Was thinking the same thing.
Josh Martin to seek transfer from U
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Was thinking the same thing.
PhillyGopher
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I was told there would be no math
fryguy22
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But what are the numerator and denominator of that 2%?
2pi/(i^2)
Winasota Gopher
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I understand it. And as long as the U has academic admissions guidelines like they've had in the past, and Richard continues to recruit intelligent individuals, we'll be completely fine.
Mr Warrior is making a much bigger deal out of this than it needs to be. Is it good to have two guys count as 0/1? absolutely not, is it bad? Sure. Is it going to single handedly put us in a dumpster fire situation? Absolutely not.
Norwood Teague was just on the fan. He commented on Martin. Said that there was not hard feelings and that Richard is happy with the roster we got. Gardy asked Teague why there is a transfer epidemic across NCAAB right now. Teague said that AAU has players thinking they should be playing right away as freshman. Teague said he was speaking generally and that this did not apply to Martin, but it clearly seemed like it was
HOOP DREAMS
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AAU is garbage in many aspects.
Lincoln gopher
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No it is not going to put us in a dumpster fire, but it gives the Gophers no room for error. One of these mysterious transfers could happen again in the next couple of years and they could be in trouble.
I pretty much understand this process and like him or not it was GW that explained it to me on this very site. He knows it better than most.
HOOP DREAMS
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He sure does...
Someone should tell him he no longer writes for this site.
alchemy2u
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He also said that it turned out not to be a good fit on many levels...
The transfers today are a lot different than they were when we had players like Moe Hargrowe leaving and then coming back.
Am I correct that Wally Ellenson's father had a word with Pitino at one point about Wally's playing time? Or maybe it was Wally? If it was the former, and Marcus's source is correct about Martin's father, then there is a pattern here of players no longer being on the team once their parents have crossed the rubicon and brought their grievances to Coach P. I wonder what those conversations are like!
I guess the question becomes: Once parents become involved does coach tell them in no uncertain terms that its time to move on? Or is this a decision that is solely being made by the athlete?
Am I correct that Wally Ellenson's father had a word with Pitino at one point about Wally's playing time? Or maybe it was Wally? If it was the former, and Marcus's source is correct about Martin's father, then there is a pattern here of players no longer being on the team once their parents have crossed the rubicon and brought their grievances to Coach P. I wonder what those conversations are like!
I guess the question becomes: Once parents become involved does coach tell them in no uncertain terms that its time to move on? Or is this a decision that is solely being made by the athlete?
Your last paragraph: A lot depends on how much input his mom's BFF has.
cncmin
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This. Just unreal. We were just getting to the pushover part of the schedule, where Josh could have been expected significant minutes to work on his game. Instead...he does this. It really should be more than a lack of playing time.
No offense, but not a big loss. Based upon the ball handling skills that he has displayed, it would be like Mav transferring in his freshman year because he wasn't getting 20 minutes a game at point!
Seany
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I was excited when we landed Martin and was really looking forward to watching his development as a Golden Gopher, and him seemingly wanting to be here so badly only made that seem all the better to me. It's too bad he didn't have the wherewithal to stick it out, and ultimately mostly just unfortunate that he has such poor paternal guidance in his life. As a father myself, all I can wonder is does this boy's father not realize the message he's sending to his son, that message being that hey, when times get tough and things are not going immediately as you believe they should be, then it's okay and maybe even preferred to simply just pack up your sh*t and bug out. Clearly this man has failed and is continuing to fail to instill in his son some of the basic realities of life, those being that no matter how talented, how 'good' you perceive yourself to be at anything, things will not always go your way nor according to your own timetable, and that you will face tough times, and you will face adversity in your life. So by giving your children this fundamental knowledge, you can then instill in them the values of perseverance, of patience, of sticking to it at all times but most of all when times seem tough, because that is what ultimately and most of all builds character. You don't just cut and run when things get rugged, you work harder to get through the problem.
I will say it's better off he's gone, as clearly neither himself nor his father respected his coach's authority as well as his knowledgeability to be able to determine when the kid was ready to play without being a complete liability out there, and that's just plain disrespectful. Again, that's poor parenting, and it's also incredibly dimwitted, because it fails to take into account the fact that the coach has every reason in the world to want to see his players succeed, and if he's being tough and blunt with a boy, he's not doing that out of spite nor to be a jerk but rather as an effort to try and bring out the best in a kid. So if he's being rough on you, then by all means feel free to go right ahead and get pissed-off at him and about that, as that's just human nature, but channel that anger into motivation, into working harder all the time to get better, if only to stick that in his face, shut him up and get him off your back, and mostly just prove to him that "Yes, I can play."
I just look at a player like DeAndre Mathieu, and how Coach Pitino will get right up into his grill and verbally tear him a new one during games when Mathieu's screwing up or not playing up to his capabilities, and DeAndre simply accepts that and listens, because that motivates him and because he knows that his coach is not doing that for any other reason than to try and make him a better player. He knows that Pitino cares for him, loves him, and believes in him, and that sometimes love is required to be of the tough variety. Now that's a young man who clearly had good influences in his life, and those have made him a better person. Martin? Well, judging by his father's actions and advice in this, he's under a less than positive influence, and that's just a shame for the kid.
I will say it's better off he's gone, as clearly neither himself nor his father respected his coach's authority as well as his knowledgeability to be able to determine when the kid was ready to play without being a complete liability out there, and that's just plain disrespectful. Again, that's poor parenting, and it's also incredibly dimwitted, because it fails to take into account the fact that the coach has every reason in the world to want to see his players succeed, and if he's being tough and blunt with a boy, he's not doing that out of spite nor to be a jerk but rather as an effort to try and bring out the best in a kid. So if he's being rough on you, then by all means feel free to go right ahead and get pissed-off at him and about that, as that's just human nature, but channel that anger into motivation, into working harder all the time to get better, if only to stick that in his face, shut him up and get him off your back, and mostly just prove to him that "Yes, I can play."
I just look at a player like DeAndre Mathieu, and how Coach Pitino will get right up into his grill and verbally tear him a new one during games when Mathieu's screwing up or not playing up to his capabilities, and DeAndre simply accepts that and listens, because that motivates him and because he knows that his coach is not doing that for any other reason than to try and make him a better player. He knows that Pitino cares for him, loves him, and believes in him, and that sometimes love is required to be of the tough variety. Now that's a young man who clearly had good influences in his life, and those have made him a better person. Martin? Well, judging by his father's actions and advice in this, he's under a less than positive influence, and that's just a shame for the kid.
underground629
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underground629
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Stop pretending to be so naive. We did Tubby dirty. There's no denying that. If we were gonna fire him after our best season in a long time, we never should've extended him the year before. We also shouldn't have let him find out through the media.
At Tubby's stage of his career, Pitino made sense. Yes, Tubby finished on a good note (merely in the sense that we won a tournament game, but the season was torture after the beginning of conference play), but the firing had to do with the direction of the program. Recruiting was only declining and Tubby continued to disappoint. We collapsed our way into the tournament in the year that was supposed to be our year and then we got incredibly lucky that UCLA had just lost their best player. Please don't pretend like you were hopeful about the direction of the program. The best we could hope for was what Tubby showed in his final year, which was disappointment considering it was his best team. Tubby's last year was his ceiling at this stage.
Anybody who thinks the program was better off with Tubby is lost. It sucks that we're so short on players, but have a good year and nobody cares. I don't mind that these types of players weeded themselves out--it just can't happen all the time. At least it's the worst players doing this.
At Tubby's stage of his career, Pitino made sense. Yes, Tubby finished on a good note (merely in the sense that we won a tournament game, but the season was torture after the beginning of conference play), but the firing had to do with the direction of the program. Recruiting was only declining and Tubby continued to disappoint. We collapsed our way into the tournament in the year that was supposed to be our year and then we got incredibly lucky that UCLA had just lost their best player. Please don't pretend like you were hopeful about the direction of the program. The best we could hope for was what Tubby showed in his final year, which was disappointment considering it was his best team. Tubby's last year was his ceiling at this stage.
Anybody who thinks the program was better off with Tubby is lost. It sucks that we're so short on players, but have a good year and nobody cares. I don't mind that these types of players weeded themselves out--it just can't happen all the time. At least it's the worst players doing this.
GopherOhana
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Coach is accountable for players and recruits. Great learning experience for a young coach. Doubt we will see another recruit with this type of baggage
SelectionSunday
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Yep. Can't be with your recruits 24-7, but that's part of the deal with the monster compensation these big-time coaches receive. For better or worse part of their job is to vet the character of their recruits, and I say that knowing there aren't always signs a kid will do something to reflect poorly on himself/coach/program. I'm much more concerned about the (alleged) reasons for McNeil's (potential) departure than Martin's.
GophersInIowa
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What baggage? Just because it ended like this doesn't mean there was ever signs that it was going to happen.
WindyCityGopher
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I just read a really cool profile of Aaron Rodgers in a book excerpt on si.com (full disclosure, I'm a Packers fan and a huge fan of Rodgers, as a player and person). In it, he tells about how the adversity he went through helped make him stronger and, eventually, the best player in the NFL. When I read the quote below I immediately though of Josh Martin and the countless other entitled athletes who aren't willing to fight through the adversity to be better. Instead, they embrace a loser's mentality of running away from the challenges to something easier.
“You really need to remember where you came from and have appreciation for the journey that you went on,” Rodgers said. “I think a lot of kids these days, especially with the outlets we have, the exposure that we have, where a lot of these young guys are ‘blue-chippers’ from the time they’re in high school to the time they get drafted, there’s not a ton of adversity that they go through. I dealt with adversity on every level, from not getting recruited out of high school to going to junior college, to being a backup in D1, to falling farther than I thought I would in the draft. For me, it was great, because I got to sit and learn and be with the disappointment. Those experiences can either strengthen your character or make you really bitter. Thankfully for me, it really strengthened my character and gave me a good resolve.”
http://mmqb.si.com/2014/12/11/nfl-a...man-the-making-of-modern-quarterbacks-the-qb/
“You really need to remember where you came from and have appreciation for the journey that you went on,” Rodgers said. “I think a lot of kids these days, especially with the outlets we have, the exposure that we have, where a lot of these young guys are ‘blue-chippers’ from the time they’re in high school to the time they get drafted, there’s not a ton of adversity that they go through. I dealt with adversity on every level, from not getting recruited out of high school to going to junior college, to being a backup in D1, to falling farther than I thought I would in the draft. For me, it was great, because I got to sit and learn and be with the disappointment. Those experiences can either strengthen your character or make you really bitter. Thankfully for me, it really strengthened my character and gave me a good resolve.”
http://mmqb.si.com/2014/12/11/nfl-a...man-the-making-of-modern-quarterbacks-the-qb/
GopherOhana
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Not responding positively to coaches that yell and playing for a coach that yells is a travel bag
Expecting to play significant minutes from the start might be a large roller bag
These should have come out during discovery, not after go live
No diss on Rodgers but it's bigger than that. Not being recruited by the schools you want to play football isn't really 'adversity'. Going to JUCO for free isn't 'adversity'. Being drafted lower than you wanted in the 1st round of the NFL draft isn't adversity. Not having food to eat at home is adversity. Not having solid parental influence is adversity. Not having a winter coat is adversity. This is just sports and these kids all have it better than most in that they get the opportunity to go to a reputable school for free and set themselves up to work in whatever field they choose without crippling student loans to deal with and with the advantage of great networking opportunities. These kids need to get a clue. If you can't handle everything not going your way on the court when you have every other advantage then you're going to struggle once nobody cares about your athletic ability anymore in a few years
Or they simply weren't watching the conference games very closely during that last year. Despite the NCAA tournament appearance (which they didn't deserve in my opinion) and a win, I don't know if I've ever seen a season from a team I cared about that started with such reasons for optimism and ended with such disillusionment. Plus, he seemed to have lost his touch in recruiting. Those last two recruiting classes (including the last one that didn't come here) were really weak.
WindyCityGopher
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Come on, he's obviously talking about adversity from the relatively narrow mindset of an athlete, not from a larger world sense. And all the things you write at the latter part of your post seem to synch with what Rodgers says, that to realize those opportunities you sometimes have to stick it out through times that are difficult for you to accept, like not getting playing time, getting yelled at by your coach, seeing other guys you think you're more talented than ahead of you in the rotation. "Those experiences can either strengthen your resolve or make you really bitter." A winner like Rodgers chose the former path; Martin obviously succumbed to the latter.
GophersInIowa
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I guess we'll just have to disagree. Should a college coach who yells sometimes shy away from recruits who have HS coaches who don't yell? I'm not sure how you recreate the experience Martin had with Pitino prior to him arriving.
Virtually every player has to make an adjustment when they go to college. In high school they always play, and they are usually the center of attention. You get to college and everyone is like that. Some kids get over that and understand that pretty quickly, others (like Martin) don't get it.
Pitino deserves some of the blame because he recruited him, I just don't think it is fair to say he should have seen this coming.
StCroix
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His dad got involved? Helicopter parent? End of story. Good luck Josh, maybe daddy can coach you so you don't get yelled at. We don't need that kind of player/family as part of the organization.
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SelectionSunday
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Reminds me of an e-card recently posted on my Facebook page
"I'm afraid of a world run by adults who were never spanked as children and won trophies just for participating."
"I'm afraid of a world run by adults who were never spanked as children and won trophies just for participating."
GopherOhana
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I think we agree. I wouldn't expect a young and new coach to see the signs. Ten years from now I think he will. I don't mind the incident and think its a great learning experience for coach.
No intent on my part to disparage coach and suggest blame. I'm happy to live with any bumps along the way as he develops as a coach
mnsportsgeek
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Let me see if I have this straight. A middle of the pack 3* recruit thinks he should play more 8 games into the season as a freshmen. I wouldn't even accept a 4* feeling that way. I get there are egos in sports and the best players are going to have them, but it's a complete waste of time to have to deal with an ego that big for a player that was a project at best.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out.