Make no mistake. The responsible party for this team circling the drain is ..

Who’s responsible?

  • Ben Johnson

    Votes: 40 35.7%

  • Coyle

    Votes: 40 35.7%

  • Ganglehoff

    Votes: 7 6.3%

  • Clem Haskins

    Votes: 4 3.6%

  • Pitino

    Votes: 6 5.4%

  • Mega-Tongue

    Votes: 11 9.8%

  • The Administration

    Votes: 53 47.3%

  • UNC - maybe we are secretly serving their sentence

    Votes: 8 7.1%
  • Total voters
    112
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Dave H said:
But that is the point. If you can't blame Ben Johnson you can't blame Tim Brewster. It is not his fault the school hired him despite him not being qualified. (I am not actually saying this is true, I am saying that is the excuse people are using to not blame Johnson)

Also if the Administration and Coyle get the blame for hiring Johnson then they have to get the credit for hiring PJ and Motzko.

You can't have it both ways.
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I have no idea what your point is.

The Administration and Coyle hired Ben Johnson. That is on them not Johnson.

What Johnson has shown is he should have never been given the job. That part is on him.

It really is that simple.
 


howeda7 said:
Utah is not Arizona in basketball.

Every coach and their wife "love it" wherever they are. Means nothing 99% of the time.
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I hope so!

The other 1% of the time, sometimes, a guy can feel pretty jaded. Especially when that same AD is still here.
 



Apparently Lindsey took a $200K buyout rather than be Coyle's "fundraiser", even though it cost her $900K. I wonder if Ben will get the same offer.
 

howeda7 said:
Apparently Lindsey took a $200K buyout rather than be Coyle's "fundraiser", even though it cost her $900K. I wonder if Ben will get the same offer.
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Ben's buyout after year three will be a bit higher.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I think people continue to mix two different lines of thought here. Does the administration deserve blame for when they make a bad hire? Yes. But after they make a decision on who to hire, it's 100% on that person to make the most of that job.

The administration or Coyle isn't running these programs. Coaches with no or limited head coaching experience have been successful at other P6 programs now, and in the past.

Ben is the CEO of the basketball program and is in control of every aspect of it, just like PJ is in football, and Motzko is in hockey. Does the administration deserve praise for their success? Why does the administration want those programs to be successful and not basketball? If coach P is successful on the women's side, unlike Whalen, that's not because of how coach P operates compared to Whalen? The administration just waved a magic wand and said now coach P will be successful?

The administration isn't recruiting 10 power forwards and no guards. The administration doesn't refuse to use all of the allotted scholarships. The administration isn't choosing assistant coaches or the schedule.

Ben sold himself to the administration on why he's the right person for the job, and why he was going to be successful here. But now we're going to say that the outcome was predetermined, that it's not his fault, and we just need to be ok that he's essentially stealing money and reducing the program to its worst state in history?

It's ridiculous to blame this on anyone else other than Ben Johnson.
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If your 8 year old convinces you he can drive your car and crashes it into the garage. It is your fault for letting him drive and everything that comes after that.
 

WoodburyTim said:
If your 8 year old convinces you he can drive your car and crashes it into the garage. It is your fault for letting him drive and everything that comes after that.
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Ben Johnson isn't an 8 year old kid trying to drive a car. When hired, he was a 40 year old grown man with 16 years of assistant coach experience, including 5 at the U, and allegedly had strong ties to local AAU programs.
 




Gophers_4life said:
There is a very easy line in the sand that counters both of these posts (GWG's is far more thoughtful, but they both get at the same idea):

did the AD hire a guy who had never been a head coach before?


If yes: then at minimum equal blame falls on the hiring decision, if not more.

If no: then I'm much more sympathetic to these posts.
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Fred Hoiberg had never been a coach anywhere before taking the Iowa St job.
Micah Shrewsberry had zero D1 head coaching experience before taking the Penn St job, and had 3 terrible years as a head coach of a NAIA school prior.
Matt Painter was only a Missouri Valley level assistant before becoming the head coach at Illinois St for 1 year, prior to going back to an assistant at Purdue for 1 year, then getting the head job.
Mike Woodson had zero college coaching experience before taking the Indiana job.

Even Richard Pitino was nowhere near this bad despite only being a low level head coach for 1 year.

There are many more examples of inexperienced coaches becoming good head coaches, and many examples of experienced head coaches being complete failures at this level. It's on that person to succeed.
 

:sneaky: dude come on. You literally listed five guys who had head coaching experience. Hoiberg was a head coach in the NBA. So was Woodson.

None of the four are close to Ben Johnson.


You don't hire a guy who has zero head coaching experience to a P5 job. That's on Coyle

It's a line in the sand, that you don't cross.
 

Gophers_4life said:
Trying really hard to cover up that he had zero years of head coaching experience. Good effort

That's on Coyle
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Tom Izzo was 40 years old 16 years of assistant coaching experience, and no head coaching experience when he was hired a Michigan State. After three years at Duke they were calling for Mike Krzyzewski’s head. Ben’s first two recruiting classes look solid next year‘s income and class is very promising. If the gophers turn the corner and win 7-9 games in the conference this year and stay competitive then can you really say it was a bad hire.
 



Rocksoldier said:
Tom Izzo was 40 years old 16 years of assistant coaching experience, and no head coaching experience when he was hired a Michigan State. After three years at Duke they were calling for Mike Krzyzewski’s head. Ben’s first two recruiting classes look solid next year‘s income and class is very promising. If the gophers turn the corner and win 7-9 games in the conference this year and stay competitive then can you really say it was a bad hire.
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I think that would take us about to where we were when Richard was fired. The jury would still be out on the “bad hire” question. The okay recruiting doesn’t do much for me in the free transfer era. The likelihood of keeping that core together is small.
 

K hired in 1980 with five years head at Army, Izzo hired in 1995, Painter hired in 2005 (with more than zero head experience).

If Coyle was using these guys to justify the hiring of Ben Johnson in 2021 .... I mean, just yikes. He deserves more than half the blame, then.
 

Rocksoldier said:
Tom Izzo was 40 years old 16 years of assistant coaching experience, and no head coaching experience when he was hired a Michigan State. After three years at Duke they were calling for Mike Krzyzewski’s head. Ben’s first two recruiting classes look solid next year‘s income and class is very promising. If the gophers turn the corner and win 7-9 games in the conference this year and stay competitive then can you really say it was a bad hire.
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Please no more K comparisons, we had enough of that during the Pitino years lmao
 

Gophers_4life said:
K hired in 1980 with five years head at Army, Izzo hired in 1995, Painter hired in 2005 (with more than zero head experience).

If Coyle was using these guys to justify the hiring of Ben Johnson in 2021 .... I mean, just yikes. He deserves more than half the blame, then.
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Believe me, I’m not saying it was ever a good hire, in my eyes the administration is gutless and they went cheap. I also have much more faith in Ben than I ever did with patino
 

Gophers_4life said:
:sneaky: dude come on. You literally listed five guys who had head coaching experience. Hoiberg was a head coach in the NBA. So was Woodson.

None of the four are close to Ben Johnson.


You don't hire a guy who has zero head coaching experience to a P5 job. That's on Coyle

It's a line in the sand, that you don't cross.
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Hoiberg had zero head coaching or assistant coaching experience before taking the ISU head coaching job.

People mocked Indiana for hiring Woodson on this board because he had never coached college.

You think Matt Painter learned how to run a B1G program after 1 year of being a head coach at Southern IL, and 1 year as a P6 assistant? Ben Johnson had 10 years of P6 assistant experience.

Shrewsberry's only head coaching experience was being 32-63 at a NAIA school 13 years prior.

Chris Collins had zero head coaching experience before taking the NW job and won more at a much more difficult place to win.

Jerome Tang, zero college head coaching experience before K-State

Jamie Dixon, one year as a head coach at a secondary school in New Zealand, zero head coaching experience in the USA before landing at Pitt

Greg Gard, zero head coaching experience before Wisconsin

Brian Dutcher, zero head coaching experience before San Diego State

Tommy Lloyd, zero head coaching experience before Arizona

There are many more examples and none of them are even close to as bad as Ben Johnson
 


I've seen people saying Johnson should not have even applied, or should not have accepted the job once it was offered.

that's just not realistic. the job was posted - Johnson met the requirements - he was interviewed - he was offered the job - and he accepted.

does anyone honestly think that, at that point in the process, Johnson was going to stand up and say "you know what, I don't think I'm really capable of doing this job, so I'm going to turn it down."

at that point, he has no way of knowing whether he would ever have another opportunity like this.

Now, is it possible that Johnson over-estimated his ability to recruit - or under-estimated the difficulties he would encounter at MN? Yes, I think that is very possible. But if I was hiring someone, I would rather hire someone who is confident in their ability to do the job as opposed to someone who has doubts about their ability to do the job.
 


MonikerSchmoniker45 said:
And he was trying to get paid millions of dollars.
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So what? So is every other inexperienced coach who takes a head job at this level, and many of them become more successful.

Making millions of dollars now gives you a pass to be the worst coach in program history?
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Hoiberg had zero head coaching or assistant coaching experience before taking the ISU head coaching job.

People mocked Indiana for hiring Woodson on this board because he had never coached college.

You think Matt Painter learned how to run a B1G program after 1 year of being a head coach at Southern IL, and 1 year as a P6 assistant? Ben Johnson had 10 years of P6 assistant experience.

Shrewsberry's only head coaching experience was being 32-63 at a NAIA school 13 years prior.

Chris Collins had zero head coaching experience before taking the NW job and won more at a much more difficult place to win.

Jerome Tang, zero college head coaching experience before K-State

Jamie Dixon, one year as a head coach at a secondary school in New Zealand, zero head coaching experience in the USA before landing at Pitt

Greg Gard, zero head coaching experience before Wisconsin

Brian Dutcher, zero head coaching experience before San Diego State

Tommy Lloyd, zero head coaching experience before Arizona

There are many more examples and none of them are even close to as bad as Ben Johnson
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This is tremendous work, GWG. On the other side, you have guys like Archie Miller at Indiana who you would have thought was a decent hire.
 



Everyone one will be supporting this hire a year from now. Ben will be loyal to Minnesota and stay to build a Gopher BB dynasty. Equal or better than Izzo. He has brought in a dizzying number of 4 Star players. We have 6. Just start crying now about Zay and Fox. The recently released videos make a liars out of the Doogie led naysayers. We have B1G quality guards. At least 4. Our front court will be dynamic. We have depth. CBJ is on the cusp of a gigantic leap. Read this and weep haters. We could finish as high as 3rd this year.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Ben Johnson isn't an 8 year old kid trying to drive a car. When hired, he was a 40 year old grown man with 16 years of assistant coach experience, including 5 at the U, and allegedly had strong ties to local AAU programs.
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Wait, really? I thought this thread was literally about an 8 year old Ben Johnson driving a car. How embarrassing...
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I've seen people saying Johnson should not have even applied, or should not have accepted the job once it was offered.

that's just not realistic. the job was posted - Johnson met the requirements - he was interviewed - he was offered the job - and he accepted.

does anyone honestly think that, at that point in the process, Johnson was going to stand up and say "you know what, I don't think I'm really capable of doing this job, so I'm going to turn it down."

at that point, he has no way of knowing whether he would ever have another opportunity like this.

Now, is it possible that Johnson over-estimated his ability to recruit - or under-estimated the difficulties he would encounter at MN? Yes, I think that is very possible. But if I was hiring someone, I would rather hire someone who is confident in their ability to do the job as opposed to someone who has doubts about their ability to do the job.
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Did he put his own name in, or was he recruited to apply by people inside the U? It goes both ways in the hiring process quite frequently. And lots of people interview for jobs they are not ready for. But not many of them actually get the jobs.
 

This is really very simple.

The UM needed a HC and posted the position and qualifications. Ben applied and was hired. Obviously he met the qualifications of the posting. Are you with me thus far or do we need to start from the beginning?

The question is who is responsible? Again it’s very simple. The UM.

Going one step further, the other question is who is responsible for the teams record? That is worthy of a different discussion.
 


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