8 point lead are going to be the ones that devolve into a parade of free throws and drain the clock offense. One possession games or blowout games will tend to exhibit better basketball from a purely entertainment standpoint.

From a fan perspective, is it better to win ugly or lose looking skillful and athletic for 40 minutes? I think that most would argue that the win is most important.
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On timeouts was thinking solely from a fan's perspective. No timeouts the last 3 minutes would make the game better from a fan's perspective.

On free throws, I wish Naismith would have not shot free throws during real time. Play the game in quarters. At first quarter break all accumulated free throws are shot, second and third quarter breaks the same. This would mean constant action where there is no stoppage for free throws during the first 3 quarters of play. Where we would disagree is I would shoot free throws in real time during the 4th quarter, which I know doesnt solve your issue.
 

Basketball is the only sport I can think of where you get rewarded for committing a foul. If you're behind in a close game, you foul on purpose to stop the clock and get the ball back. To keep the game moving, the rules could remove or at least reduce that "reward". There are a lot of ways that could be done. For example, after say 15 team fouls (pick a big number) if the team that's behind in the game commits a foul, in addition to the other team getting to take the free throws, 15 seconds is run off the clock.
 




UpAndUnder43 said:
Is one that the games would be enjoyable to watch?
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Well a whole lot of people love to watch it now. I am with you on how games get drawn out by excessive fouling but it does provide some miraculous comebacks. No easy solution. 15 second clock run offs has issues. They have discussed more than 10 fouls being two shots and the ball. Other changes have helped entertainment for many but not always made the game better.
 

builtbadgers said:
Well a whole lot of people love to watch it now. I am with you on how games get drawn out by excessive fouling but it does provide some miraculous comebacks. No easy solution. 15 second clock run offs has issues. They have discussed more than 10 fouls being two shots and the ball. Other changes have helped entertainment for many but not always made the game better.
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I agree. I was watching a game the other night and a team was fouling down 14 with under a minute. What is the point?
I still watch a good amount of college hoops but it doesn’t appeal to the general public at times.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
I agree. I was watching a game the other night and a team was fouling down 14 with under a minute. What is the point?
I still watch a good amount of college hoops but it doesn’t appeal to the general public at times.
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Understood but i have seen in person a power 6 team down 9 with 31 seconds left in the game to another power 6 team and win the game.Seems as though fans of teams that win championships are very happy with the game. They sell out often , they attract huge tv audiences. It would be great if games were like the last final 4 that was played. 4 elite teams, extreme high level basketball. Fans riveted to their seats. Teams that hack a ton play long games. Really like teams that do not foul a lot .
 

builtbadgers said:
Understood but i have seen in person a power 6 team down 9 with 31 seconds left in the game to another power 6 team and win the game.Seems as though fans of teams that win championships are very happy with the game. They sell out often , they attract huge tv audiences. It would be great if games were like the last final 4 that was played. 4 elite teams, extreme high level basketball. Fans riveted to their seats. Teams that hack a ton play long games. Really like teams that do not foul a lot .
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down 9 with the ball and 31 seconds is reasonable. They need to do something. TV timeouts pay money so those won’t go away
 

Plus I only bet overs. I love fouling the last two minutes you can get 18-20 points if the game stays in that 8-12 margin...
 

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