Minnesota Kids

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josh087 said:
Swift - How long have they been passing the ball at Nebraska? What, they started right when Swift got there? Oh, what a coicidence. Is he in the NFL now?

D. Barber - in the top 5, and he got a scholly to MN. This was a pretty safe bet he'd turn out good. Not sure what your point is here. Sometimes you can't just blanket "top 3" every year.

Laurinaitis - How good would he have been at MN? Wouldn't have won all those awards, thats for sure. Good player, sure. See Barber above.

Decker - Yes, I'll give you one.

I. Anderson - You said it - on par with our receivers, nothing more.

Robinson, Gilreath - FCS contributors - nothing to get too hyped about.

Rest of the list - TBD.

While MN can once in a while produce a couple good players, overall the depth of upper level talent is not there. I couldn't care less where the Jimmys and Joes come from. We need more explosive talent on both sides of the ball and for the vast majority of it we'd better look elsewhere.
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I think you may have missed the entire point of the debate (when I posted this). Another poster was claiming that outside of the top3 players in the State of MN, "the rest of the players are backup/walk on material AT BEST".

My point in listing these players is that these are all kids from MN who are better than backups/walk ons (and were ranked outside of the top 3 in MN when they graduated). I never was claiming that all the kids were amazing, I was merely saying that these instate kids could have (or did) really helped the Gopher program, therefore recruiting instate (where you are much more likely to land these prospects by percentage) is important. Note, I never said that I think our team should be made up of kids only from MN. However, I do think it is important that come close to landing all of the D1 talent in the state.

Now to address your take on these guys:

Nate Swift: He is on the Jaguars Practice Squad, so he is quasi in the NFL. However, the point was that he would have been a good player on the Gophers. I realize Nebraska didn't throw a lot in the past, that is why I listed is stats in his SR year. I think a guy who had 63 rec, 941 yards and 10TDs in his SR year in the Big 12 could have helped the Gophers. Call me crazy.

Dominque Barber: My point was that he was a kid outside of the top 3 in the state who turned out to be a good football player, and one of the better DB's in the Big 10. He is also in the NFL.

James Lariniatis: I know he played with some talent around him, but c'mon. Every single year LB's at tOSU play with talent around them and they don't do as well as Larinaitis. Additionally, the kid is leading his team in tackles (by 30) in his rookie season. It's safe to say he was more than merely a product of going to tOSU, and obviously would have helped the Gophers.

Isaac Anderson: I guess it is just my point that if he has been as good as Brandon Green, Troy Stoudamire, and DaJon McKnight, then it probably wouldn't hurt us to have him on our squad either. Like I said, it's not like I was proclaiming these kids to be program changers, just they would help.

My entire point is that there are players outside of the Top 3 in our state that would have either been a pretty good functioning part of our team (Isaac Anderson, Gilraeth, etc.) and there are guys who would have been one of the better players on our teams (Laurinaitis, Swift), and they are far more than merely Big 10 quality walk ons.
 

bankonit said:
After the top maybe 2 to 3 players the rest of the Minnesota kids year in and year out just are not the type of talent to carry a program, they are serviceable at best. The Henderson's, Floyd's, Laurinaitis' are rare Minnesota talents. Most others are backup or walk on material.
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Even an aging secret agent without a television contract can figure out this claim is utter nonsense. Just start listing Minnesota hs grads who have proven exceptional college / pro players. The pros who didn't receive attention from major schools probably should have and subsequently would likely have had success there also. As much talent as Florida? No, but nearly devoid of very good major college level talent on an annual basis? You're stretching.
 

Stuff

Interesting fact is that Wayzata itself has 4 players in the NFL right now (Ben Hamilton of Denver Broncos as well) and Tarpley wasn't even offered by the U. Many feel that Olson the other linebacker was better and he wasn't even offered. Rivals rankings take no consideration of academics and several kids that are studs end up not being recruited because they can't get into school or have other issues. Royce White ie...
 

Is it a coincidence that Florida and Texas for example consistently have top ranked recruiting classes and consistently are top level programs? Would Florida be good with classes consistently ranked in the 50's and 60's? Getting the top level kids is very important and usually the more 4 and 5 star players you have the better off you will be. Not many programs are winning with squads made up of 2 star players and unranked "diamonds". My main point is Rivals ranking system is usually a pretty good indicator of the caliber of talent a kid is. They don't find them all. And Minnesota kids usually just are not as good as players from the south
 

(1) I put stock in Rivals/Scout/ESPN, but they are getting as much or more from coaches and others involved in recruiting than coaches get from them (at least from what I have observed). Those services provide shorthand for the less-knowledgeable (myself included). I've always thought that the "stars" are awarded based on the "buzz" a recruit generates. How is "buzz" created? By talking to the people recruiting the kids and getting their input.

(2) It's important to get the best recruits in your state, especially one our size, because it sends a message to kids in other states that the home-state recruits consider the home-town university to have a program worth investigating. Why should a kid from Texas, Florida, or anywhere else want to consider going to Minnesota if the top Minnesota kids aren't giving the program a chance? When you travel abroad, you always ask the locals for their favorite restaurants to stay away from the tourist traps and get the real thing. Same thing here. What the locals say speaks volumes.

(3) Nate Swift is, as stated above, on the Jacksonville Jaguars practice squad. In other words, he's one of the best approximately 2,000 football players in the professional ranks right now. Mason told Swift he was too slow to play in the Big 10. In fairness to Mason, Swift did walk on at Nebraska and earned a scholarship later. I've got nothing against Logan Payne, who also has made the professional level, but I think getting home-state kids like Swift, who are comparable, is more important. In Swift's case, not expressing interest in him had as much to do with us losing Lydon Murtha as Murtha's excursion to Deja Vu.
 


Let's hear it for VB Ashley Wittman from Shakopee selecting to play VB at the U of M! Nation's best HS female VB player stays home to play for the maroon and gold....it does not get better than this!
 

bankonit said:
Is it a coincidence that Florida and Texas for example consistently have top ranked recruiting classes and consistently are top level programs? Would Florida be good with classes consistently ranked in the 50's and 60's? Getting the top level kids is very important and usually the more 4 and 5 star players you have the better off you will be. Not many programs are winning with squads made up of 2 star players and unranked "diamonds". My main point is Rivals ranking system is usually a pretty good indicator of the caliber of talent a kid is. They don't find them all. And Minnesota kids usually just are not as good as players from the south
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Speaking of Texas, you do realize that Rivals only had Colt McCoy rated as a 3 star coming out of high school, I guess Mack Brown knew something that Rivals didn't. FYI.. Sam Bradford was only a 3 star as well.
 

GopherGod said:
Speaking of Texas, you do realize that Rivals only had Colt McCoy rated as a 3 star coming out of high school, I guess Mack Brown knew something that Rivals didn't. FYI.. Sam Bradford was only a 3 star as well.
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That's great. What's your point?
 




Bankonit, you're holding an intellectually dishonest diatribe here. All we get from you are assumptions, generalities and the glaring truth minus a few facts omitted. Every time someone provides specific refutation you back water and reestablish your position on new terrain. Minnesota kids prove to be as talented as other states year in and year out. Not as many, obviously, we also have shorter seasons and smaller population. However, your hazy assertion that beyond the top three players lies a veritable wasteland of Gopher state talent is just flat out wrong. What's worse is that for a Minnesota football fan it's wrongheaded.
 

GopherGod said:
My point to him is that you cannot go solely based on Rivals ratings as he likes to do. It was not directed to you.
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I fail to see anywhere on this thread, or anywhere else for that matter, where bankonit has said that you must solely go on Rivals ratings. Good job of chastising him for something he didn't say, though.

Of course you can pick out plenty of exceptions, such as 2-stars who played in the NFL or 5-stars who turned out to be complete busts. That isn't indicative of anything. The fact is that Rivals rankings are overwhelmingly predictive of success in college (and the NFL) for a great majority of players. It has been statistically proven.

It's not a coincidence that USC, Texas, Florida, Alabama, etc. are perenially atop the recruiting standings and the on-field standings, while Army, Louisiana-Monroe, Louisiana-Lafayette, etc. are always on the bottom of both. (Insert your smart-assed exception-proving remark about TCU, Boise St., Utah, Notre Dame, etc. here.)

Any idiot with a keyboard can sit for days on end and point out those who outperformed or underperformed. That doesn't change the fact that recruiting rankings are very useful as a predictive tool.
 

Sorry to burst everyone's baloon, but bankonit has been on the money when it comes to Rivals.

College coaches all use Rivals in some form or another. Guess what? They also use Scout because it shows who has offered the kids.

Of course, coaches had to evaluate players before these sites came out - but honestly, these sites have made college coaches lazier.

The good news for all of you: One of the programs that is still pretty old school in recruiting is Minnesota. They watch A LOT of game tape - not just highlights. These guys bust their tails, no joke.
 

One more thing for those of you who care: Although ESPN is relatively new to the game, they are picking up some serious steam and they will easily surpass Rivals and Scout by this time next year. They gunna be real big
 



This has to be the most embarrassing thread I have ever read in my life. Boy they brain wash people over there at GI.
 

MNBadgerGuy said:
This has to be the most embarrassing thread I have ever read in my life. Boy they brain wash people over there at GI.
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So you know more than statistical evidence proving that the rankings are right more often than they are wrong? Boy, they really do breed some sharp ones over there in Madison! Smarter than proven statistical fact! Wow!
 

KoolAid said:
One more thing for those of you who care: Although ESPN is relatively new to the game, they are picking up some serious steam and they will easily surpass Rivals and Scout by this time next year. They gunna be real big
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ESPN is slowly becoming my site of choice on recruiting matters. Glad to hear someone who likely knows more than me think it's becoming the strongest site.
 


I thought there would be more METRO kids going to NDSU, but this is it for now:

committed to NDSU

Billy Turner, 6-5, 270, Arden Hills (Mounds View), MN, OL
Boen Anderson, 6'3, 300, Minnetonka, MN/NDSCS (JUCO),
Adam Schueller, 6-4, 295, Fergus Falls, MN, OL (Campion's ex teammate)
Andy Pfeiffer, 6-0, 190 pounds, Mankato (Mankato West), MN, S

NDSU's is on FINAL 2 choices for these guys:

Grant Olson, 6-2, 220, Plymouth (Wayzata), MN, LB
Zach Vraa, 6-2, 185, Rosemount, MN
A. J. Troup, 6-2, 190, Plymouth (Wayzata), MN



In your discussion of "MINNESOTA MISSES" dont forget

Craig Dahl Mankato of NDSU, he is Starting FS for ST LOUIS now (Giants 2 years ago)
Ramon Humber Minneapolis (champlain park) NDSU Special teamer for Indy Colts.
 

Grant Olson Wayzata commits to NDSU and i just got a TEXT confirming it.

following quote off of the source's facebook:


"Grant Olson from Wayzata committed earlier today. Make no bones about it this is an awesome kid, one that will be a captain for the Bison down the road. Wyoming was recruiting this kid really hard and NDSU won out over the Cowboys & ARMY. The U of M never offered because they thought he was too short, check the schedule in two years and we will see who comes up short"

http://rivals.yahoo.com/minnesotapreps/football/recruiting/player-Grant-Olson-88857
 

lakesbison said:
Grant Olson Wayzata commits to NDSU its rumored.


following quote off of the source's facebook:


"Grant Olson from Wayzata committed earlier today. Make no bones about it this is an awesome kid, one that will be a captain for the Bison down the road. Wyoming was recruiting this kid really hard and NDSU won out over the Cowboys & ARMY. The U of M never offered because they thought he was too short, check the schedule in two years and we will see who comes up short"

http://rivals.yahoo.com/minnesotapreps/football/recruiting/player-Grant-Olson-88857
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FWIW I think Olson is better than Tarpley. I was really hoping he would walk on at Minnesota.
 

another one

Rosemount Minnesota MR FOOTBALL WR Zach Vraa has committed to NDSU.

Here's a good quote from Rosemount head coach Jeff Erdmann tonight:

"His best 40 time is 4.58 and he's run a 4.62. but that’s coming in as a freshman and he’s going to get faster. That’s the thing that bothered me about the Gophers. The Gophers say he has to be under 4.5. I would bet Eric Decker was not under 4.5 and look what he did."

Vraa isn't exactly slow. He got second in the 110-hurdles in the big-school state track meet last year. Said Erdmann: "I saw that race. Here he is, 6-3 and 200 pounds running against 5-7 and 160-pound guys and he gets second."
 

Good for the Sioux. They are putting together a nice class.
 

Gold Vision that was funny like 3 years ago, before NDSU dominated you twice in football on your field.

Why are you getting all pissy, this is a thread about MINNESOTA KIDS, and thats 2-3 that NDSU has gotten that Brewster offerred walk on's to. Im just reporting.
 

Is there some NDSU message board for this stuff?

JK
 


lakesbison said:
Rosemount Minnesota MR FOOTBALL WR Zach Vraa has committed to NDSU.

Here's a good quote from Rosemount head coach Jeff Erdmann tonight:

"His best 40 time is 4.58 and he's run a 4.62. but that’s coming in as a freshman and he’s going to get faster. That’s the thing that bothered me about the Gophers. The Gophers say he has to be under 4.5. I would bet Eric Decker was not under 4.5 and look what he did."

Vraa isn't exactly slow. He got second in the 110-hurdles in the big-school state track meet last year. Said Erdmann: "I saw that race. Here he is, 6-3 and 200 pounds running against 5-7 and 160-pound guys and he gets second."
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The knock on Vraa would be not his speed, but his quickness. He is a good sprinter, not great in and out of breaks. He had very little yards after catch in his career at Rosemount. He is also not a real physical receiver and when matched up against a similar athlete could have issues getting off of jams.

The biggest issue is the offense he played in. His career consisted of three routes: Hitch, Slant, Fly. He would have to re-learn the entire position because in the mid-line veer offense that Rosemount runs there is no such thing as route combo's or WR reads or anything like that.

He is a major project. He also has potential as he is a great leaper and equal or better hands than M. Floyd. I would love to see him as a gopher as a late offer to fill a spot of a guy they couldn't get. But I understand that the gophers coaches are not offering him. His only offer at this point is NDSU from what I have heard.
 

Rosemountian said:
The knock on Vraa would be not his speed, but his quickness. He is a good sprinter, not great in and out of breaks. He had very little yards after catch in his career at Rosemount. He is also not a real physical receiver and when matched up against a similar athlete could have issues getting off of jams.

The biggest issue is the offense he played in. His career consisted of three routes: Hitch, Slant, Fly. He would have to re-learn the entire position because in the mid-line veer offense that Rosemount runs there is no such thing as route combo's or WR reads or anything like that.

He is a major project. He also has potential as he is a great leaper and equal or better hands than M. Floyd. I would love to see him as a gopher as a late offer to fill a spot of a guy they couldn't get. But I understand that the gophers coaches are not offering him. His only offer at this point is NDSU from what I have heard.
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He had offers from Air Force and UND. Pretty good get for the Bison being an FCS school, probably more of project at the Big 10 level. The MVFC and FCS in general has a lot of undersized corners.
 

FargoBison said:
He had offers from Air Force and UND. Pretty good get for the Bison being an FCS school, probably more of project at the Big 10 level. The MVFC and FCS in general has a lot of undersized corners.
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Was not aware he had gotten into AFA. I know his teammate Max Buscher got in and is strongly considering.
 

Rosemountian said:
Was not aware he had gotten into AFA. I know his teammate Max Buscher got in and is strongly considering.
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Yeah, he picked up an offer sometime in December from Air Force. Didn't know that Buscher had an offer from them as well, but I did hear that he recently committed to Northern Iowa.
 

Tim Sauer went down there a few years back now. Big 6'7 kid who needed to fill out. He redshirted and then got PT in every game this season. He had a grayshirt offer from the gophers when he was on his visit, but didn't accept right away. I think the offer went away before he made his final decision.
 

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