***OFFICIAL MINNESOTA AT BUTLER NIT FIRST ROUND IN-GAME POST-SEASON BASKETBALL(!!!) THREAD!!!***

I had a different question about that same play. I saw it was slightly blocked, so at that point it's off Butler, but it clearly bounced in bounds and then Payne goes after it to save it, seems like he touched it, then wouldn't it have been off Minnesota, last touched by Payne?
On the replay, you can see a ref put his hand up and whistle the ball dead before Payne touches it. What I would not tell was if it touched the stanchion before Payne touched it.

Either way, the ball was "dead" before Payne touched it. May have been a blown call.
 



I hated the "take the charge" BS that had taken over CBB the last 25 years. Fxch Duke.

In the "old days' you pretty much had to be standing there like a statue, then get run over to draw a so called charge.

The call in question was a true 50/50 call, as Garcia did not extend his arm, but the defender was sliding around in front of him, but not flopping in Duke/ Wisconsin coached manner. The officials got it wrong but it was not too bad of an offense.

Thankfully officials are officiating charge/ blocks like they did back in the 70s and 80s again, and that leads to a lot less BS and Duke/ Wisconsin flopping. I am so sick and tired of some defender, moving side to side and getting a so called "charge".

Maybe the big flop will go away forever as I hope the horrible and tight short shorts will soon go away.
If I were reffing, that play would have been a block. On the other end of the floor it would most definitely have been a charge.
 

Garcia had a great game!!
Mitchel defended like a pro
CC - struggled with his shot
Fox - MAN!! the energy is just unreal
Payne - had a good game but you can see his back is bothering him big time

Hawkins - Player of the GAME!!!!! 11pts 6 Rebs but come on.... 15 ASSISTS!!!! best game of the season for him!

can't wait for the next game!!
 


Great game last night. I have to give Johnson his due. The guy coaching against him is no slouch.
.716 winning percentage

Hawkins is a good rebounder for his size.
He lists himself at 5'11', same as Dug McDaniel and both grab 3.7 per game, most of any BIG player under 6 ft.
Hawkins gets the edge in the Per 40 minutes
Smith from Purdue is listed at 6 ft even grabs a whopping 5.8 a game
Lot of rebounds for a player listed at 6 ft

Pumped for the next game.
Oddly enough, I remember reading an article years ago about some stats that are surprisingly good indicators of whether or not a prospect will turn out and a couple of them were surprising to me untilI put them into context.

One of them was a guard/wing who is good at rebounding - especially if he isn't very big. A good example of this is Steph Curry. Steph averages almost 5 rebounds per game, that's more rebounds per game than Andrew Wiggins. It's a statistical correlation that seems to highlight people who see the game well. Like Steph needs to be able to read other people's shots, anticipate where the ball is going to go, have good vision, etc., to be able to get rebounds.

The same can be said for someone like Hawkins.


Oddly enough, another interesting stat is steal rate for guys over 7'. It's not that the steals are important, it's just a good piece of evidence that someone is not a stiff.
 

To be fair, the guy that had the ball is the nation's leading free throw shooter.
The Gophers not fouling the 95% shooter and him deciding to pass the ball for some reason was interesting.
I still can't believe he gave up the ball--with a blind panic pass, no less! That mistake was the difference at the end of the game, no doubt. The Gophs were gifted one for sure, but they had to accept the gift (get a good shot on the other end and make their free throws).
 






Butler was a satisfying win. Maybe broke a late season down spiral to surge along and gain confidence.
For me, there was also a mental aspect of it. The end of the year felt like there was a little bit of quit in the team. I am really glad I was wrong about that.

To me, it's a really good sign they came out fighting and playing hard. They wanted to be there and for me, I think it's a sign that this wasn't a team full of guys just waiting for the season to end so they could explore other options.

I'm probably reading way too much into it, but last night kind of felt like winning a bowl game in football.
 

Isn’t that how humans determine whether a win is good?
No.

I don't need to wait and pour over 30 other games before determining if this is a good win.

A road win vs a 9-11 Big East team IS a good win. Better than a home win vs many NET Top-25 teams.
 

No.

I don't need to wait and pour over 30 other games before determining if this is a good win.

A road win vs a 9-11 Big East team IS a good win. Better than a home win vs many NET Top-25 teams.
I'm looking at the NET Top-25 and I dont see how you get to that thought. But you do you, ETP.
 




On the replay, you can see a ref put his hand up and whistle the ball dead before Payne touches it. What I would not tell was if it touched the stanchion before Payne touched it.

Either way, the ball was "dead" before Payne touched it. May have been a blown call.
Can't have been a blown call. I've been told the refs are always against us.
 


Nice to see us get a win last night. A lot of Garcia just making plays down the stretch.

We need more scoring capable guards was a takeaway for me if we really want to be NCAA tournament next year, and clearly Ben and staff are making that a priority.

It's pretty clear Mitchell is a guy that needs to come off the bench. Carrington isn't ready to play big minutes either. To get a guy that can really play off of Hawkins and Christie would be HUGE.

Once again we just need more talented depth as well. A big or 2. Add, Add, Add in the portal Ben. The base is there.

It was a good NIT win though. Might as well keep playing.
 

For me, there was also a mental aspect of it. The end of the year felt like there was a little bit of quit in the team. I am really glad I was wrong about that.

To me, it's a really good sign they came out fighting and playing hard. They wanted to be there and for me, I think it's a sign that this wasn't a team full of guys just waiting for the season to end so they could explore other options.

I'm probably reading way too much into it, but last night kind of felt like winning a bowl game in football.
I get where you are coming from but I guess I didn't really pick up on any sort of quit down the stretch. They definitely struggled but still felt like they were out there fighting to win each night and just not able to put it together.

This was definitely a nice rebound game though to go on the road and beat a solid Butler team. Will be interesting to find out who the next game will be against and see if they can make a run at winning the NIT. Hopefully this tournament will serve as a nice springboard into next season when expectations will be higher.
 



I have a question on Hawkins "airball" from the top of the key. Since they reviewed it and saw it was ever so slightly touched by the Butler defender, then is it possible that has been the case with other similar shots of his during the year? If so, why did we just insist on reviewing that type of shot now?

It feels like Elijah may have be shortchanged on his shooting during the season.
I don't think they reviewed it because there was like 2:16 left in the game. I think the refs got together and changed the call.
 


No.

I don't need to wait and pour over 30 other games before determining if this is a good win.

A road win vs a 9-11 Big East team IS a good win. Better than a home win vs many NET Top-25 teams.
So you determined the win was good by analyzing their record against teams you determined are good? Isn't that exactly what the computer is doing?
 


We avoided a major discussion on coaching tonight by getting that steal with something like 10 seconds to go. Almost everyone fouls in that situation but we didn't. The outcome was amazing, for sure. :)
It looked like we were gonna foul, but the Butler player was running around like it's flag football and we just couldn't get him. Lucky for us he decides to pass it and Fox gets the steal and as they say, the rest is history.
 


I don't think they reviewed it because there was like 2:16 left in the game. I think the refs got together and changed the call.
So, were some of Elijah's previous airballs during other games also altered, ever so slightly, and just ignored or missed?

I'm concerned about actual bad/missed calls in games.
 







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