Jerry Kill...is he the right guy?

More and more, it seems like college FB is becoming a speed game, with the spread and hurry-up offensive schemes. It was bluntly evident that TCU was simply much faster than the Gophers at most positions Saturday.

It's hard to know whether the game plan and play calling are all on Limegrover, or Kill. I was expecting to see a more open game, more jet sweeps, swing passes, and attempts to get Edwards and D. Jones out in space.

I'm honestly not sure whether the Gophs are that bad, or if for some reason I cannot fathom, they are holding back elements of the offense until the conference season. Or, if they went vanilla to try and protect Leidner. No matter what the reason was, it wasn't pretty.

Even after today, I think this team can win 6 or 7 games, but I agree they have to settle the QB issue in order to really take a step forward.
 

Kill still falls well short of Mason. Mason beat every Big Ten team and won 10 games in one season. Until the next coach does that, they fall short of Mason.

Jusr as a reminder, Mason won 10 games in his seventh season. He won six games in year four ... after winning eight games in year three. Sound familiar?

Most of us were on board with Kill yesterday. This was a bad loss and raises legitimate questions. Let's see where this goes from here. Beat a beatable Michigan team in two weeks and we're back on the band wagon.
 

Im a big fan of Kill, and love the way he runs the team with hard love and discipline. But what I once viewed as a strength of his coaching, was the continuity of his staff, I now view as negative. I feel we have seen progress in the defense (despite todays game), but the offense is just awful. How about injecting a new style, and a new coach or two somewhere on that side of the ball? Instead of making changes and improvements in the coaching staff, Kill is too timid to make changes and fire one of his BFF's.
 

Yes, Kill is the guy. We just have a HUGE glaring weakness at QB.

And Kill is the reason that we have that glaring weakness, due to how he dealt with Nelson.

There are only two possibilities:
1) Kill knew that Nelson was the superior QB, but wouldn't commit to him (in order to foster competition and keep both QBs hungry? Who knows.).
2) Kill couldn't identify that Nelson was the superior QB.

Neither possibility makes Kill look very good at his job.
 

Nope; have always said I didn't think he'd be HC past the 2015 season. The only thing is, Jerry isn't the only stubborn guy at the U.

Oh well. The Big Ten offers a lot of up-for-grab games.. maybe they can pull a string of games out and put together a good season.

Edit:


It's a fair and intelligent question. I think the answer is 'no' and the stubbornness of Kill won't allow him to adapt and grow enough.

Sadly, the Brewster hire I believe DID give Minnesota a chance because of the recruiting. Didn't work out, but there was a higher ceiling with Brewster than with Kill.

You, ahhh...profess to be a basketball expert right? I mean, you run a website dedicated to basketball, correct?

Yeah...let's keep it that way.
 



C'mon everybody... It's one game. I remember how so many of us were down on Coach Kill after the Iowa game last year; then we went on a 4 game win streak and we were partying like it was 1999.
 


I like Jerry Kill and want him to succeed, but I would be curious to hear if people have confidence in him taking this program to the next level. I know Minnesota is an after through for football and we have not been relevant for 50+ years but are we ok with being average every year.

I will admit that Kill came into a mess and did well to clean out a lot of the bad apples and improved academic performance. But just watching him and his staff I have questions on their scheme and vision for the program.

You are not going to win on talent alone so you need to come up with a scheme or concept that you can hang your hat on...before today i would have said power running. Where are some jet sweeps...or some swing passes to Berkley Edwards (probably not the best idea to run him up the middle on his limited touches). The QB position has been an utter joke and every QB they throw in there looks worse than the guy before. We hear all the time about how he developed Harnish and Lynch at NIU...you are in the Big Ten you should be able to recruit a QB that could be at least average.

Waving the white flag before halftime down 24-0 is concerning...punting on 4th and 1 with 51 seconds left down 23 is a joke (I know game was out of hand at that time).

I know I am going to get bashed for posting this but oh well

I admit that I'm a negative person and harsh critic, but I agree with this poster that the football decision making by Kill needs to be called into question. Kill is obviously well respected as evidenced by the recent poll where coaches were asked what coach would you like your son to play for. Kill tied for third place in that poll, which is impressive. But that does not mean he makes great football decisions. It means he's perceived as a decent man, disciplined, fair and has an ability to mold young men into responsible adults (all very important and praiseworthy).

In my little observation of Kill, he seems like a very "black and white" thinker. When he gets something in his head, I believe he can't see the "forest for the trees". He's resolute in his beliefs and for that reason he will definitely go down with this ship. Let's take a look at a few things:

The one thing this team has proven it can do is run the ball, at least against equal/inferior opponents and sometimes against marginally superior opponents. So, what would a clear thinking, logical human being do in that situation? Seems to me he would do everything he can to maximize the run game and create deception in the run game.

He would utilize all three of his good backs in Cobb, Kirkwood and Williams to keep them fresh, involved, interested and motivated. He would give them each 15 carries a game and let them each help you maintain a dominant rushing attack. He would also find ways to use two or three of them at the same time. That way, he could keep the defense guessing who was going to get the ball on any given play. He would run off-tackle, off guard, power sweep, counters, draws and triple option, all to the left and right, to keep a defense guessing what the hell play was coming next. He would also have his QB fake a handoff to the up back and throw a few swing passes to the other running back coming out of the back field.

He would also say to himself that one of the big reasons his running attack has been successful is because defenses never knew when the QB was going to hand off or keep the ball. He would understand that the read option has been a significant factor in creating a strong running attack. He would know that until he found a great passing QB, he would continue to employ a QB that was a significant running threat who would be expected to run for 500-700 yards for the season. He would know this was critically important to sustaining the offense that he'd begun to build the last two years.

The other thing a good decision maker would recognize (just like most if not all avid Gopher fans have) and say to himself is that I have an offensive line that has never proven it can provide adequate pass protection to create an effective passing game. He would say I have a sophomore QB that I observe can't look off a receiver, has difficulty going through progressions and understanding where the open receiver is most likely to be, and has difficulty making good throws. He'd tell himself I can't put that QB in a position where he needs to pass the ball to give us a chance to win. So, the only passes I'm going to ask him to make are bubble screens, swing passes to backs, short slant plays and other "quick hitters" and occasional deep throws and throws to his tight end. Most if not all will be off play action. I will never ask him to pass in a situation where a person is likely to be double covered and I will tell him to audible if it ever looks that way. I will have him throw these simple passes left and right and keep the defense guessing. I'm going to put him in position to succeed rather than fail. And if he demonstrates that he can't do that, I will give another QB the opportunity to demonstrate whether he can do that in a game situation.

It seems to me, that's what a clear thinking, goal-oriented, success minded coach would do. Instead, Kill has created an incoherent offensive mess that lacks any cohesiveness whatsoever, and he's 100% responsible for this. I believe this will be Kill's undoing, just like Brewster's undoing was his inability to create stability in his coaching staff and get his players to focus on school, grades and attending classes. The one thing that Kill has going for him that Brewster didn't is that Teague and Kaler have stated publicly and recently that they believe strongly in what Jerry Kill is doing. Because of that, Kill will definitely get to complete his contract term unless he resigns beforehand. But make no mistake, Kill has not demonstrated much common sense in building an effective offense. In fact, his decisions have made things substantially worse than they needed to be.
 



C'mon everybody... It's one game. I remember how so many of us were down on Coach Kill after the Iowa game last year; then we went on a 4 game win streak and we were partying like it was 1999.

Very true that it was just one game and there is no shame to losing to a team like TCU on the road. The problem is getting totally out-classed and looking like we didn't even belong on the field with them for much of the game, especially when our offense was out there. Our offense looks lost when they can't run the ball, in year 4 of the same system with the same coaches that is not a good thing.
 


Some of you forget just how insanely bad the Iowa game was. I haven't. This wasn't that bad. We were also on the road. Ferentz took mercy on us or the score would have looked worse. Conversely, Patterson was slinging it to the bitter end.
 

Nelson wasn't the answer. At this time Leidner not the answer. Is this a coaching problem or player problem -- discuss.
 



OK, Captain Taciturn, what are the 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. possibilities behind Nelson's departure?

That is not what you were discussing.

What you stated was:

"And Kill is the reason that we have that glaring weakness, due to how he dealt with Nelson.

There are only two possibilities:
1) Kill knew that Nelson was the superior QB, but wouldn't commit to him (in order to foster competition and keep both QBs hungry? Who knows.).
2) Kill couldn't identify that Nelson was the superior QB.

Neither possibility makes Kill look very good at his job."

And I was stating that you have not idea on how Coach Kill "dealt with" Nelson, but to say it was certainly one of the two options you proposed is ridiculous.
 

Nelson wasn't the answer. At this time Leidner not the answer. Is this a coaching problem or player problem -- discuss.

In Kill's "system", all we need is a semi-functional drone-type QB. Nelson achieved that lofty goal, Leidner doesn't.
 

Hard to say that when he was just ast terrible against elite defenses and playing at home vs all three to boot. You're free to have your own opinion though.
 

And Kill is the reason that we have that glaring weakness, due to how he dealt with Nelson.

There are only two possibilities:
1) Kill knew that Nelson was the superior QB, but wouldn't commit to him (in order to foster competition and keep both QBs hungry? Who knows.).
2) Kill couldn't identify that Nelson was the superior QB.

Neither possibility makes Kill look very good at his job.

I thought it was a horrible idea to remove a players redshirt that late into the season. Doing so meant Kill would be obligated to play said player the rest of the season (possible the next) which would end all pretense of an open competition. And result in multiple transfers at the position.

With that being said some folks are seriously overreacting after one loss. If you believed the gophers had the right coach before the game you should believe the same thing after the game.
 

I didn't see the game yesterday, no way of watching it over here, so I was only able to read the play by play descriptions. Therefore unsure if what I'm about to write is valid so willing to stand corrected. Also realise for the most part I'm stating a very simplistic argument in a long-winded way. Apologies - we all have our ways of dealing with disappointment and mine is to babble in an AJ style essay until I convince myself everything is fine.

Should we be patient with our coaching staff?

I think Kill and co have created overall a good defense but key injuries are testing our depth. Despite the occasional long return, I feel special teams play has improved massively in the four years I've been following. The running game is very productive against a lot of the lesser D1 teams but we struggle against the more physical teams when they are able to stack the box - it is the fact that opponents don't have to respect our passing game that means our run game suffers - with a decent passing attack I think our run game would be adequate against any opponent. First assumption is therefore that it is only the passing game that is broken.

So what is the problem with the passing game? Our TE position is strong and our No 1 big play threat wide receiver has great potential but is still learning (as a sophomore who was a high school QB) the ability to consistently get open. Whoever lines up on the other side doesn't yet have the speed or physicality to separate from the coverage. When they do get open the QB takes longer than time allows to go through his progressions and often misses the opportunity or the throws are rushed.

So who/what is to blame for the situation? Poor recruiting? Going back three years I expected Nelson, Harbison and McDonald to be leading our passing game now. On paper they looked like good recruits? Is the fact this hasn't worked out misfortune, the fault of the players themselves or an over disciplined/bad environment? I don't go with the last one, everything I see, like the clip of Kill dancing in the locker room, points to the fact that although there will be exceptions (Barker, Nelson?) Kill has great, in fact exceptional, relationships with the student athletes. Is the recruiting situation better going forward? it would appear so - the group of receivers in last years' class seemed very strong - as I think was the offensive class as a whole.

Is it a poor system or poor play calling i.e. Limegrovers fault? Well I would like to see us target Maxx more, particularly off play action, but in a chicken or egg type argument I'm not sure we can expand the system too much until the players are ready. Over the next two years I hope we can.

Will the passing game improve this year? Hope so although I'm not convinced - but I still see 6 or 7 wins and hopefully postseason success. Much better that the 3 win average we had previously.

Will it be better in the longer term? I think it will - I'm not quite sure how we are defining success because the way things are going being strong in the B1G might not necessarily equate to being strong nationally. But by 2016 2017 I still genuinely think we will have a shot at winning the West and maybe an upset in the B1G championship game.

Conclusion - keep patience, keep faith, keep smiling, keep hoping there is an elite high school QB who likes ice skating and is keen on early playing time, keep saving for a future New Year in California, keep taking the tablets and, most of all, 100% keep Kill.
 

Everyone keeps saying "target maxx more". I don't know the exact number but it looked like he was target 10+ times yesterday. The problem was he was double covered almost every down and even triple covered once and still thrown to. Targeting Maxx on every throwing down when he is double covered is just as one dimensional as our running attack offense that everyone keeps complaining about. Once they started hitting our other TEs (Pslek and goodger) all the sudden Maxx was only single covered and scored a touchdown. We need a QB that can look at more than one option, make a decision and deliver the ball in a timely manner. ML either stares at one guy then throws his way or takes too long making his decision and misses the window to deliver the ball in the correct time frame for the routes. Until we get a QB that can at least look at a 2nd option and deliver the pass there our offense will continue to struggle against above average defenses.

I don't think this is a Kill and co issue. Besides our OL and RB look how young our offense is:
QB- rSO
TE- rSO (Maxx is our best TE offensive threat wise no question)
WR1: JR/SO
WR2: SO

This is the issue. They are still learning. Which is hard to do with a QB that can't deliver the ball to you in a timely matter for your routes or with a spiral. I was really hoping ML could make some progress with a full spring and summer with the same group as the #1 guy but it doesn't seem like whatever the coaches see in practice (and what i saw at the practices I attended) is translating to the full speed of the game. But we have to remember all these "skill position" guys aren't the 5 star guaranteed to be NFL player recruits that can just come in and out perform most people at this level, they are guys who were probably the best at their highschool but not the best in their state and need to work and learn and get better to out perform others at this level.

OK too long. rant over.
 

Typical GH thread after a game like that -- the sky is falling. I'm not surprised, but find it amusing. I would like to offer some things to consider that make me believe this game looked worse than it was as a barometer of where the program stands.

1. TCU was #2 in the nation just a few years ago. Patterson is a good coach in a state rich with talent.
2. Good teams with a bye week before a game have a decided advantage. Team didn't play well in any area, but a lot had to go right for us to win.
3. Gophers have had some major injuries prior to this game. Poock? Keith?
4. Don't know how bad ML's injury was, but he actually did some good things in the middle of the 2nd half that were encouraging.
5. Limegrover had a bad game from an arm-chair-QB perspective, but O line play wasn't good.

I hope ML is OK and think by the end of his sophomore season, he will be a pretty good QB.
 

OK, Captain Taciturn, what are the 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. possibilities behind Nelson's departure?
I think you've created fond memories of Nelson now that he's gone. He had a few good games, but he also had some dreadful games, and was almost single-handedly responsible for us losing to Syracuse. Hindsight is 20/20, but when he left there were a lot of people who shrugged their shoulders. Disappointment all around.

Not to mention the whole "he's probably going to jail" thing.
 

I think max he gets us back to Mason levels. I don't believe he can get us to more than that based entirely off of our garbage offensive game plan and execution.
 

My favorite posts are the ones stating losing Nelson was the problem. I supported PN over ML, but one thing that was clear was they were basically equal. This board LOVES to look back at players and remember them FAR better than they were. Mark my words.... 2-years from now PN9 will be remembered in the same light as other past 'stars' like Shortell and DCT.

Sent from my MZ617 using Tapatalk
 

Typical GH thread after a game like that -- the sky is falling. I'm not surprised, but find it amusing. I would like to offer some things to consider that make me believe this game looked worse than it was as a barometer of where the program stands.

1. TCU was #2 in the nation just a few years ago. Patterson is a good coach in a state rich with talent.
2. Good teams with a bye week before a game have a decided advantage. Team didn't play well in any area, but a lot had to go right for us to win.
3. Gophers have had some major injuries prior to this game. Poock? Keith?
4. Don't know how bad ML's injury was, but he actually did some good things in the middle of the 2nd half that were encouraging.
5. Limegrover had a bad game from an arm-chair-QB perspective, but O line play wasn't good.

I hope ML is OK and think by the end of his sophomore season, he will be a pretty good QB.

Sky definitely isn't falling but there are some cracks in it. To your points:

1 - TCU was also a 4 win team last year. Time will tell where this years squad falls
2 - No shame in losing to TCU on the road but we were non-competitive with them and that is not good.
3 - Major injuries you site are on defense and we all know that is not the unit that is truly holding this team back. Offense for the most part was healthy.
4 - Mitch and the offense were a mess all game, if you look hard enough you can always find positives but it is hard to feel good about pretty much anything the offense did yesterday in my opinion.
5 - The play calling is what it is at this point. To the O-Line play comment, that is not a good thing considering that was supposed to be one of our deeper more experienced position groups heading into the season with lots of guys back with experience.

I can deal just fine with a competitive loss to a Big 12 opponent on the road but that is not what happened yesterday. We did not look like we belonged on the field with them for most of the game and that is not where this program should be at this point. The Big Ten looks like garbage again so the potential is still there for a solid record this year but that game yesterday was not good on pretty much any level.
 

I'm still with Coach Kill and how he is building the program. Emphasis on D, ground game and good Special Team play. Its very obvious that the talent is not where it needs to be in order to compete with a TCU. Leidner & the QB spot is just one of the areas we need better talent and is the most obvious. But there are still other weak spots and the over all team speed must get better.

Going into this season, I felt we would do well to get 6 W's and a hopefully a bowl game. Nothing has changed my thinking after watching this team for three games other than we may not get 6 W's. Our OL is still not there, we are thin and young at the DL and we our WR's are very young. This team is only starting about 8 Seniors so its still a young squad and we have put burned about 8 true Frosh redshirts.

I expected this loss as I picked TCU 31-13. But I did not like how we played and were out of the game right off the get go. Plus, I wonder how many of our guys on O would start for TCU.

Said that, I have thought that 2015 would be a better year but we will need to see some play makers show up, especially at
QB.

Good points.

Talent-wise, I think our defense is almost there.

The OL has never seen the caliber TCU's speedy defense before. Their play caused all sorts of missed blocking assignments and let to eventually a few turnovers due to sub-par QB play.

The Gophers were both out gained in passing & rushing even though the TOP was 34:25 for the Gophers.
The quick strike hurry up spread offense was no match for our normally stellar defense.

The Gophers OL & QB play has ways to go for the Gophers to be in contention in the upper echelons of B1G play. They better be making adjustments on their offensive schemes as they will be facing quite a few spread teams.

TCU football and yesterday's game serve as standards for where the Gophers need to go.

The Gophers need to hold there heads up high. They got beaten by a deceptively very good Big 12 team who were 4-8 last season, but could have easily been 8-4. TCU lost by a combined total of 11 points to Baylor, Kansas State, WVU, and Oklahoma.

Do I think Kill is the right guy? Yes I do at this moment in time.

He brought integrity & stability to a program that was left in shambles. He'll need to keep improving and develping. Rebuilding will take more than four years.

The QB development has been the hardest part of the rebuilding of the program. They'll get get this fixed.

A 5-7 to 7-5 season looms in the meantime.
 

And Kill is the reason that we have that glaring weakness, due to how he dealt with Nelson.

There are only two possibilities:
1) Kill knew that Nelson was the superior QB, but wouldn't commit to him (in order to foster competition and keep both QBs hungry? Who knows.).
2) Kill couldn't identify that Nelson was the superior QB.

Neither possibility makes Kill look very good at his job.

3) Nelson wasn't the superior QB, and they were essentially at the same level.
 

I think max he gets us back to Mason levels. I don't believe he can get us to more than that based entirely off of our garbage offensive game plan and execution.

FYI, in years 3-10 of Mason's time at MN, he averaged 7 wins a year and 3.6 BT wins.
 

3) Nelson wasn't the superior QB, and they were essentially at the same level.
4) Both PN9 and ML7 had to get it figured out in between there ears to be better. Quite frankly, with how ML7 has played this year and PN9 were still here, no doubt he'd be our starter.

The way ML7 has no self awareness when getting sacked on where he has the football and ball security is just sad. I just can't explain it. Maybe coaching? Confidence? Who knows.
 

Sky definitely isn't falling but there are some cracks in it. To your points:

1 - TCU was also a 4 win team last year. Time will tell where this years squad falls
2 - No shame in losing to TCU on the road but we were non-competitive with them and that is not good.
3 - Major injuries you site are on defense and we all know that is not the unit that is truly holding this team back. Offense for the most part was healthy.
4 - Mitch and the offense were a mess all game, if you look hard enough you can always find positives but it is hard to feel good about pretty much anything the offense did yesterday in my opinion.
5 - The play calling is what it is at this point. To the O-Line play comment, that is not a good thing considering that was supposed to be one of our deeper more experienced position groups heading into the season with lots of guys back with experience.

I can deal just fine with a competitive loss to a Big 12 opponent on the road but that is not what happened yesterday. We did not look like we belonged on the field with them for most of the game and that is not where this program should be at this point. The Big Ten looks like garbage again so the potential is still there for a solid record this year but that game yesterday was not good on pretty much any level.

TCU offense was MN bad last year. They averaged the exact same amount of offense as MN. They brought in a new OC and style to fit its players better. Four of their losses to the best of the Big 12 were by 11 total points. They stumbled last year, but I think they show their true talent this year.
 

4) Both PN9 and ML7 had to get it figured out in between there ears to be better. Quite frankly, with how ML7 has played this year and PN9 were still here, no doubt he'd be our starter.

The way ML7 has no self awareness when getting sacked on where he has the football and ball security is just sad. I just can't explain it. Maybe coaching? Confidence? Who knows.

Leidner just looks scared and overwhelmed out there still. It seems that before the play even starts, he has his mind made up where he's going to throw the ball. And either he throws it into double coverage or he panics when the guy isn't open.

We ran a play where Leidner rolled to the right and then tried to throw it back to Goodger on the other side. There were two guys with him and it was almost picked. Meanwhile, one of the receivers was open for a 5-6 yard hitch on the side he rolled to (it was 3rd and 4) but it looked like his mind was made up and he didn't even look at him.
 




Top Bottom