MSU/UW

Donate To GopherHole
SelectionSunday said:
I'm shocked a Badger fan would say that (tongue in cheek).

A tip. Learn how to accept a compliment when somebody's throwing one your (team or players) way. You sound like the old "My dad can beat up your dad" argument. Pointless.
Click to expand...

Do you really think it's outrageous for someone to think that Wisconsin might be better than Michigan State? As for the "my dad can beat up your dad," reference, i truly have no idea what you are talking about, but he totally could (joking).

I think Michigan State and Wisconsin are clearly the two best teams in the conference. Kirk Cousins is my favorite player in the country, including players on Wisconsin. I never said anything about MSU being bad, or not deserving to win. In fact, I said the opposite in both cases. I just think we are a better team.
 

Badger2010 said:
Do you really think it's outrageous for someone to think that Wisconsin might be better than Michigan State? As for the "my dad can beat up your dad," reference, i truly have no idea what you are talking about, but he totally could (joking).

I think Michigan State and Wisconsin are clearly the two best teams in the conference. Kirk Cousins is my favorite player in the country, including players on Wisconsin. I never said anything about MSU being bad, or not deserving to win. In fact, I said the opposite in both cases. I just think we are a better team.
Click to expand...

When they just lost this last weekend, yes. It's not like MSU winning was a major upset. If the Gophers beat Wisconsin this year I would absolutely say you have the better team but we (luckily, thankfully, etc) pulled offa big win. MSU and Wisconsin both had their down moments in the game and left points on the board. Michigan State has so far played a much tougher schedule (Michigan, OSU, Notre Dame trump the lone tough Nebraska opponent Wisc played) and then went on to BEAT Wisconsin. Wisconsin has little to prove they are better than MSU based on previous games played, and the H2H had MSU winning.

Typical home game point advantage in college (according to the experts) is about a field goal - 6 points. Wisconsin lost by 6 (would be 7 if they were allowed to kick a PAT). This stands to reason that on a neutral field they would in by 3-4.

I think MSU would maybe win 5.5-6 times out of 10 against the Badgers. Not a huge difference but still the better team.
 

RailBaronYarr said:
When they just lost this last weekend, yes. It's not like MSU winning was a major upset. If the Gophers beat Wisconsin this year I would absolutely say you have the better team but we (luckily, thankfully, etc) pulled offa big win. MSU and Wisconsin both had their down moments in the game and left points on the board. Michigan State has so far played a much tougher schedule (Michigan, OSU, Notre Dame trump the lone tough Nebraska opponent Wisc played) and then went on to BEAT Wisconsin. Wisconsin has little to prove they are better than MSU based on previous games played, and the H2H had MSU winning.

Typical home game point advantage in college (according to the experts) is about a field goal - 6 points. Wisconsin lost by 6 (would be 7 if they were allowed to kick a PAT). This stands to reason that on a neutral field they would in by 3-4.

I think MSU would maybe win 5.5-6 times out of 10 against the Badgers. Not a huge difference but still the better team.
Click to expand...

This is just silly reasoning. MSU did indeed win by 6 points, but considering the margin of victory came on a hail mary as time expired, I think it's safe to say that the game was closer than that. If MSU had kicked a field goal instead, by your logic, that means the two teams are even when factoring in Vegas' view of home field advantage.

MSU deserved to win the game, but as Badger 2010 has written, it took some plays (hail mary, blocked punt for td, blocked fg) that don't exactly happen every game to make it happen. Is MSU a good team? Absolutely. If both teams win out and play again in the B1G title game, would the Badgers be favored? I think they would.
 

Badger2010 said:
His coach wanted him to quit baseball for the remaineder of his college football days so that he could participate in summer training with his teammates. Russell Wilson wasn't willing to give up playing baseball (and the money he earned doing so), so O'Brien decided to name Mike Glennon, his first recruit after taking the HC job at NC State (#3 overall QB by Rivals, a real good player), the starter and told Wilson he wouldn't be able compete for the starting spot unless he committed fully to football.

He was then granted release from scholarship, and in between minor league baseball games, he visited Auburn and Wisconsin, and eventually chose Wisconsin.

That is the story. Every NC State fan who has come to the Wisconsin board has had nothing but great things to say about Russell Wilson. Do some research. The kid is about as perfect as you can be off the field. He doesn't drink, he is engaged, a great teammate, articulte, very smart, and he has never been accused of having an attitude problem, even by his old coach, who denied him the ability to compete for a starting spot, despite being named all ACC.
Click to expand...

"he doesn't drink" 5-4-3-2-1..........
 

Big game for the Badgers this week, National Championship is probably gone but the Rose Bowl is still on the line.
 


Ohio State could have a large say in who ends up in Indianapolis. Buckeyes still have Wisconsin (home), Penn State (home) and Michigan (road) on the docket. A stout defense and a lot of Boom Herron gives OSU a chance to pull off a win or 2 in these games. Sparty and the Huskers have to be glad they're done with the Buckeyes (with W's in their hip pocket), especially now that Herron is back.
 

Radio Badger said:
This is just silly reasoning. MSU did indeed win by 6 points, but considering the margin of victory came on a hail mary as time expired, I think it's safe to say that the game was closer than that. If MSU had kicked a field goal instead, by your logic, that means the two teams are even when factoring in Vegas' view of home field advantage.

MSU deserved to win the game, but as Badger 2010 has written, it took some plays (hail mary, blocked punt for td, blocked fg) that don't exactly happen every game to make it happen. Is MSU a good team? Absolutely. If both teams win out and play again in the B1G title game, would the Badgers be favored? I think they would.
Click to expand...

"... it took some plays" for MSU to win.

Let's see... Wisky was down by 14 points with 8 minutes left in the game. Pretty safe to say "it took some plays" for Wisky to even be in the discussion when the hail mary took place, not to mention it took MSU slightly taking it's foot off the gas and playing conservatively to even have allowed Wisconsin to come back.

It's good to know a blocked punt is a fluke play. It's nice to finally hear a Badger fan admit that it took a fluke play for them to beat the Gophers in 2005, even with the Gophers starting a QB who was making the ONLY start of his collegiate career.
 

Radio Badger said:
MSU deserved to win the game, but as Badger 2010 has written, it took some plays (hail mary, blocked punt for td, blocked fg) that don't exactly happen every game to make it happen.
Click to expand...

1. Punts and Field Goals happen in essentially every game. Good teams execute them properly, which is why, as you say blocked punts and FGs are rare. When you fail to execute properly (or the other team is just better than you), it is not a fluke.

2. I'll give you that the hail mary is more of a flukey play, but it didn't "take that play" to win the game, that's just how it happened to end. The game was tied and you can't say who would have won in overtime.
 

SelectionSunday said:
There's absolutlely nothing wrong with Wisconsin taking Wilson the way they did. Totally within the rules, though it certainly could be argued it's a silly rule.
Click to expand...

SS, why do you think it's a silly rule? It's one of the few rules in CFB that rewards a player for doing what they should be doing (if the student/athlete ideal is truly what college sports are about).
 



Ogee Oglethorpe said:
"... it took some plays" for MSU to win.

Let's see... Wisky was down by 14 points with 8 minutes left in the game. Pretty safe to say "it took some plays" for Wisky to even be in the discussion when the hail mary took place, not to mention it took MSU slightly taking it's foot off the gas and playing conservatively to even have allowed Wisconsin to come back.

It's good to know a blocked punt is a fluke play. It's nice to finally hear a Badger fan admit that it took a fluke play for them to beat the Gophers in 2005, even with the Gophers starting a QB who was making the ONLY start of his collegiate career.
Click to expand...

Please point out where any Badger fan in this thread has said MSU won because of fluke plays. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure you will come up with nothing.

Blind hatred is a funny thing. Oh well, at least you can live vicariously through the teams capable of beating us, because the Gophers certaintly are not, and probably won't be for at least another two or three years.
 

Trying . . . hard . . . not . . . to . . . have . . . a . . . bad . . . case . . . of . . . schadenfreude . . .

Seriously, only saw a view plays as I was on vacation, but I can't help but feel a little bit of sympathy for the Badger fans (and team, save the coach). Solid team that recruited the heck out of Wilson as the missing piece and it appears they'll still fall short of the national title.

They'll still probably win the Big 10 title and if enough strange things happen in regard to other teams, they could be in what now would be considered a strange trip to the national championship game. But again, a lot of strange things would have to happen for that opportunity to present itself.
 

That's where the B1G and Pac 12 have it so good. If their champions fall short of playing in the BCS title game, the Rose Bowl is a darn good consolation prize. ... and I'd hesitate to call it a consolation prize. The Orange, Sugar and Fiesta have nowhere near the cache as the Rose Bowl.

There's only 1 must-see bowl game on my calendar every year, the Rose Bowl. Much moreso than the BCS title game.
 

SelectionSunday said:
That's where the B1G and Pac 12 have it so good. If their champions fall short of playing in the BCS title game, the Rose Bowl is a darn good consolation prize. ... and I'd hesitate to call it a consolation prize. The Orange, Sugar and Fiesta have nowhere near the cache as the Rose Bowl.

There's only 1 must-see bowl game on my calendar every year, the Rose Bowl. Much moreso than the BCS title game.
Click to expand...

I heard an interesting thing on the local news when I was in Flagstaff, AZ over the weekend. They were interviewing the Fiesta Bowl chairman (or high ranking Fiesta official) and he was saying how excited they were because this year they had the first "choice" of games/teams that would play in PHX. What in the world was he talking about? I thought that stuff was somewhat set without much input from each individual BCS bowl site?

I'm hoping it means a great game for the Fiesta, personally. As a Club Level season tickets holder for the AZ Cardinals, last year they started offering Club tix holders to buy their seats for the Fiesta Bowl. Last year I opted not to buy; Oklahoma vs UConn just didn't do much for me and I was out of town anyway. A good game this year could bring in a nice return on initial investment, if I don't decide to go to the game.

EDIT: Scratch that. Going to the BCS site, I see the Fiesta gets the Big 12 Champ vs the #1 "At-Large" team. That must be what he meant about "first choice".

I do kind of agree with you, SS. They don't call the RB the "grandaddy of them all" for nothing.
 



Badger2010 said:
His coach wanted him to quit baseball for the remaineder of his college football days so that he could participate in summer training with his teammates. Russell Wilson wasn't willing to give up playing baseball (and the money he earned doing so), so O'Brien decided to name Mike Glennon, his first recruit after taking the HC job at NC State (#3 overall QB by Rivals, a real good player), the starter and told Wilson he wouldn't be able compete for the starting spot unless he committed fully to football.

He was then granted release from scholarship, and in between minor league baseball games, he visited Auburn and Wisconsin, and eventually chose Wisconsin.

That is the story. Every NC State fan who has come to the Wisconsin board has had nothing but great things to say about Russell Wilson. Do some research. The kid is about as perfect as you can be off the field. He doesn't drink, he is engaged, a great teammate, articulte, very smart, and he has never been accused of having an attitude problem, even by his old coach, who denied him the ability to compete for a starting spot, despite being named all ACC.
Click to expand...

Interesting that he chose a school with no baseball program to continue his dual sports pursuit at...
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
"... it took some plays" for MSU to win.

Let's see... Wisky was down by 14 points with 8 minutes left in the game. Pretty safe to say "it took some plays" for Wisky to even be in the discussion when the hail mary took place, not to mention it took MSU slightly taking it's foot off the gas and playing conservatively to even have allowed Wisconsin to come back.

It's good to know a blocked punt is a fluke play. It's nice to finally hear a Badger fan admit that it took a fluke play for them to beat the Gophers in 2005, even with the Gophers starting a QB who was making the ONLY start of his collegiate career.
Click to expand...

I have never heard anyone say the 2005 game was not a fluke. That is the beauty of that game. To get outplayed for 57 minutes and win a game in that fashion is about as good as it gets. If you saw a shot of Alvarez after the game, the look on his face was priceless. I don't think he has a clue how the Badgers won that game. It was one of the most unbelievable finishes I have ever seen. I know the plan before the game was not to have the punter drop the snap right in his hands to lead to a blocked punt for the go ahead score.

As for Saturday, that was a very exciting football game. It is too bad the Badgers did not execute better across the board, because the game was very winnable. MSU made enough plays to win the game and they deserve credit for that. There also was certainly no guarantee the Badgers win in overtime, though I would have liked to see them have the chance.

Hail Marry plays happen, you always hope it is not against your team, but they do happen. Football is not played in a vacuum, you can't just take this play out or just take that play out and assume the result of the game is going to change. Michigan State was the better team on Saturday night and they won. All you can do is go play the next one. People also only want to change the plays that went against their team. Do you think MSU wants the fumble back from the first quarter? Thinking like that is a great big waste of time.

I hope the Badgers can get back on track so they can have another shot at MSU in the title game. It would be fun to play them in Indy after two trips in a row to East Lansing.

Two things really impressed me about MSU on Saturday. They were down 14 and came back. The played the entire game without committing a penalty. Given the lack of discipline they played with the week before, that is very impressive. I only saw one obvious penalty that the officials missed, so they definitely deserve credit for that.

These are kids out there, busting their you know what to try and win the game. People are way to critical of them when they make mistakes. If the favorite always won the game, it would be really boring watching sports.

Saying, "we lost, but we were better" after the game is a losers lament. It does not do any good as a fan and it certainly does not help if the team or the coaching staff thinks that way.
 

Sparlimb said:
Interesting that he chose a school with no baseball program to continue his dual sports pursuit at...
Click to expand...

It is especially interesting because he has no collegiate baseball eligibility left. If he chose a school based on that, he would have been a moron and it is pretty clear that is not the case.
 


Ogee Oglethorpe said:
"... it took some plays" for MSU to win.

Let's see... Wisky was down by 14 points with 8 minutes left in the game. Pretty safe to say "it took some plays" for Wisky to even be in the discussion when the hail mary took place, not to mention it took MSU slightly taking it's foot off the gas and playing conservatively to even have allowed Wisconsin to come back.

It's good to know a blocked punt is a fluke play. It's nice to finally hear a Badger fan admit that it took a fluke play for them to beat the Gophers in 2005, even with the Gophers starting a QB who was making the ONLY start of his collegiate career.
Click to expand...

Help me with this one. I know there has been a rule change regarding when a player is run out (or knocked out) of bounds in college football. I don't know (and I could be wrong on all of this) this for fact, but I seem to recall that Mortenson got knocked out of bounds in the mid-to-late 4th quarter in Wisconsin territory and the clock stopped. If I am piecing this together, if the game were played today (and this isn't an excuse), we would have won because we would have never had to punt.

Of course, it didn't help that Dominic Jones got flagged for a personal foul on the touchdown pass to Williams, which moved up the subsequent kick-off and pinned the Gophers back. Just a comedy of errors.

The reason I allude to the rule change is that although I wasn't the President of the Glen Mason fan club, I can think of a couple of instances where rule changes in effect now would have given him two more wins (if I have this right). The other one would have been the Travis Dorsch FG that sent a game to OT when it was clear that the C couldn't have snapped the ball in time. Like him or not, Mason was hardly Mr. Lucky.
 

GVBadger said:
It is especially interesting because he has no collegiate baseball eligibility left. If he chose a school based on that, he would have been a moron and it is pretty clear that is not the case.
Click to expand...

He sure made a big deal about wanting to focus on baseball and not football as the reason he was leaving NC State:

Link
"Wilson said he wants to give a possible baseball career the same level of attention he gave football for the past six months"

Link
"Although I remain undecided on the option of playing college football this coming season..."

I'm not insinuating that he got paid to come to UW (though not out of the question and I think any transfers of high-profile athletes should be investigated SOMEWHAT), but he certainly played all the right cards to get out. If he wanted to focus on baseball, why leave a school that has a baseball program (where he can still train, workout, get some coaching tips), to go to a school without any of this to FOCUS ON FOOTBALL all summer and fall. Seems counter-intuitive is pro baseball is the route he really wants to go. He should have just been honest and outright say "I'm not sure if baseball or football is in my future, but I feel that if football is the route I take that I have a much better chance of developing and reaching the NFL if I transfer to a school that can help me get there. Unfortunately NC State is not that program at this time and while I thank them for everything I have to make this decision."

It also does raise eyebrows that he was choosing between UW and a program that so very recently came under national scrutiny for boosters giving benefits to the family member of a transfer QB. Just saying that it definitely should be looked in to but I assume Wisc is innocent until proven guilty.
 

RailBaronYarr said:
He sure made a big deal about wanting to focus on baseball and not football as the reason he was leaving NC State:

Link
"Wilson said he wants to give a possible baseball career the same level of attention he gave football for the past six months"

Link
"Although I remain undecided on the option of playing college football this coming season..."

I'm not insinuating that he got paid to come to UW (though not out of the question and I think any transfers of high-profile athletes should be investigated SOMEWHAT), but he certainly played all the right cards to get out. If he wanted to focus on baseball, why leave a school that has a baseball program (where he can still train, workout, get some coaching tips), to go to a school without any of this to FOCUS ON FOOTBALL all summer and fall. Seems counter-intuitive is pro baseball is the route he really wants to go. He should have just been honest and outright say "I'm not sure if baseball or football is in my future, but I feel that if football is the route I take that I have a much better chance of developing and reaching the NFL if I transfer to a school that can help me get there. Unfortunately NC State is not that program at this time and while I thank them for everything I have to make this decision."

It also does raise eyebrows that he was choosing between UW and a program that so very recently came under national scrutiny for boosters giving benefits to the family member of a transfer QB. Just saying that it definitely should be looked in to but I assume Wisc is innocent until proven guilty.
Click to expand...

He wanted to try professional baseball, he was going to miss spring practice and summer conditioning. The NC State coach said no. He played with the Rockies farm team. Once he did that, he had no collegiate baseball eligibility remaining.

He had some family ties to UW. He saw an opportunity to come in and play with some outstanding offensive talent and he made his decision. It really is pretty simple.

The baffling thing is what O'Brien was thinking.
 

50PoundHead said:
Help me with this one. I know there has been a rule change regarding when a player is run out (or knocked out) of bounds in college football. I don't know (and I could be wrong on all of this) this for fact, but I seem to recall that Mortenson got knocked out of bounds in the mid-to-late 4th quarter in Wisconsin territory and the clock stopped. If I am piecing this together, if the game were played today (and this isn't an excuse), we would have won because we would have never had to punt.

Of course, it didn't help that Dominic Jones got flagged for a personal foul on the touchdown pass to Williams, which moved up the subsequent kick-off and pinned the Gophers back. Just a comedy of errors.

The reason I allude to the rule change is that although I wasn't the President of the Glen Mason fan club, I can think of a couple of instances where rule changes in effect now would have given him two more wins (if I have this right). The other one would have been the Travis Dorsch FG that sent a game to OT when it was clear that the C couldn't have snapped the ball in time. Like him or not, Mason was hardly Mr. Lucky.
Click to expand...

Yeah I forgot that Purdue is probably happy too. IIRC UW won when Orton had a last second fumble or some other misstep.

I wish only this; that someone would post a picture of the blocked punt and the hail mary for Myles Long. I am sure he would thoroughly enjoy those pictures.
 

GVBadger said:
I have never heard anyone say the 2005 game was not a fluke. That is the beauty of that game. To get outplayed for 57 minutes and win a game in that fashion is about as good as it gets. If you saw a shot of Alvarez after the game, the look on his face was priceless. I don't think he has a clue how the Badgers won that game. It was one of the most unbelievable finishes I have ever seen. I know the plan before the game was not to have the punter drop the snap right in his hands to lead to a blocked punt for the go ahead score.

As for Saturday, that was a very exciting football game. It is too bad the Badgers did not execute better across the board, because the game was very winnable. MSU made enough plays to win the game and they deserve credit for that. There also was certainly no guarantee the Badgers win in overtime, though I would have liked to see them have the chance.

Hail Marry plays happen, you always hope it is not against your team, but they do happen. Football is not played in a vacuum, you can't just take this play out or just take that play out and assume the result of the game is going to change. Michigan State was the better team on Saturday night and they won. All you can do is go play the next one. People also only want to change the plays that went against their team. Do you think MSU wants the fumble back from the first quarter? Thinking like that is a great big waste of time.

I hope the Badgers can get back on track so they can have another shot at MSU in the title game. It would be fun to play them in Indy after two trips in a row to East Lansing.

Two things really impressed me about MSU on Saturday. They were down 14 and came back. The played the entire game without committing a penalty. Given the lack of discipline they played with the week before, that is very impressive. I only saw one obvious penalty that the officials missed, so they definitely deserve credit for that.

These are kids out there, busting their you know what to try and win the game. People are way to critical of them when they make mistakes. If the favorite always won the game, it would be really boring watching sports.

Saying, "we lost, but we were better" after the game is a losers lament. It does not do any good as a fan and it certainly does not help if the team or the coaching staff thinks that way.
Click to expand...

Well put. Every now and then you surprise me by authoring something that is articulate, accurate, and relatively unbiased. Couldn't agree more with everything you said here. Very well done.

The OSU-Wisky matchup this weekend should be a good one. If the Buckeyes had anything remotely resembling an offense I would give them the nod because I think the OSU defense will come out with a chip on their shoulder. I'm expecting a relatively low scoring game. It'll be interesting to see how Wisky bounces back after a pretty physical game and tough loss, and a second consecutive road game. I told my boss who's a Buckeye fan that I would expect that if Wisky beats MSU, they'll beat OSU; if they lost to MSU, they'll lose to OSU. Still not 100% sold on that but the Bucks having two weeks to get ready will help.

Unfortunately for the Badgers, what I said a week or two ago about their schedule is very likely to come to fruition; I said it's likely that after MSU they may not play a ranked team the rest of the year. Right now, the best chances at that are PSU and Illinois. Illinois is iffy at best and PSU will have just had to go through Nebraska and Ohio State (road). Good chance PSU won't be ranked either. Not good for SOS, but what can you do.
 

Regarding Wisconsin possibly not getting another chance to play a ranked team the rest of the schedule, it doesn't really matter. If UW runs the table the rest of the way, and wins the B10 championship game (which will no doubt be against a ranked team, hopefully Michigan State), they will go to the Rose Bowl.

As a Badger fan it's pretty devastating to watch a possible NC opportunity go out the window, but the goal of winning the Big Ten and playing in the Rose Bowl is still very much alive.

Tough loss. MSU showed a lot of resilience coming back from the 14-0 deficit. All in all a great football game with a lot of twists and turns.
 

MNBadgerGuy said:
Regarding Wisconsin possibly not getting another chance to play a ranked team the rest of the schedule, it doesn't really matter. If UW runs the table the rest of the way, and wins the B10 championship game (which will no doubt be against a ranked team, hopefully Michigan State), they will go to the Rose Bowl.

As a Badger fan it's pretty devastating to watch a possible NC opportunity go out the window, but the goal of winning the Big Ten and playing in the Rose Bowl is still very much alive.

Tough loss. MSU showed a lot of resilience coming back from the 14-0 deficit. All in all a great football game with a lot of twists and turns.
Click to expand...

sconnie was NEVER going to win a NC this year. The defense is marginal and if you really believe they can beat LSU, Alabama or Okla State or even OK , your BADger education is really showing through.
 

tap said:
sconnie was NEVER going to win a NC this year. The defense is marginal and if you really believe they can beat LSU, Alabama or Okla State or even OK , your BADger education is really showing through.
Click to expand...

Wisconsin is rated higher academically than Minnesota.
 

tap said:
sconnie was NEVER going to win a NC this year. The defense is marginal and if you really believe they can beat LSU, Alabama or Okla State or even OK , your BADger education is really showing through.
Click to expand...

Their program at least got them a puncher's chance, which is more than we'll be saying for a long time. Nothing short of incredible. Hats off to them.
 



tap said:
sconnie was NEVER going to win a NC this year. The defense is marginal and if you really believe they can beat LSU, Alabama or Okla State or even OK , your BADger education is really showing through.
Click to expand...

You're blind hatred and ignorance of all things badger related is showing. Could they beat LSU, Bama, Oklahoma State or Oklahoma? Absolutely. Would they? Probably not.

My point was that had they run the table, they stood a very realistic chance of playing in the national title game. Once there, you never know what happens.

As for my badger education- I'm very happy with it, thanks. I could have gone to Minnesota, but chose to go to Wisconsin. I'm sure I would have failed out at the U though, right?
 

Really don't want to get involved in this but......

have to say this:
Wisconsin is an awesome school and anyone should be proud of attending there. The state of Wisconsin, as a rule, has no idea how fortunate they are to have such an excellent university. Also, the badgers I've known have represented them well.

....carry on.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom