Leidner

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Well it looks like I really didn't miss much from somehow DVR'ing the wrong game. Sounds like typical Gophers...Play Cup Cake non-conference slate and then get raped in the Big Ten (Especially the conference Opener)...I was really hoping for a win today.
 

Twinsfan007 said:
Well it looks like I really didn't miss much from somehow DVR'ing the wrong game. Sounds like typical Gophers...Play Cup Cake non-conference slate and then get raped in the Big Ten (Especially the conference Opener)...I was really hoping for a win today.
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IF you are a twinkie fan...don't EVEN come here bashing my Gophers. So, how did the season go for the twinkies? It was basically over after the first dozen games or so.
 

Rodney's Open said:
Coaches also like to fall in love with their guy at the most important position on the field. They usually wait way too long to make a chance. Leidner may not be the answer, but even that one pass to Maye gave me more hope than Nelson has. That is how bad Nelson has been.
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That one pass to Maye last week was very similar to the situation in which Nelson over threw Engel late in the game. I am very confident that Leidner could have hit that throw and many of the throws Nelson missed, not all, but most.
 

TrueGopherFballfan#1 said:
That one pass to Maye last week was very similar to the situation in which Nelson over threw Engel late in the game. I am very confident that Leidner could have hit that throw and many of the throws Nelson missed, not all, but most.
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Based on that one pass??
 



Nelson didn't have it yesterday. Leidner probably didn't have it either, but he at least deserved a shot to show it. I feel like Kill owed him a shot based on what he did for the team the last two weeks.
 

Spoofin said:
Based on that one pass??
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Maybe I am getting a little ahead of myself saying he could have made most of those passes. I am just pretty sure he could have atleast made that one pass to Engel which would have cut this game down to 1 possession. The passes Nelson missed were unacceptable as a collegiate QB and most QB's around the country can hit those even the smaller schools.
 

Spoofin said:
Based on that one pass??
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The point is Leidner showed he can make that throw. It may have only been once, but it was more than Nelson has showed.


Look at how big of a difference even crappy Matt Cassel made for the Vikings offense today.

We aren't saying Leidner will compete for the Heisman, but imo he has showed that he has a chance to make this offense better.
 



TrueGopherFballfan#1 said:
Maybe I am getting a little ahead of myself saying he could have made most of those passes. I am just pretty sure he could have atleast made that one pass to Engel which would have cut this game down to 1 possession. The passes Nelson missed were unacceptable as a collegiate QB and most QB's around the country can hit those even the smaller schools.
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I don't disagree with your point. I personally wish Kill would have brought Leidner in yesterday. The pass you referenced would have brought us within six with over 10 to play. It would have been huge. However I am not convinced Nelson is bad because he had a bad game. I'm also not convinced Leidner is a great QB because he ran over SJSU (or made a nice pass on his way to a 5-12 week). I think a number of players and the coaches had a bad day - I just want to believe that it can get better this year and I'm trying not to read too much into small sample sizes (such as the Iowa game or a single good pass in the SJSU game).
 

Rodney's Open said:
The point is Leidner showed he can make that throw. It may have only been once, but it was more than Nelson has showed.
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Purdue 2012.

Nelson may turn out to be a flop, but let's not seal the fate of a true sophomore that is still learning quite yet.
 

TrueGopherFballfan#1 said:
That one pass to Maye last week was very similar to the situation in which Nelson over threw Engel late in the game.
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That Leidner/Maye pass was much more similar to the touchdown pass Nelson threw to Engel yesterday.
 

Spoofin said:
I don't disagree with your point. I personally wish Kill would have brought Leidner in yesterday. The pass you referenced would have brought us within six with over 10 to play. It would have been huge. However I am not convinced Nelson is bad because he had a bad game. I'm also not convinced Leidner is a great QB because he ran over SJSU (or made a nice pass on his way to a 5-12 week). I think a number of players and the coaches had a bad day - I just want to believe that it can get better this year and I'm trying not to read too much into small sample sizes (such as the Iowa game or a single good pass in the SJSU game).
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I just know that this team this year is kore talented than in th past and they have the talent to win games even in the hard big ten and it was obviously shown on the Iowa game that talent was shown especially by the WR's but the plays were not made. I hope kill can work with this talent and make these plays during the game because if we can we can win a few games and maybe even a upset. That game was bad against Iowa but it could have been way worst. Our D looked recent for being on the field that long and if we can keep them off th field longer with making passes and getting the running going a little bit we can give teams a ran even possibly a descent Michigan squad next week.
 



Liedner is not a good passer. Maybe he has gotten a lot better since high school, but he was not even the best passer in the south suburban conference his senior year of high school.
 

the game was just as JK coaches his team when up against a better team. ball control- keep it close and 1 m15J td. many fans will hate Jerryball cuz thats all there is to it.
 

Rosemountian said:
Liedner is not a good passer. Maybe he has gotten a lot better since high school, but he was not even the best passer in the south suburban conference his senior year of high school.
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And he wasn't a good runner in high school. He's two years removed from that, maybe he's gotten better.
 

6 Nov 1999 said:
John Galt,

1. For the last 6 to 8 months I have been fed a steady weekly diet through the StarTribune and Pioneer Press about how this coaching staff may utilize the dual QB threat (Nelson & Leidner) as they did with Chandler Harnish and Jordan Lynch at NIU. They quoted this coaching staff many times on this line of strategy. So inquiring minds would like to know why they had no confidence in Mitch Leidner today? If they truly believe and embrace the Harnish / Lynch tandem formula, then why did they not exercise it today?

2. I don't follow NIU football as a general rule (except when they play Minnesota), so if I got the names of their dual threat / share playing time QBs wrong, I apologize. I think Mitch Leidner should have been given a chance today. What I saw in the 2nd half is Albert Einstein's definition of insanity in action, "doing the same thing over and over expecting different results."
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#1 is a good point. They've talked about rotating QBs to take away some of the hits, but we still haven't seen it.

As for #2, why do fans only ask this question regarding the QB? The O-line obviously wasn't working, should we have put in all the 2nd teamers to mix it up and see if they could do better? I've been to many practices, and more importantly the coaches see both guys every day. Nelson is the better passer and runner.
 

No one in gopherhole is EVER happy about they QB position.

when weber was starting everyone wanted Gray (freshmen).
when Gray was starting everyone wanted Shortell (true freshmen).
when Shortell was starting everyone wanted to go back to Gray or to start Nelson (true freshmen).
when Nelson is starting everyone wants Leidner.

Nelson is only a sophomore. He should be on the sidelines watching a more senior QB playing and learning. we don't have that luxury. So he is going to make mistakes and we are going to have to roll with them. Is Leidner the answer? Maybe. But he is still going to make a ton of mistakes that infuriate everyone on this board.

So should we start demanding Chris Streveler? History shows its just a matter of time before we all start demanding another true freshmen be thrown into the fire.
 

paulser21 said:
No one in gopherhole is EVER happy about they QB position.

when weber was starting everyone wanted Gray (freshmen).
when Gray was starting everyone wanted Shortell (true freshmen).
when Shortell was starting everyone wanted to go back to Gray or to start Nelson (true freshmen).
when Nelson is starting everyone wants Leidner.

Nelson is only a sophomore. He should be on the sidelines watching a more senior QB playing and learning. we don't have that luxury. So he is going to make mistakes and we are going to have to roll with them. Is Leidner the answer? Maybe. But he is still going to make a ton of mistakes that infuriate everyone on this board.

So should we start demanding Chris Streveler? History shows its just a matter of time before we all start demanding another true freshmen be thrown into the fire.
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No, the better Question would be why can't we get a good QB up here or get them better why they're here?
 

This is a really interesting situation they have at QB.

On the one hand, I have no doubt that Nelson stands out in many respects; he has a LOT more experience, he probably has a better grasp of the offense, and it's very likely that he throws the ball better than Leidner, although probably not substantially.

On the other hand, for whatever the reason, I think Leidner is more "unpredictable" (for lack of a better word) when he's running the offense, and therefore maybe more difficult to defend. Nelson seems to give on the read option so much more early in games, and then racking up his carries and yards on the ground later in the second half, when the defense has gone more to selling out to stop the RB between the tackles.

With Leidner, he's keeping that ball on the read option early and often. Not only did he have some success doing that, but more importantly, that led to a lot more success for the RB's as the game goes on. SJSU in particular started giving Leidner WAY too much respect in the 2nd half and that's when they really started gouging the Spartans on the ground with Cobb and Nugget.

I don't know what the answer is moving forward. I definitely would have put him in Saturday when things weren't going well, and probably would have started him anyway.
 

Since when is Nelson a good passer? Obviously his receivers stink but he really hasn't shown he is so much better at passing than Leidner. And he doesn't actually show much moxy when he is out there on game day, hardly an inspiring leader so far. I really don't give any credence to the excuse about his age as the rest of the team is not exactly a bunch of grizzled veterans looking down on an upstart QB. They are not any older than he. And the coaches clearly laid an egg again this last game so trust in their judgment understandably is eroding at an accelerating pace.
 

Iceland12 said:
No, the better Question would be why can't we get a good QB up here or get them better why they're here?
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No, the better question is how you have already determined no one on our roster is good or will get better?? Nelson and Leidner are So & Fr for God's sake.
 

Spoofin said:
No, the better question is how you have already determined no one on our roster is good or will get better?? Nelson and Leidner are So & Fr for God's sake.
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My point exactly.
 

It seems like Kill thinks he owes Nelson the benefit of the doubt. It's like Kill is trying to protect him from getting pulled. It's like he thinks the quarterback's psyche is fragile, whereas the confidence of the running backs and receivers is not. I'm not sure why he would feel that way, but that's the way it seems to me. Maybe he treats Nelson differently becasue he was a higher recruit than Leidner. Obviously Nelson feels pressure to perform. Kill was quoted in the paper after the game as saying he left the decision up to Nelson as to starting or not. He said only Nelson knew if he was 100%. Nelson chose to start, but obviously was not 100%. He chose not to run pretty much the whole first half for some reason, which takes away the read option. When he did run, he was obviously not 100%. I'm pretty sure the coaching staff knew Iowa would make the Gophers pass to gain any yards, which makes it frustrating that Nelson's passes were so inaccurate. He just never seems to throw a good looking ball. It seems like he is trying not to lose, rather than trying to win. It's like he is trying too hard and lacks confidence. Maybe a sports psychologist would help. Leidner seems more confident. He uses the read option to his advantage. Does't over think it. He seems more exuberant and less cautious. When he got to play after Nelson was injured he seemed to be able to step up to the challenge. He executed the read option better. Even the next game when he started he continued on from where he left off. He didn't go into a shell and try not to lose.
 

The Iowa QB, a soph, didn't take a single game snap last season. Let's find more excuses for Nelson.

I agree with the poster who said that either Nelson or Leidner won't be on the roster at the start of the '14 season.
 


maroon and gold said:
The Iowa QB, a soph, didn't take a single game snap last season. Let's find more excuses for Nelson.
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A redshirt sophomore, meaning he has a full season's extra experience on Nelson in the system and playbook. Don't let that get in the way of your agenda, though.

maroon and gold said:
I agree with the poster who said that either Nelson or Leidner won't be on the roster at the start of the '14 season.
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If they're both so terrible, why would either transfer? They should be hanging on to dear life for their roster spots since they're incompetent quarterbacks.
 

paulser21 said:
No one in gopherhole is EVER happy about they QB position.

when weber was starting everyone wanted Gray (freshmen).
when Gray was starting everyone wanted Shortell (true freshmen).
when Shortell was starting everyone wanted to go back to Gray or to start Nelson (true freshmen).
when Nelson is starting everyone wants Leidner.

Nelson is only a sophomore. He should be on the sidelines watching a more senior QB playing and learning. we don't have that luxury. So he is going to make mistakes and we are going to have to roll with them. Is Leidner the answer? Maybe. But he is still going to make a ton of mistakes that infuriate everyone on this board.

So should we start demanding Chris Streveler? History shows its just a matter of time before we all start demanding another true freshmen be thrown into the fire.
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Do you think it has anything to do with a lack of success? Win and you won't hear it.
 

John Galt said:
#1 is a good point. They've talked about rotating QBs to take away some of the hits, but we still haven't seen it.

As for #2, why do fans only ask this question regarding the QB? The O-line obviously wasn't working, should we have put in all the 2nd teamers to mix it up and see if they could do better? I've been to many practices, and more importantly the coaches see both guys every day. Nelson is the better passer and runner.
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Why can't fans who see 60 minutes of plays on game day, have never coached -- maybe never played -- understand that Kill and his staff have forgotten more than they'll ever know? LOL.

Paulser21's post #48 points out the other amusingly popular issue with the QB on half the pro & college teams. Good job!

And to gopherfannnn post #54: loyalty is a huge aspect of what Kill's program is all about, but he's not going to stick with a player if he has a better one on the bench. His decisions will be "big picture" also, like the decision to pull the red-shirt on Nelson last year and stick with him down the stretch. Go check out the NY Jets fiasco with handling the fragile psyche of Mark Sanchez and realize that making a knee-jerk change can have long-term ramifications that can actually set the program back.
 


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